A new raised tail has arrived!

[kavic5150]

Since we're all still here, Happy New Year

[Luvmyhelis]

Here is the latest pic of the B. I stretched it so that I have a full 17" of space inbetween the grip pin center and the actual tip of the tail rotor blades. With all the carbon fibre used in the tail boom assembly it balanced out perfectly so I can still use my 1300 6s batts without having to touch it. This is pictured with the 360s and it passed the test flight with flying colors. My throw away canopy is on it for its maiden. And the 420mm blades are on their way, they should be here this week.

[Deftronix]

Hey LMH, hows the new tail going? Have any further thoughts on it? Nice to see your still going at it full force

[Luvmyhelis]

Geez, thanks for asking.

This project has come a long long way. I documented it in the skookum forum since I am using the vibe analysis tool to lead the way into all the flaws I could find and address.

So far I have scrapped the rest of the factory designed or replicated eflite/align tail parts entirely. I ended up grafting in a Sonix slider due to its wider shaft width and closer tolerance shaft slider bushing, in essence it is wider and tighter on the shaft so it doesnt chatter or rock. Also I eliminated the HH raised center slider ball fixture on the slider also and grafted in a much tighter extended fbl grip arm ball in its place. What this did was give me much much smoother slider action without binding.

Plus I tossed the aftermarket Kde slider links. Just like the align product they supposedly fixed they were sloppy. I could still seriously move my tail blades back and forth before the slop tightened up. So I used the cncheli sonix ball link system here also and it stopped all the slop. Plus I also scrapped the Align design on the grips and went entirely to G5 grips and hub with ceramics. I kept having issues with how poorly the grips functioned due to where the factory designed bearing cradles were placed. In essence I had way too much grip wag. And when I tightened them up with ceramics it exposed how poorly machined the blade grip holes were. When using the Heimjoint chinaweights the balance was off so bad I picked up vibes or 8 on my vibe log. This went through over a dozen align grip assemblies. So I scrapped them and the G5s solved all those problems as the grips were machined correctly. Plus the larger base bearing and inside grip bearing placement ended all grip wag. I did have to file the grip arms on the grips down to allow the sonix slider linkage balls to lineup correctly and re tap the grip arms.

Next I had a slight twist happening with the raise due to how it had its case pinned together during hard tail punches, so I fabbed a stabilizer block and inserted it. Then custom fabbed an end cap to the raised tail assembly to fully hold the halves together without any torque twist. Again these pics are in this thread here, post 133.
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...369598&page=14

During this process Helihaven has also designed a newer version of the raised tail and it is on its way to me for its test trial. This new version is using a 3 blade tail and has a much better tail support bearing and case design. The case was redisigned since I found a very slight tail twist under extreme duress in flight. Not enough really to worry about but still. If you want the ultimate tail you address these things. On the version I test flew I immediately faced bearing failure on the tail shaft due to (again crap align parts) the smaller imprecise 3x6x2.5mm flanged bearings holding the tail shaft in the housing. I was burning through them every two flights. So I machined out the raised tail halves for more substancial tail shaft bearings in ceramics.

Next thing I did since the previous post was to "hog out" a set of thicker main grips in the Rjx Hk knockoff head so that I could fit in the Composite 420s. Now they fit like a glove. And after extensive balancing work, the addition of orange Kbdd dampeners, and some seriously anal assembly work, the head works fabulously. I literally mic'd out a dozen different bearings, grips, fs shafts, and thrust bearings to exactly duplicate the same wieght on each grip side. I still had to file the grips to compensate.

Next, I built a new CF boom and installed a newer longer custom belt. Then pinned the boom by drilling a 2mm guide hole through the raised tail and cf boom so it won't twist in severe tail movements. Then I installed dual custom cut Trex 600 style cf boom supports and ran them up the side of the raise so it would eliminate any torque twist in the actual raise by pinning the raise inbetween the supports.

Next, both I and helihaven had issues with all the factory and aftermarket tail shafts, bearings, and gears being so far out of spec. So I settled on G5 tail shafts and gears. Perfect! plus they are longer and compensate for the wider slider assembly. So I still have excellent blade grip angles for the 61mm orange Kbdd tail blades. And now when I spin them up with the Heimjoint chinaweight mod they are silky smooth with no more off axis off balance vibes. These grips have 0 grip wag and have survived multiple 13 to 14000rpm spin ups.

