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250 Class Electric Helicopters 250 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


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Old 03-06-2013, 05:16 PM   #221 (permalink)
 
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Despite everything, I did get the EXI tail assembly. Its a very nice piece for $23. Only thing is I used the Align tail pitch slider and control arm thing - perfect combo. And, dispite all odds, the $13 gyro holds up pretty well for its price. I had a little tail wag at first but turned the gain down a bit (had it set at 70%!) and it worked great. No wag. Will report a bit later with an update.
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:29 PM   #222 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chep View Post
This is the best money I've ever spent. No doubt about it! This servo and a CF pushrod = match in heaven!
I've just done the same and its as different as night and day, now my tail is rock solid
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:29 AM   #223 (permalink)
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I purchased a brand new and already fully assembled (by someone else)Trex 250 DFC with the stock motor and servos (i.e. the DS425 for the tail). At first, I got severe tail wag that was more or less controlled by reducing the gain from 70 to 60 percent (on a DX6i radio).

The performance was tolerable but not to my full satisfaction.

So, I did what many have done here and installed the MKS DS95i servo for the tail and the tail wag is now history. Now I get rock solid performance just like my Trex 450 Pro V1. Now I have been able to increase the 250's gyro gain to 68.

I have equipped both with the AR7200BX flybarless system.

Yes, it's an expensive servo but it's worth every cent.
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:42 AM   #224 (permalink)
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I am using KST215MG tail servo along with CF tail control rod - perfect. No tail wag with stock sloppy tail grip.
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:53 PM   #225 (permalink)
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Default Tail Wag Cures

Just a quick note to say... The 250 can be flawless!

My set up is stock pro DFC super combo except using ds95i for rudder, using CC25 for esc/no ext bec, and my tail pushrod is using TWO guides instead of just the one Align provides in the kit, spaced @ 1/3 and 2/3rds down the boom & glued. Flying in heading lock @ 65 gain. Carbon fiber tail, white plastic Align main blades.

I'm too new to speak to 3D, maybe one day... But for now I can tell you the hover, pitch pumps and piros are like it's on rails.

Even hovers hands off if no wind, dead still.

Great bird, if you are on the fence get one! I will say you have to be very type A with set up--particularly blade balance, pitch, and swash. I crashed it when first built and when rebuilding, I was much more meticulous. Pays off.

(It was my first cp and was too nervous of crashing again so ended up getting an mcpxbl and fly that daily in yard to practice orientation. Fly the 250 on the weekends at a local school.)

Anyway, always nice to hear a thumbs up sometimes... So for those frustrated I'm this thread with wag, it can be Eliminated.


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Old 04-08-2013, 07:38 AM   #226 (permalink)
 
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I am converting to Tarot ZYX FBL so I'll see how that turns out. I may get an Align metal bell crank for the tail though.
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:44 AM   #227 (permalink)
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Hi All.

Built a Copterx 250 recently and had the same wag at low gain problem. Looks like Im far from alone. Was fairly impressed with the kit in general but the head and tail parts where just rubbish. Had massive amount of play. So have now upgraded to align DFC head, align tail and align carbon main blades. Looks like the new align tails are weighted. Maybe to simulate the Chinese tail weights that are written about above.

So done most of the tricks, shorter 37mm cut down tail blades, moved rudder servo horn into 5.5mm which is the closet I can find. Might have to make a new hole.
Currently only got a Emax 8g tail servo I think $4 servo so guessing that is a problem. Ordered the MKS DS95i which I should have tomorrow. Looks like they are the best. Certainly fairly impressive specs. Cost more than the copter x Kit. So much for a cheap heli. Knew that one was going to bite me.

With the couple of changes I made I did manage to get the gain on the 3GX unit from about 15 to 30 with out wag. Tail is still drifting and no where near locked in.

Moving the servo horn in does give you the chance to up the tail gain but seems to need increasing as the horn get smaller to keep up. I actually got the tail almost locked in with it out wide. Seemed to be more than with double the gain on the shorter horn.

Anyway going to make my own hole in the round servo horn so I can also get it 90 deg with zero trim. Might be better than the 30 points I needed to get it square now. Maybe another reason for the drift.

Will let you know how I go.
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Old 06-16-2013, 12:37 PM   #228 (permalink)
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Default T-Rex 250 Pro DFC Super Combo Tail-wag Fix

I eliminated severe tailwag by doing 2 simple things. 1) Tighten the main-blade & tail-blade grips more than you would think you should & lock-tight the bolts. They WILL loosen, if you don't. 2) Remove every single bolt in the tail-drive assembly, 1-by-1. Put lock-tight on every 1 of them & run them back in BUT, DO NOT TORQUE THEM DOWN. Tighten them only enough to eliminate excessive free-play but leave them loose enough that everything slides VERY easily & smoothly. Absolutely no tail-wag!!! Before I did this, the tail-wag would get so severe that it scared the [email protected]#t out of me. I had to put her down really quick a few times before she tore herself apart!
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Old 06-23-2013, 09:31 AM   #229 (permalink)
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So I fixed my wag on my new 250 DFC the obvious way: rebuild the complete tail with proper use of loctite and tri-flow. Also sanded down a few parts like the shaft and the small links.

