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Mikado V-BAR Mikado V-Stabi/V-BAR Flybarless System Software and Hardware Support


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Old 11-24-2012, 10:53 AM   #81 (permalink)
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Thanks Justin will do.
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:18 AM   #82 (permalink)
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On a 12S Fusion 50, what are ball park ideal gain settings? IIRC, my gain slider is ~85, with I gain at 65 and p gain at stock. Precomps are lowered slightly, but I'm getting a very slight wag/tick in hover, and it kicks out a 5-10 degrees when flicking into idle one.
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:42 AM   #83 (permalink)
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hello friend...im still having tail wag after several setting and still dont solve the problem...the heli was good when hovering and also get tail lock..but after i make fast turn the tail start to wag and i cant counter so i turn the hold switch and landing my heli..last setting was

gyro gain : 84
yaw rate : 98

rc deadband : 5
acceleration : 60
p gain : 73
I gain : 73
stop gain A : 20
stop gain B : 20

collective : 13
cyclic : 3
zero col. : 0
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:38 AM   #84 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armscofield View Post
hello friend...im still having tail wag after several setting and still dont solve the problem...the heli was good when hovering and also get tail lock..but after i make fast turn the tail start to wag and i cant counter so i turn the hold switch and landing my heli..last setting was

gyro gain : 84
yaw rate : 98

rc deadband : 5
acceleration : 60
p gain : 73
I gain : 73
stop gain A : 20
stop gain B : 20

collective : 13
cyclic : 3
zero col. : 0
What heli are you flying that would help.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:24 AM   #85 (permalink)
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Hi..i fly gaui x7...motor align 750mx 530kv ...cyclic and tail servo is servoking 695hv
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:19 PM   #86 (permalink)
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hello justin,
i wonder if you can help me...
when i tic-toc upright the tail slightly moves ccw. it is like if the tail rotor couldn`t counter act the main rotor torque. i don't see any problem in pitch pumps and sport flight, but i don't fly hard 3d. i wonder if you know how to solve this problem. it ruins my tic-tocs. does it has anything to do with torque precomp? do you have a suggestion for the settings of the trex 550 tail?
thanks a lot.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:40 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Pucci View Post
Guys,
After a great bit of conversation with Frederik aka MrMel, I've revised my previous comment in post #11 about reducing I-gain to eliminate wag in a punch-out. Note now that post #11 has been edited to state that you should increase I-gain instead.

This is due to the fact that an increase in I-gain should, in fact, have the effect of holding the tail more aggressively against the sudden torque change seen in a punch-out or similarly hard maneuver and it is unlikely that in the V5 firmware an excessively high I-gain would cause this behavior unless you're precomp is too high.
I am still somewhat confused. For example, I have a 450Pro on 3S, and I am trying to reduce tail kicking during punch-outs. First I tried MrMel's alternative starting point, P-gain 75, I-gain 75, Precomps 11 and 3. Defaults are 80, 60, 22, 9, but the tail started kicking horribly, almost 180 degrees at the most. So I increased Precomp collective to 28, without touching gains. That reduced the kick, but I am now getting into a rather violent wag +/- 45 after offloading the disk after a punch out. So I have gone back to the defaults, but not had a chance to test.

My question really is whether it's better to increase I-gain or Precomp to reduce tail kicks during punches, since these two according to the above have the same effect? They must however, act at least somewhat differently, or else there would not be a need to have both settings available to adjust.
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:37 AM   #88 (permalink)
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in one of his videos mr mel says that tail kicks during pitch-pumps may be due extremely powerful motors. they would produce too much torque for any tail gyro to counter act it in time.

