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250 Class Electric Helicopters 250 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


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Old 07-12-2012, 05:07 PM   #181 (permalink)
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Have just read this tread from A-Z and i have never seen so many different solutions for the same basic problem(my problem also after todays flight ) Tbh it doesnīt make sense unless The 250 is badly built and wants to wag its tail as soon as any small bit of wear or vibration appears even extremly minor , I see a lot of hitech solutions which somtimes work and sometimes donīt and i am wondering if we have all failed to see a common failing maybe a very small thing which has been fixed while replacing, upgrading or repairing other stuff.Or maybe it takes a combination of 1 ,2 or even 3 small problems to get the wag and fixing just 1 of them stops it until something new crops up.


Well i know i will be starting my bug search in the lowtech solution department this hobby is expensive enough without throwing massive amounts of cash away on hunches
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:06 PM   #182 (permalink)
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It's a tiny heli with as much slop in its various linkages (including the tail blades) as a heli twice the size. Get that slop out (start with the tail blade slop) and if necessary buy a fast MKS DS95i tail servo and you should be OK. Or just sell your 250 and get an LAHeli 300-size if you like small birds.
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Old 07-14-2012, 10:52 PM   #183 (permalink)
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Default Low gain

I have a Spartan Quark matched with a JR 290G tail (1520us, 333hz). I have moved the ball in to 4.5mm. I had a pretty bad wag that developed after a few flights, and replaced the bearings, and now it's basically gone, but I still cannot raise the gain on my DX6i past 56 without issues, and to have no wag has to be about 54.5.

This works fine for me while hovering, since it actually holds quite well, but as soon as I jam the sticks or go inverted or anything, the tail kicks out a good 4 to 5 inches before bouncing back, or just stays out, which makes maneuvers a little challenging.

I just cannot figure out how anyone can put gain to 60 or even up to 70.
Tail has NO binding at all. Modded everything to slide perfectly. Tail belt is not overly tight, main blades spin freely, tail blades tight, no noticeable head vibration.
V2 tail I think. Just 1 bearing, no weights.
4260 rpm headspeed according to audio frequency analysis.

Has anyone here experienced something similar, or knows what the issue might be?
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Last edited by Airman0386; 07-15-2012 at 02:02 PM..
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Old 07-15-2012, 06:56 PM   #184 (permalink)
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I just read a different post about gain settings on 250, and found where Finless Bob said he prefers to use the Travel Adjust gyro settings rather than the 'gyro' menu settings, and so I figured i'd give it a shot.

I think this method is the better of the two, since it has higher resolution, and I was able to get my gain relatively high before wag. I got to 30 and stopped there, for fear of getting a wag, but that makes me feel a lot better than flying at 54.5 in the gyro menu.

So, if anyone is curious, the Travel Adjust Gyro setting seems to work better for me.
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Old 07-15-2012, 11:32 PM   #185 (permalink)
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I think on Quark manual, it says, 7mm distance for ball link. It works for me.
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:08 AM   #186 (permalink)
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Yes but on rcguide or somewhere I saw your gain is only at 18%!
Doesn't the tail then kick out really bad during 3D?
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:15 AM   #187 (permalink)
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I lubed up the belt on mine, to see if it would help with the wagging I was having. Flew pack one no wag. I was so happy, I almost cried. Got my second battery on it, started wagging like it always did. Makes me want to beat the heli with a hammer.
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:47 AM   #188 (permalink)
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18% that's when I use 780. The 780 won't work on my Gaui. No matter what tape I use, I never get it right. Then I use GA250. It works beautifully. GA250 like high gain.
Just recently I use Quark and Corona servo. The gain is 22 (true gain). Above that will wag at high rpm. Very little kick at pitch pump.
BTW, I do not do 3D.
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:59 PM   #189 (permalink)
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Hi all,
A week ago I bought a 250 Pro super combo (GP790 and DS420 on tail) which, paired to a DX8, works kind of good at a true gain value of 32%. With "kind of good" I mean that if I give full pitch up from hover, the tail kicks about 30 degrees away from the center before coming back.
If I increase the gain (went up to 70% true gain to test) what happens is that in hovering the tail stays solid, it vastly reduces the kick on pumps but after any rudder input the tail first bounces a bit and then starts wagging (the speed of the wag is determined by the gain value).
If I land and take off again the tail is fine until the next rudder input.

