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Finless Bob's Helifreak Tech Room Finless Bob's Helifreak Tech Room - Tips and how-To Videos


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Old 05-17-2007, 04:41 PM   #1
Finless
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Default Castle Pheonix 85HV setup Videos

OK guys and Gals... as part of my Raptor e620 build I used a Castle Creations HV85. I have to tell you what a GREAT ESC this is IF you set it up right!

Special thanks to Clint Akins for helping me understand how best to get ths video series done and some details about the ESC and how it works!

I hope this helps you all out,
Bob

Part 1: Initial heli setting on the bench
VIDEO -> Castle 85HV initial settings for a Helicopter (70 Megs)

UPDATED 5/30/2007
Part 2: Setting up in the field, reading head speed, and setting up governor!
VIDEO -> Castle 85HV In the Field setup and governor (39 Megs)

UPDATED 5/30/2007
Part 3: My final settings and radio setup for governor use
VIDEO -> Castle 85HV Final settings discussion and Radio Setup (40 Megs)

ADDED 5/30/2007
Flight Test... Hey I am no hot 3D pilot but I think this vid shows how well Gov mode works!
VIDEO -> Castle 85HV Flight test (23 Megs)


Let me know if this helps you out

Bob

Last edited by Finless; 10-16-2007 at 07:03 PM..
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Old 05-17-2007, 05:03 PM   #2
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Hi Bob

Just to let you know that I'm at the finishing stages on my E550, after watching your videos I went out and bought the castle 85HV and Logitech Gyro great videos !!...By the way are you using a 5v reg for your rudder servo ?
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Old 05-17-2007, 05:09 PM   #3
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Yes... I have the Align 6V reg but YES I am using the drop down for the tail servo.

Bob
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Old 05-17-2007, 05:31 PM   #4
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Hi again Bob

This is general question regarding Esc's that has always played on my mind, which is. when would I need to remove the red wire from any Esc ?

Many thanks

Solomon
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Old 05-17-2007, 05:37 PM   #5
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SO far i have seen vid 2 (gov setup at the field) and its good watching.

What was the purpose of the 75% throttle setting ? is it an arbitary % or do they need to be there.

Now watched both, good stuff. 75% seems very low, ie leaves lots of headroom. Is that a castle number or a trial and error thing?

OK, i searched the CC forum and found the 75% is their number, all good now. Looks like i will need to keep an eye on my HV 85's even though they are running great.
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Old 05-17-2007, 07:22 PM   #6
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Another great video Bob!!! Your video and Clint's really help me setup my CC Phoenix 110hv.
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Old 05-17-2007, 07:48 PM   #7
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75 is a "guide line" and you can go as high as 85% based on testing Clint and I have done. Bottom line having GOOD headroom for your ESC to manage gov mode is the key. YOUR mileage will vary depending on your gearing etc.
Now that I have shared the basics please play around a little and find YOUR sweet spot.
In the end having 90% to 100% throttle curve means you really are NOT using a gov! It NEEDS head room and you have to gear your heli to get best performance.

Bob
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Old 05-17-2007, 07:51 PM   #8
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Quote:
This is general question regarding Esc's that has always played on my mind, which is. when would I need to remove the red wire from any Esc ?
Well ONLY if your ESC has a BEC and then this may NOT be a standard among all manufacturers... USUALLY however if an ESC does not also have a BES then the red wire does NOT need to be cut. However if the ESC does have a BEC and you want to run a regulator or other BEC THEN you MUST cur the red wire from the ESC...

Look if you unsure and dont know... just CUT the red wire from the ESC if your going to run a separate BEC...

Got it?

Bob
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Old 05-17-2007, 09:47 PM   #9
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If you don't want to cut the wire on your esc you could also attach a extension and cut the wire on the extension. Down side would be that you are adding more wire to your bird.

If you don't mind the work another thing you could do is take the wires out of the servo connector and fold the red wire back and heat shrink it to the other wires. Then reconnect the other wires back into the servo connector. You have to take note of where the other wires go before you start, make sure you know which wire goes where and be careful not to break the tabs in the connector.