Last edited by ReadyToCrash; 05-01-2013 at 10:52 AM..
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:29 AM   #89 (permalink)
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Yes, I saw that. I am not expecting it go away, just reduce it to a manageable level without introducing other problems. I just need to bring my laptop out and tweak the parameters. My question really was whether it's best to start tuning I-gain or Precomp.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:56 AM   #90 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n808 View Post
Yes, I saw that. I am not expecting it go away, just reduce it to a manageable level without introducing other problems. I just need to bring my laptop out and tweak the parameters. My question really was whether it's best to start tuning I-gain or Precomp.
i'd start with torque precomp since this parameter was made for it. according to mr mel (also in one of his videos) there is no recipe for solution. i mean, the right thing is not add too much or too little precomp. you need to try and find what works better for your heli. how many degrees is the tail kicking out?

also, in order to avoid any sort of cross interaction between parameters, i'd reset the tail settings to default. this way you can tweak precomp and check its actual affects only.
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Old 05-01-2013, 04:52 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Default V-Bar Tail Tuning and Troubleshooting Guide with Mikado Logo Example

Tail servo?
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:07 PM   #92 (permalink)
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today i learned something new about vbar (new to me, i mean). i was in the field and the heli was having a boring tail wag. i grabbed my mikado control panel and tried to reduce the tail gyro gain, but couldn't find it on the menu. then i tweaked the i and p-gain parameters and was able to reduce the wag. the tail also is holding much better now. so, i think changing those parameters will affect the tail gain and somehow how crispy the tail stops (despite knowing stop gain parameters are there).

if the tail is kicking out during pitch pumps, maybe precomp is really the one to mess with.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:14 PM   #93 (permalink)
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I brought my old netbook with me to the field for some 450Pro tail tuning, and it went pretty well.

First I went back to default I/P-gain 80/60 from MrMel's suggested 75/75, all other tail values set to default as well. Then I adjusted overall gain just below where it started to wag during FFF. This ended up at 75.

Then I worked on Precomp, bit by bit, had to go up to 31 from default 22. I did not go so far I had to back down again. This worked much better with my powerful battery, a Pulse 45C, which is why I had to start this process in the 1st place.

After Precomp tuning I had a small wag after offloading the disk which I got rid of by reducing I-gain from 60 to 55, and I had to back down overall gain from 75 to 70 to get rid of FFF wag that had come back. I can still push the tail out 60 degrees or so with sudden max torque pitch pump, and I was able to do the same doing very fast sideways loops with almost max aileron cyclic, but these maneuvers were more extreme than I would otherwise do except for these tuning/testing flights. A little more conservative tic-tocs and the tail was rock solid, much better than before I started the re-tuning process necessitated by a these couple of new batteries.

Servo: Align DS520 on 5V (Jazz BEC)
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Old 05-27-2013, 07:45 PM   #94 (permalink)
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i have a Alees Rush 700 which i had a ar7200bx on it at first and had 0 issues. i was talked into getting the almighty vbar. i have a mini vbar on my x5 and to be honest, it flies perfect. i have never touched a setting after the first few flights, it just flies perfect. Well, my Rush hasnt been so kind. I THINK i have a basic understanding on the pro setting, but it seems different people have different opinions on what to adjust when your tail is doing something wrong.
i understand each helicopter is going to be somewhat different, different motor, headspeed, tail blades, servos, and so on. i also have a friend who is about to sell his rush because he cant get the tail right.
lets start from yesterday, KDE 495, HW120 esc, 115mm tail blades, 2250 hs,my tail settings to start with were
65
75
75
20
20
collective 10
cyclic 9
gain slider at 74
so doing elevator tictocs my tail would kick right only during the stop of the tictoc.
tail in, flipping back toward you, and doing a full collective punch out my tail would get a small fast wag.
so for 6 batteries i flew, land, adjust, flew, land, adjust.
i came out with
65
55
70
30
30
collective 28
cyclic 9
gain slider at 69
now the numbers i came up with p gain seems low. does it matter what my number are, just as long as it flies well ? i have gone over my tail, and trust me, is like butter. i have a new protek 250 tail servo(problem was there before the new servo)
its getting to the point where im not enjoying being on the bench hooked to my lap top all the time. i just want to enjoy my helicopter.
so to go back to where you see i made adjustments, my understanding is P-gain is for wags or tail issues under hard maneuvers and I gain is for hovering or basic flight tail holding or issues. i adjusted my collective pre comp till i got the tail to kick left first during the tictoc and then came back till it stopped.
\sorry for being long winded, but i need to understand these better, in dept, so i can fix my issues and my buddies

thanks
mike
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Old 05-28-2013, 08:10 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:43 AM   #96 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectricSheep View Post
Glad to hear you're all fixed up now!