The wag I had is gone (65% gyro gain on my Futaba T8FG) now. On the other hand, when I do pitch pumps the tail kicks out a few inches, but then recovers quickly. I'm not sure if this is normal. When I go to 70% gain, I get the wag back again.

CF tail, CF pushrod, stock Align servos & electronics, BEC at 5.1v.
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Old 06-23-2013, 10:39 AM   #230 (permalink)
 
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Default Tail Wag Cures

Try 6v


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Old 06-24-2013, 01:22 AM   #231 (permalink)
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65 of gain for HH mode, seems too high. Usually it will be around 32, no more then 40.

Are you using Align gyro?
If the tail kick, it could be the servo. Need a faster servo.
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Old 06-24-2013, 07:25 AM   #232 (permalink)
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Quote:
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65 of gain for HH mode, seems too high. Usually it will be around 32, no more then 40.

Are you using Align gyro?
If the tail kick, it could be the servo. Need a faster servo.
Agree, I use 35 for HH mode with BeastX. It only has little wag during the right aileron flight.
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:40 AM   #233 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinguin View Post
65 of gain for HH mode, seems too high. Usually it will be around 32, no more then 40.

Are you using Align gyro?
If the tail kick, it could be the servo. Need a faster servo.
I don't know how the OP's Tx works, but the gain setting on a DX6i is not a direct indication of the actual gain, given that a gain of 50 equates to zero and the conversion factor is 1.44. So a gain of 65 equates to (65-50)*1.44 = 21.6%. I assume something similar on the OP's Futaba

Last edited by Besen; 06-24-2013 at 10:43 AM.. Reason: Additional clarification
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:09 PM   #234 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Intergalactic View Post
Try 6v


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I will try that, but I heard that having a lower voltage helps since the servo will be slower and thus might cause less tail wag. But on the other hand you will have a tail kicking out when the servo is too slow. Like I havenow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinguin View Post
65 of gain for HH mode, seems too high. Usually it will be around 32, no more then 40.

Are you using Align gyro?
If the tail kick, it could be the servo. Need a faster servo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcc014 View Post
Agree, I use 35 for HH mode with BeastX. It only has little wag during the right aileron flight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Besen View Post
I don't know how the OP's Tx works, but the gain setting on a DX6i is not a direct indication of the actual gain, given that a gain of 50 equates to zero and the conversion factor is 1.44. So a gain of 65 equates to (65-50)*1.44 = 21.6%. I assume something similar on the OP's Futaba
So I thank all of you for the feedback but Besen is right. You can't just compare Gyro gains like that. I said I have a Futuba for a reason: because I think the gain on Futaba is different than Spektrum. Not sure though.

Ok, so I looked at this a bit more and I think I know the difference:

On Spektrum, the gain is 1 to 100 (Heading Hold mode) and -1 to -100 (Rate mode)
On Futaba, the gain is 1 to 50 (Rate mode) and 51 to 100 (Heading Hold mode).

So when I'm at 65% on my Futaba, this would translate to (65-50)*2=30% on Spektrum. This compares well to your reported 35% and 32%.

The problem is if I go over more than 65% I get a tail wag.
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:46 PM   #235 (permalink)
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I found with 250's the best way to set gyro gain in something like the DX6i is to INH the 'GYRO' menu, and control gyro gain through the Gyro Travel Adjust setting. I typically run about 26-30.

The most important things for wag/tail kick are:
1) Smooth as silk tail, including bearings. They might not feel bad, but if they are seizing at all during the centripetal loading you get wag.
2) Good servo
3) Good Gyro

I have had issues with various combos. The ones that work are nicer gyros (beastx, or even beastx clones), and a mini size tail servo, or a DS95i... (I run a JR3500G).
The cheap gyros and slower servos REALLY struggle with 250s.
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:42 PM   #236 (permalink)
 
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What are some BeastX clones?
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:21 PM   #237 (permalink)
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the hobbycool hb800 or the Bigaole.
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:44 PM   #238 (permalink)
 
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Are they decent?
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:54 PM   #239 (permalink)
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I view it like this:

If you have the money to afford the genuine thing, do it. It is definitely better, and worth supporting the actual people developing these great things.

If there is no way you can afford a $200 gyro, buy one used.

If you cannot possibly afford the used one, the higher quality clones do alright. Robirds are pretty good too in that price range. Even the zyx v4.0.

But seriously, the better gyros cost the $ because they ARE better and have had hours and hours go into the development.

And in answer to your question, yes they're decent. I have 3...
and to stay on topic, they hold the tail nice. (matched with a nice servo)
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:57 AM   #240 (permalink)
 
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True. However, I'm thinking of buying the 300X sometime, then I can have a nice 3D platform, then when I want a bigger heli I can transfer the AR7200BX to that.
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