Sorry Bob didn't mean to thread jack.
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Old 05-18-2007, 07:32 AM   #10
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The dx7 does have a throttle cut. They call it throttle recovery. page 72 in manual.
It's really kinda wierd. I don't know if it work for what you want.

I actually am curious if you like flying with the govenor? I have never flown that way.
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Old 05-18-2007, 08:31 AM   #11
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Quote:
The dx7 does have a throttle cut. They call it throttle recovery. page 72 in manual.
It's really kinda wierd. I don't know if it work for what you want.

I actually am curious if you like flying with the govenor? I have never flown that way.
Hmmm I will have to see how that works!

As for flying with GOV I never have used it either until now. The code updates Castle has made really made gov mode work well. I LOVE IT or I would not have shot the video showing how to set it up! I highly reccomend you try it if your running a CC and have a Castle Link.

Bob
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Old 05-18-2007, 01:44 PM   #12
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I have a dumb question... whats the little red light on the ESC for?
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Old 05-18-2007, 10:53 PM   #13
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Cool vids, thanks for posting them! I must not be understanding something, because I think there was a flaw in your logic. Let me try to explain.

You spooled up to 75% throttle using "heli fixed endpoint" and indicated 1860 HS. In other words, with your current battery/motor/gearing combo, 1860 HS required approx 75% of the max available power.

You then changed to governor mode, and went straight to 75% again, got 2050 HS, and called that good. But 2050 represented more than 75% of the available power as discovered in the first step! If I understand correctly, you should have reduced your throttle in governor mode until you achieved 1860 HS again. For the sake of argument, lets say you discovered 65% throttle in governor mode gave you that. In that case you would have set your idle up throttle curves to around 65%.

The point being, governor throttle % is not linear to fixed endpoint throttle %. That's the whole reason for spooling up the heli in fixed end point mode first, to find that relationship. By setting your governor throttle to 75% you were getting closer to 100% max power than ideal (assuming 75% is ideal, later you said up to 85% was OK, but for my argument here that's beside the point :wink: )

If you really wanted 2050 HS, you should have changed your gearing (or motor/battery) to get that HS within the acceptable throttle % while in fixed endpoint mode. That would mean while in governor mode, it would have enough head room under load to increase power.

I imagine though (now that I've taken the time to think through and write this all out) you may have found 2050 HS was around 85% throttle in fixed endpoint, and was still within the acceptable 75% to 85% range. I just wanted to make sure I understood this correctly and clarified that if 75% max power was really your goal, your governor throttle position should have been set lower.

I hope that made sense. If I'm totally off base, feel free to flog me and put me back in my place. Either way, you're still my hero

Thanks,
Jason
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Old 05-18-2007, 10:53 PM   #14
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It comes on when your at or near 100% throttle. Thats how I remember it.

Bob
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Old 05-18-2007, 11:50 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhirlingBladesOfDeath
Cool vids, thanks for posting them! I must not be understanding something, because I think there was a flaw in your logic. Let me try to explain.

You spooled up to 75% throttle using "heli fixed endpoint" and indicated 1860 HS. In other words, with your current battery/motor/gearing combo, 1860 HS required approx 75% of the max available power.

You then changed to governor mode, and went straight to 75% again, got 2050 HS, and called that good. But 2050 represented more than 75% of the available power as discovered in the first step! If I understand correctly, you should have reduced your throttle in governor mode until you achieved 1860 HS again. For the sake of argument, lets say you discovered 65% throttle in governor mode gave you that. In that case you would have set your idle up throttle curves to around 65%.

The point being, governor throttle % is not linear to fixed endpoint throttle %. That's the whole reason for spooling up the heli in fixed end point mode first, to find that relationship. By setting your governor throttle to 75% you were getting closer to 100% max power than ideal (assuming 75% is ideal, later you said up to 85% was OK, but for my argument here that's beside the point :wink: )

If you really wanted 2050 HS, you should have changed your gearing (or motor/battery) to get that HS within the acceptable throttle % while in fixed endpoint mode. That would mean while in governor mode, it would have enough head room under load to increase power.