Re: the glue...
This is minor in the whole scheme of things, but I hated having to scrub off the leftover glue and servo tape/foam bits off the sensor tray and sensor...
The stock tape/foam bits come off quite easily with just a little heating with a hair dryer or heat gun. Just heat it up for 5 -10 seconds so it's warm but not too hot to touch and it will generally rub right off with your thumb.
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Old 05-29-2013, 02:03 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Default V-Bar Tail Tuning and Troubleshooting Guide with Mikado Logo Example

Use the 3m tape and you'll never have to scrape again!
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:48 AM   #98 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgeboy View Post
i have a Alees Rush 700 which i had a ar7200bx on it at first and had 0 issues. i was talked into getting the almighty vbar. i have a mini vbar on my x5 and to be honest, it flies perfect. i have never touched a setting after the first few flights, it just flies perfect. Well, my Rush hasnt been so kind. I THINK i have a basic understanding on the pro setting, but it seems different people have different opinions on what to adjust when your tail is doing something wrong.
i understand each helicopter is going to be somewhat different, different motor, headspeed, tail blades, servos, and so on. i also have a friend who is about to sell his rush because he cant get the tail right.
lets start from yesterday, KDE 495, HW120 esc, 115mm tail blades, 2250 hs,my tail settings to start with were
65
75
75
20
20
collective 10
cyclic 9
gain slider at 74
so doing elevator tictocs my tail would kick right only during the stop of the tictoc.
tail in, flipping back toward you, and doing a full collective punch out my tail would get a small fast wag.
so for 6 batteries i flew, land, adjust, flew, land, adjust.
i came out with
65
55
70
30
30
collective 28
cyclic 9
gain slider at 69
now the numbers i came up with p gain seems low. does it matter what my number are, just as long as it flies well ? i have gone over my tail, and trust me, is like butter. i have a new protek 250 tail servo(problem was there before the new servo)
its getting to the point where im not enjoying being on the bench hooked to my lap top all the time. i just want to enjoy my helicopter.
so to go back to where you see i made adjustments, my understanding is P-gain is for wags or tail issues under hard maneuvers and I gain is for hovering or basic flight tail holding or issues. i adjusted my collective pre comp till i got the tail to kick left first during the tictoc and then came back till it stopped.
\sorry for being long winded, but i need to understand these better, in dept, so i can fix my issues and my buddies

thanks
mike
Very useful mate, thanks. My stop gains and precomp values are very similar to yours so it's good to know I'm on the right track.
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:48 AM   #99 (permalink)
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I've run into a rather strange situation and would appreciate some help. Setup is Silverline Pro, Logo 550sx, YGE120lv, MKS HBL-669 tail servo. Mechanical setup is smooth.

So I start with default values: Common gain 90, P gain 80, I gain 60, and adjusted in the following order:

1. Have a slow to medium wag during hover, tried lowering each of the gains, made no difference, then strangely got rid of the wag by bumping P gain all the way UP to 120
2. Furious fast wag in funnels, can only eliminated by lowering common gain to 63
3. Then left with a slow wag again during hover, got rid of by lowering I gain to 55

So I'm left with common gain of 63, P gain of 120 and I gain of 55. These value (and the relationships between them) seem very strange compared to what fellow freaks have posted here. The tail holds ok, no wags, but holds not as good as I would like in pitch pumps and elevator tic tocs, certainty not as well compared to my Gaui X5 (tail is rock solid with just default values)

Any ideas? Can this be further optimized?

Thanks
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Old 07-24-2013, 04:36 AM   #100 (permalink)
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Hey,

from my experience with two vbar equipped birds: If you have a slow wag in hover with default settings, it comes down to either the servo (could be low quality or faulty in your case) or mechanical issues. On the Mikado board they speak about stick slip effect of the tail brass slider from time to time.
The fix is to free up the brass slider by either polishing the tail output shaft or removing tiny burrs of the brass sleeve (internal) with a round file...

If you fix this wag, I bet you can run more common settings.

Best of luck, Stefan
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