600e Pro Tail Blow Outs - Page 28 - HeliFreak
Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > 600 Class Electric Helicopters > 600 PRO Class Electric Helicopters


600 PRO Class Electric Helicopters 600 PRO Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-28-2016, 03:26 AM   #541
Grumpy_Old_Man
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Aberdeen, UK
Default

Thee 85mm blades would give you less thrust than two 95mm blades, so that would seem like a strange way to go?
If the object of the exercise is to increase the hold of the tail then I'd expect to have to use three blades of the same size as the two blade tail (95mm).. which should give a roughly 30% increase in tail thrust.
__________________
Gob 700 Speed | Gob 770 Carb. Comp | Gob 630 Comp | Trex 700X | KDS Agile 7.2 | Compass 7HV U | Trex 600Pro (626 stretch) | Kasama Dune 600 | KDS Chase 360 | Devil 420
Grumpy_Old_Man is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2016, 03:35 PM   #542
jmtyndall
Registered Users
 
Posts: 4,810
 

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Default

Didn't bother doing any sort of calcs. Sometimes going to a three blade setup necessitates dropping a blade size. Just an off-hand suggestion made while drinking a beer and eating dinner
__________________
[Prtos][Prtos Max V2][Brain Flybarless][DX9]
MSH USA/Brain Team Pilot
jmtyndall is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2016, 04:28 PM   #543
Grumpy_Old_Man
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Aberdeen, UK
Default

I'm an engineer, I have to do calcs!..

A quick fag-packet calc says you would loose some tail authority with a 3 blade 85mm tail over the standard two blade 95mm tail... So it would be a step backward on a heli already short of tail authority.
Three 95mm blades would be fine i'm sure. I run two 105mm blades on mine and it works great but needs a boom stretch to be safe.
__________________
Gob 700 Speed | Gob 770 Carb. Comp | Gob 630 Comp | Trex 700X | KDS Agile 7.2 | Compass 7HV U | Trex 600Pro (626 stretch) | Kasama Dune 600 | KDS Chase 360 | Devil 420
Grumpy_Old_Man is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2016, 05:33 PM   #544
Heli.Maniac
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,358
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Greece
Default

On other helis with 2 bladed tail and good tail ratio and blade size, doing a 3 bladed tail conversion would normally mean to either drop the tail ratio or go down on blade size. But on the 600 we want to increase the tail authority and keeping same blade size will probably bring us right at the sweet spot of available tail thrust even for lower headspeeds. Now for guys that frequently do headspeeds of 2400+ there may be some issues on the long term with material fatigue, especially the tail gears. Either way for headspeeds that high, tail authority doesn't seem to be an issue already so maybe a 3b conversion may not be worth it in those cases (except for bling factor).
__________________
Andreas (formerly known as anmatheextreme)
Compass 7HVU
Logo 600SX CF
Blade 450X

Last edited by Heli.Maniac; 09-01-2016 at 07:51 PM.. Reason: grammar error
Heli.Maniac is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2016, 02:56 PM   #545
apper001
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,009
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Switzerland
Default

Isn't there some maths/calc you can do to check main rpm, main thrust versus tail ratio, tail thrust to get a nice rpm range to fly with a secure tail all the time.

need to check that darkhorse calc...
apper001 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2016, 07:42 PM   #546
jmtyndall
Registered Users
 
Posts: 4,810
 

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy_Old_Man View Post
I'm an engineer, I have to do calcs!..

A quick fag-packet calc says you would loose some tail authority with a 3 blade 85mm tail over the standard two blade 95mm tail... So it would be a step backward on a heli already short of tail authority.
Three 95mm blades would be fine i'm sure. I run two 105mm blades on mine and it works great but needs a boom stretch to be safe.
Me too, but after work I just don't feel like doing any more haha
__________________
[Prtos][Prtos Max V2][Brain Flybarless][DX9]
MSH USA/Brain Team Pilot
jmtyndall is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2016, 06:25 PM   #547
cobieg
Registered Users
 