I imagine though (now that I've taken the time to think through and write this all out) you may have found 2050 HS was around 85% throttle in fixed endpoint, and was still within the acceptable 75% to 85% range. I just wanted to make sure I understood this correctly and clarified that if 75% max power was really your goal, your governor throttle position should have been set lower.

I hope that made sense. If I'm totally off base, feel free to flog me and put me back in my place. Either way, you're still my hero

Thanks,
Jason
I will give my feeling on this... I think Bob is just trying to say leave room for the govoner to do it's job. About 75% to 85% around their. If it came out to be 72% or 86% no big deal. You just don't want it so high it's maxing out the ESC or so low it's straining the piss out of it and needs to be regeared.

As for he whole 1860 and 2050RPM thing... their are variables in everything you do. Some things are not written in concrete.

Just my .02
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Old 05-19-2007, 11:16 AM   #16
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WhirlingBladesOfDeath

Thats not how it works.... Throttle end point mode is not really linear and 75 in that mode is probably like 60 in gov.
This is how it was explained to Clint by Castle and how he explained it to me.

Take it or leave it. I will show you a flying vid later that will show you how well gov is working and I am running 13/13 pitch

BTW go to castle page and downloads and read the castle link read me file. Says the same thing

Bob
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Old 05-19-2007, 02:14 PM   #17
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I guess I don't see how measuring the 1860 HS in fixed mode was used when setting your throttle position in governor mode ?

How would your setup have changed if you had measured 1760 or 1960 in fixed at 75% throttle?

Thanks!
Jason
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Old 05-20-2007, 09:37 AM   #18
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THat is JUST to determine if you need to regear! IF I got 1700 at 75% in fixed I would have regeared until I got more or "where I wanted it to be".

Look at this as a test and understand this will be your LOWEST head speed (e.g. like a normal mode curve). In high gov it will be higher than that (like an idle up curve).... If i got 1700 I would know this is too low as gov mode would be like 1900 or so best case.

Bob
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Old 05-23-2007, 06:18 AM   #19
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Great video's bob, the endpoint trick was a first for me (50%->100% trick).

I have mine setup in governor now (73% throttle), and it works great with NEU 1910/1Y, 8S and cc85HV.
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Old 05-23-2007, 03:24 PM   #20
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Default Throttle curve in gov mode

I saw exactly what WhirlingBladesOfDeath pointed out. There is a discrepancy between the Finless video set-up and the video / description that Will put up previously (https://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=25517)

In Will/Clint's description, the headspeed found in fixed endpoint mode was used to determine the proper throttle curve setting in gov mode. At 75% throttle curve in fixed endpoint, he got 1850rpm. After switching to gov high mode, they start with a 0 throttle curve then slowly increase throttle % until the same "ideal" headspeed is reached, which is not necessarily at 75%. Will posts the following:

Quote:
I am using a 14mz and the throttle value on Throttle Curve are as follows. 37 - 1700, 40-1860, 45-1975.
So, in gov high mode, his 40% throttle curve gives the same headspeed as 75% in fixed endpoint mode.

I followed the steps outlined in Will/Clint's thread since those were the first ones I saw and I'm flying a T-Rex 600. My headspeed at 75% in fixed endpoint mode was 1880rpm. When I switched to gov high mode, a flat throttle curve at 16% gave me the same 1880rpm. Going up to 22% gives me 2000rpm. I have no idea what a flat throttle curve at 75% will yield, but I imagine it will top out somewhere in-between and not go any higher.

I see that the system described in Bob's video works, but I also see that my set-up seems to need a much lower throttle curve. (BTW, I tried gov low mode first but had to increase the throttle curve to near 100% to get the same 1880HS, so I switched to gov high).

Just trying to determine what the "proper" way to do this is, as the two step-by-step instructions seem to differ on this critical point. Any thoughts?
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