I also fabbed up a much thicker 3.5mm cf rod for my tail servo rod to eliminate any rod flex and eliminate the extra heft of using metal wire as the servo rod. Even the MksDs95i slowed down with that extra rod weight. I also grafted in a 12t G5 tail drive gear onto the new step up tail drive set to make sure the tooth width is correct and make up for the slightly slower headspeed I will be running with the 420s. I plan on still swinging them at 2700 to 3000. Already did it on the test bed trex version and they are fine.

Which brings me to the newest upgrade. Since I have been touting the 3 bearing main superiority of the B400 design over the crap 2 bearing design of the trex. (I still have large mainshaft instability on the test bed trex even after using ceramics). I found it difficult if impossible to locate affordable eflite spec ceramic main bearings. So I had the mainshaft bearing supports machined out to accept the 5x11x5 align spec main bearings. They are on thier way and I should have this up and flying shortly along with a larger 2200ma 6s battery to see how much longer I can extend my flight times over the 8 min I am now getting.

How is this for a long winded report for a short question?

[Deftronix]

haha wow, had to read that one more time to fully wrap my head around it! Thanks for going into all the details as I know you are in a constant state of striving for perfection and your willingness to share that info is invaluable.

Great idea about tapping out the main shaft braces to support bigger bearings.
Wiill you still be able to fit a canopy on with a 2200ma?

What 3 blade assembly will you be going with to test the new version of the raised tail? Knowing you it will consist of 3-5 different manufacture parts and maybe a couple one offs to go with it. But doesnt that make you want a 3 blade main rotor?

[helihaven]

i HOPE he goes with the one i sent him *grins* if he sh!tcans that slider assembly and bushing...i'm coming to washington......

[Luvmyhelis]

Oh man, please don't give me anymore crazy ideas. The three bladed head idea puts me squarely into scale territory. I have to admit, I was looking at doing this earlier) The head speed would be insanely slow swinging these 420s. You know what stopped me? Just being able to get it out to the flying area. How do you manage a 3 bladed head in transport other than pulling the blades? As it is I had to create a new blade holder since these blades only swing back so far, they still hang 10in away from each other.

I do have a dual swashed dual tri rotored flybarless brushless boardless Sk360 equipped coaxial 450 cp project I am playing with. All it needs is the final 3 grip linkages and I could maiden it. The guy from Helideluxe who sells these german cnc produced one off heads is going crazy wanting me to get it going. I was going to stretch it out to a 500 size also before getting it airborne. Now that build is some crazy stuff going on. A 3D capible coaxial.

I will have complete build pics of the new raised tri bladed dual slider control tail by tomorrow eve. I did some final finishing work on it as Helihaven rushed it out to me as soon as he pulled it off his flight test mule. I did a side by side comparison to the last raise tail system he sent. I actually spent some significant time perfecting the first version and just got it buttoned up last night. The amount of time and workmanship HH puts into these makes it incomprehensable that he can actuall make any $$ doing this. And this new version is simply unbelievable.

I will post up the pics also with a brand new skid mod I am changing my 450s into. The B400 will post bare without the head since the bearing supports are newly machined and headed this way.

[Deftronix]

Come on LMH, 3 blade main rotor made for 3D. Show us what you can really make those 6s 2200ma's do Haha. Maye run a smaller boom and run the 350's again? I mean you did say you had a bunch of booms lying around that you werent going to use. Now the have purpose again! Transportation should be an afterthought

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by Deftronix

Come on LMH, 3 blade main rotor made for 3D. Show us what you can really make those 6s 2200ma's do Haha. Maye run a smaller boom and run the 350's again? I mean you did say you had a bunch of booms lying around that you werent going to use. Now the have purpose again! Transportation should be an afterthought

Transportation is an afterthought! My Blown M3 is sitting in a carbag while I am throwing money at these things and I am driving an old beater 90 Corolla. Ah well, the beemer will get me thrown in the clinker for sure when I get it fired up. It produces more power in one cylinder than the entire Corolla motor.

