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250 Class Electric Helicopters 250 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


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Old 12-19-2010, 12:32 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default who runs governor with your 250?

I have almost 60 flights on my copterX, and almost 40 of these flights were just hovering
inside or in my backyard adjusting the tail trying to make it not wag.

In the past I avoided governor modes since they often induced tail wag. Just for grins I
enabled governor mode on my 250 (3300rpm in normal mode, 3500rpm idle1, and 3700rpm idle2).
All of a sudden, my tail wag was drastically reduced. I was running my gyro (ltc2100) at 30%
and was still getting wag. With governor enabled, I got a similar wag at 60% gain, but almost
no wag at 50%. (For comparison, I run my 4g6 at 90%, diablo-450 at 60% (also a ltc2100 gyro)).

Perhaps the rotating mass of the 250 is light enough that tail pitch changes affects the instantaneous
rpm, and inducing tail wag, and the governor somehow manages to keep a steady rpm for the tail
servo/gyro to do their job?

Whatever the theory, I may not get to fly it outside for a few days since the forecast is for rain, rain, and
more rain.
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Old 12-19-2010, 09:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I run the CC Phoenix 25 with Set RPM, love it!
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Old 12-20-2010, 08:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Any different if I set governor on and flat throttle curve?
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Old 12-21-2010, 12:07 AM   #4 (permalink)
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With a flat throttle curve, your headspeed will fluctuate depending on the load, such as changes in collective
or tail pitch. A governor tries to modulate the throttle to keep your headspeed constant even when
the load is changing. A good governor keeps your headspeed steady, a bad governor can make your
headspeed oscillate up and down, which is worse than a flat throttle.
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Old 12-21-2010, 01:38 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I am quite tempted to try, what rpm would you recommend to set - I have stock motor and stock pinion. CC 25 ESC.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:00 AM   #6 (permalink)
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here is my CC25 settings
Attached Files
File Type: pdf CC25250heli.pdf (35.4 KB, 160 views)
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:49 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Here are my settings with the Scorpion 3600KV motor...

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Old 12-21-2010, 10:17 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks guys. I assume both are for scorpion? I'll experiment with governor this week and see what happens

CC25 doesn't have data logging, does it?
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Old 12-21-2010, 10:47 AM   #9 (permalink)
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For Info, I run StarCruiser's settings on mine but I had to dial the Gov gain down to 15. Idle-up 2 is insane, It's like a dragonfly on crack.
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:02 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Would a beginner pilot benefit from this?
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Old 12-22-2010, 03:56 PM   #11 (permalink)
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He Starcruiser! Will I be needing an usb link to implement your exact settings or can I use my TX? Thanks
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Old 12-22-2010, 04:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
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RPM will vary with a flat curve, as the load changes with pitch and cyclic changes.

"U" shaped curves with cyclic to throttle mixing works well.

The newer governor on the Castle speed controls works well to (I have used it with good results on a 450, but have not yet tried it on a 250).
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Last edited by Ah Clem; 12-22-2010 at 10:57 PM..
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Old 12-22-2010, 05:22 PM   #13 (permalink)
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You need the USB link
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Old 12-22-2010, 08:07 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photocycler View Post
Would a beginner pilot benefit from this?
It depends on what you mean beginner. If you're working on hovering and orientations then probably won't be of much use to you IMO. If your working on inverted and flips and rolls then it would be of use..

If you fly around in Idle up all the time, it couldn't hurt, you could just dial the speeds settings down from Starcruiser's settings. Realize when setting the speed settings, that not only do higher headspeeds bring better performance they can also cause more damage in a crash.
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Old 12-22-2010, 08:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photocycler View Post
Would a beginner pilot benefit from this?
Why not. As long as you have an ESC that has a good governor, it just seems easier to me.

Back in the "bad old days", trying to adjust my throttle curve (on a glow engine) to approximate constant head speed was always the holy grail for the setup. Now you just set the desired rpm. What can be easier? No throttle curves to screw around with. Just a constant rotor speed throughout the flight--no battery drop off to constantly battle.

Of course you are evening out the power during the flight, so no spike of power at the beginning and no drop off at the end.
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Old 12-22-2010, 08:37 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ah Clem View Post
RPM will vary with a flat curve, as the load changes with pitch and cyclic changes.

"U" shaped curves with cyclic to throttle mixing works well.

I use a very small "v" , and the 250 drive train seems to work well with it. Is it "U" curve now that's better?

The newer governor on the Castle speed controls works well to (I have used it with good results on a 450, but have not yet tried it on a 450).
huh? Are you something? share to care?
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Old 12-22-2010, 09:40 PM   #17 (permalink)
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pitchp,

Smoking something?

Sorry, no.

If you run a "V"curve, you are going to have a steeper, sharper throttle reaction, and not always what you need to keep constant RPM. You want the throttle to change at a slower rate around center, and more rapidly as you get toward the higher pitch settings (the rate of increase in load/drag as you increase the collective is not a linear function. A small amount of pitch change around zero degrees of pitch does not increase the drag as much as a small amount near full collective pitch.

If you run a Spektrum radio (DX7 or above), or a JR Radio, all you need do is to go to the Throttle Curve screen and activate "Expo" (which is not really expo but will smooth out the "V" into a nice gentle "U".

The other thing that helps is to add Cyclic to Throttle Mixing (cyclic loads the motor more than most people think).


This video is getting old, and my flying is boring, but note that the RPM on the helicopter stays relatively constant, no matter what it is doing:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS4CvMsl19I[/ame]

The constant RPM makes it much easier to do smooth aerobatics and the tail never blows out.
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Old 12-22-2010, 09:59 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ah Clem View Post
pitchp,

..<snip>...

The constant RPM makes it much easier to do smooth aerobatics and the tail never blows out.

+1

I am always amazed at the misperception that a lot of guys have about their pitch curves. They don't seem to understand that a constant 85-85-85-85 or 100-100-100-100 (or choose the favorite value) doesn't give a constant rpm (no governor).

I think a lot is that they just don't understand how an electric motor works--or even a good governor. I will say that the electric motor is a lot simpler than a glow setup. To some extent the reason is that electric has made heli's a lot simpler than they were in the "good" old glow days.

Just my 2 cents, and I don't really mean to be putting anyone down.--Honestly!
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Old 12-22-2010, 10:38 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Take 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ah Clem View Post
(I have used it with good results on a 450, but have not yet tried it on a 450).
huh?


That's the part I'm confused at.
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Old 12-22-2010, 10:55 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahahn View Post
+1

I am always amazed at the misperception that a lot of guys have about their pitch curves. They don't seem to understand that a constant 85-85-85-85 or 100-100-100-100 (or choose the favorite value) doesn't give a constant rpm (no governor).

I think a lot is that they just don't understand how an electric motor works--or even a good governor. I will say that the electric motor is a lot simpler than a glow setup. To some extent the reason is that electric has made heli's a lot simpler than they were in the "good" old glow days.

Just my 2 cents, and I don't really mean to be putting anyone down.--Honestly!
flat curve with no gov. I don't recommend. Yes there are a few people here running with that setup. However I run a small v curve with no gov.

This topic has been discussed before, allow me to shed some light. The V-curve

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...=74262&page=15


But i'm willing to try out Ah Clems "U" curve, I hope it's good. Thank you Ah Clem.
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