Ok, now the very noob question:

Is normally the wag triggered by rudder inputs or is it a behaviour that appears consistently from take off to landing?

The reason I am asking this is to understand if what I am experiencing is "common tail wag", or if instead it is something unusual (which requires a different approach).

Thanks all
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:32 AM   #190 (permalink)
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Interesting question! For me, it was a persistent tail wag all the time. I think most of the posts in this thread are to address a constant and persistent tail wag that is present from take-off to landing (or crash).
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:58 PM   #191 (permalink)
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It's an oscillation, and like all oscillations, if it's on the edge of oscillating, a stick input can set it off. After that the oscillations may dampen out, keep going, or get worse. It all depends on the gains, response times, and feedback in the system.

This has to be the longest running thread on the 250 forum--not a good reflection on Align's engineering on this little bird...
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:37 PM   #192 (permalink)
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Has the carbon fiber boom helped anyone?
I was getting a wag that was in phase with something. So I held the boom while spooling up, and when I let go of the boom, wag in phase with a vibrational mode.

Grab the boom again, no wag.

So I was curious if a CF boom would fix this.
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:02 PM   #193 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airman0386 View Post
I was curious if a CF boom would fix this.
Probably not.
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:57 AM   #194 (permalink)
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Default What is the Heim fix?

Not only probably not, but I can attest to absolutely no difference in performance. Can someone please tell me where to get these counter weighted tail grips? All I see on the HH site are the metal, are these them? I am ordering the MH aluminum grips to see if that helps and if someone can also please help with the heim something or other that is supposed to be a fix. I am in the dark about that one.
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:40 AM   #195 (permalink)
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> Can someone please tell me where to get these counter weighted tail grips?
Search for HFer "heimjoint" (or is it "heim_joint") and some threads should come up. PM him for more information. Watch his vids.
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:33 AM   #196 (permalink)
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Add another tally to the "new servo fixed wag" list...

Put the JR 3500G servo on instead of the JR DS290G, and the wag went away. Holds great, just slight kick out on pitch pump, but no wag anymore.
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:12 AM   #197 (permalink)
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I'm running my T-Rex 250 Pro DFC completely stock except for the Microbeast.
I've done a couple of hours on lubricating the tail and keeping all joints free from Loctite. Only lubricant used is a light PTFE spray, no grease.

The tail is solid and locked in, no wags at all.

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Old 10-08-2012, 10:49 AM   #198 (permalink)
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After flying my 250 DFC completely stock for a couple of months, it finally developed some tail wag. I set up the tail at neutral on normal mode and did not help. The flimsy pushrod along with a mediocre tail servo affected the tail hold.

I reinforced the push rod with a 3 mm cf tube and got a MKS DS95i tail servo. Problem solved. Tail is rock solid and the heli has become a new bird. The remedy was expensive, but I once again enjoy my 250. The 425 servo is simply a bad option for this bird.
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Old 10-09-2012, 02:04 AM   #199 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chep View Post
After flying my 250 DFC completely stock for a couple of months, it finally developed some tail wag. I set up the tail at neutral on normal mode and did not help. The flimsy pushrod along with a mediocre tail servo affected the tail hold.

I reinforced the push rod with a 3 mm cf tube and got a MKS DS95i tail servo. Problem solved. Tail is rock solid and the heli has become a new bird. The remedy was expensive, but I once again enjoy my 250. The 425 servo is simply a bad option for this bird.
Does the DS95i fit the servo holder?
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:20 PM   #200 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinguin View Post
Does the DS95i fit the servo holder?
Yes, it fits the DFC servo tray perfectly. You need to remove the four servo screws and the top part of the servo to installing it. It's really easy to do. I'll post a picture when I get home.
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