Posts: 866
 

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida, USA
Default

Is the nitro auto gear mod. being used in this config. If so could 85mm blades be used?
__________________
I didn't crash. I just ran out of airspeed, altitude, and idea's all at the same time.
cobieg is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2016, 01:11 PM   #548
Grumpy_Old_Man
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Aberdeen, UK
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobieg View Post
Is the nitro auto gear mod. being used in this config. If so could 85mm blades be used?
I'm not sure about the nitro gears but the gears from the older ESP version have been used which speed up the tail allowing stock 95mm tails to be used at less than screaming headspeed. You wouldnt want to use 85mm tails on a 600.
__________________
Gob 700 Speed | Gob 770 Carb. Comp | Gob 630 Comp | Trex 700X | KDS Agile 7.2 | Compass 7HV U | Trex 600Pro (626 stretch) | Kasama Dune 600 | KDS Chase 360 | Devil 420
Grumpy_Old_Man is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2016, 04:30 PM   #549
cobieg
Registered Users
 
Posts: 866
 

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy_Old_Man View Post
I'm not sure about the nitro gears but the gears from the older ESP version have been used which speed up the tail allowing stock 95mm tails to be used at less than screaming headspeed. You wouldnt want to use 85mm tails on a 600.
I was thinking of a scale model with lower head speed say, 1500 rpm.
I run my 4 blade scale 600 with the nitro/esp gear ( I think they are the same ) and have to use 105mm. The tail will try to come around on a hard collective input. I found out that it doesn't like tic-tocks! It does loops and rolls nice though.
__________________
I didn't crash. I just ran out of airspeed, altitude, and idea's all at the same time.
cobieg is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 04:45 PM   #550
lmpf14991
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Aveiro
Default

I have another blow out yestarday when doing a lopings whith my 600 pro efl. Did align solve this problem in the new 600x?
lmpf14991 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 06:38 PM   #551
Heli.Maniac
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,358
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Greece
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lmpf14991 View Post
I have another blow out yestarday when doing a lopings whith my 600 pro efl. Did align solve this problem in the new 600x?
AFAIK there is no 600X and the latest kit is the older 600L, which has the same tail gear ratio and tail blade size as the older 600E Pro kits. Still, there are some options to try to improve the tail performance on this model.
__________________
Andreas (formerly known as anmatheextreme)
Compass 7HVU
Logo 600SX CF
Blade 450X
Heli.Maniac is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2017, 11:53 AM   #552
lmpf14991
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Aveiro
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heli.Maniac View Post
AFAIK there is no 600X and the latest kit is the older 600L, which has the same tail gear ratio and tail blade size as the older 600E Pro kits. Still, there are some options to try to improve the tail performance on this model.
Hello.
What upgrades can i ude to get bet tail autority?
Tanks
Luis
lmpf14991 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2017, 12:10 PM   #553
Grumpy_Old_Man
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Aberdeen, UK
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lmpf14991 View Post
Hello.
What upgrades can i ude to get bet tail autority?
Tanks
Luis
A few options:
  1. Use the higher ratio Mod0.6 Auto and tail drive gears off the older 600ESP
  2. Do a mild 'stretch' using cut down 700e parts and fit 105mm tail blades
  3. Use the new three blade tail.
__________________
Gob 700 Speed | Gob 770 Carb. Comp | Gob 630 Comp | Trex 700X | KDS Agile 7.2 | Compass 7HV U | Trex 600Pro (626 stretch) | Kasama Dune 600 | KDS Chase 360 | Devil 420
Grumpy_Old_Man is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2017, 05:52 PM   #554
Heli.Maniac
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,358
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Greece
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy_Old_Man View Post
A few options:
  1. Do a mild 'stretch' using cut down 700e parts and fit 105mm tail blades
For milder flight styles, one can get away with just elongating the rear hole on the boom and sliding the tail case further just a little bit. That small extra clearance is enough to allow the use of 105mm tail blades with 600mm mains without causing any issues with the TT inside the boom. Up until decommissioning my 600E Pro a year ago, with this mod I could do hard 3D without any issues with blade interaction like in the past. It's just another relatively safe alternative for fixing tail authority issues.
__________________
Andreas (formerly known as anmatheextreme)
Compass 7HVU
Logo 600SX CF
Blade 450X
Heli.Maniac is offline        Reply With Quote
Reply




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Copyright © 2004-2016 by RCGroups.com, LLC except where otherwise indicated. The HeliFreak.com logo is a trademark of RCGroups.com, LLC.