And yeah Deftronix. The 2200ma 6s battery fits just right!

I just posted up pics of the new Vs2 Raised tail here. Plus a new carbonfibre skid mod.
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...96#post3699996

Also I took a few pics of the shell with the new boom and skids installed. When the new bearing blocks show up I will get this airborne with the new Composite 420s. Looks like I will be fabbing up new wider grips later today. Plus finishing up work on a new stretched B400 for a guy. I may post that build on another thread here if anyone is interested.

[Deftronix]

Okay, where did you get those skid frames?! Sexy!!
The tail looks awesome and cant believe its handmade. Remeber how I painted my frame braces galaxy grey on the cncheli frame? Well that tail painted that color would look . Looks like the new battery is just longer not taller, thats nice.

Everything looks badass man, great job on the whole project!

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by Deftronix

The tail looks awesome and cant believe its handmade.

I wish there was some real way to portray how tight and well made this thing is. The slider fit is so tight I had to literally break it in to the new tail shaft. There is simply no play anywhere on anything. And pictures don't do this thing justice.

Originally Posted by Deftronix

Looks like the new battery is just longer not taller, thats nice.

Actually it is the same length and height. Just fatter with the extra 3 cells. Pretty much 3s doubled up and laid on its side.

Originally Posted by Deftronix

Everything looks badass man, great job on the whole project! Remeber how I painted my frame braces galaxy grey on the cncheli frame? Well that tail painted that color would look

Tell ya what. The build quality on yours set a pretty high mark to have to live up to. It actually gave me ideas. And is the reason for my doubled up upper frame and motor mount brace work. Yeah that paint scheme would be steller looking. But I want to keep the surface of this as HH intended. Plus it gives me the ability to 600 grit it anytime I need to restore the satin finish. The Aluminum on this is really hard stuff though. I spent several hours prepping it and the 600 grit barely touches it. Sanding the inside frame rails was so bad my fingers still hurt today!

Originally Posted by Deftronix

Okay, where did you get those skid frames?! Sexy!!

The skids are from HobbyKing and are for a 600. What I did is cut the carbonfibre frame halves down so they overlapped on opposite sides. Then pushed them together until the mounting blocks almost touch and drilled new holes for the cf skid supports. They simply cannot move. I am thinking of doing a step by step build thread on them.
They are narrower at the top than the 500 skid mod, but still give the full 2 1/2 inch ground clearance and width I like for grass landings. And I absolutely hate the whimpy 450/500 skid tubes so these cut down 600 tubes are bulletproof.

Today I am fitting in the 600cf boom supports onto the tail to stop any boom tube twist, and eliminate tail wag entirely. The supports look funny this way but it really works since it effectively pins the tail inbetween the support rods and fully stops any tail twist. kind of uncanny that the 600 aftermarket supports fit perfectly into this design.

I have to add that this entire venture came about because of the desire to have a slop free tail to start with. And getting rid of the hover torque lean was paramount to the raise tail design. This heli hovers and flies absolutely flat with no right hand lower skid lean like normal 450s. I flew this B with the earlier Vs1 tail so the new Vs2 should be even better due to the fact it is raised even higher to emulate where the B main blade rotational axis is.

Kind of weird hovering a heli and having it sit in the air flat. No lean whatsoever. Due to this the heli itself is far far more stable. I can barely tell anymore when SL is engaged on my Sk720 or not. And you know that when SL is engaged on the Sk720 the gyos are trying to fight the lean issue. Plus most fbl systems have to overcome that lean issue as they are fighting with the heli during flight. It is mathmatically impossible to overcome or correct with gyros. So the raise creates a much much more stable flight all the way around by eliminating the lean. Both the B and the T450 fly in an almost uncanny ease now. The stretch raises the bar even higher. Now they fly with even more stability than a 500 but without all that extra pork. So I have enhanced stability but the same heartpounding performance you would expect out of a 6s 450. Even moreso on the B since the motor is a handwound 2221-2010 version that is turning out appx 20% more torque than its stock scorp version. I have both and I cannot run this motor in the trex as it just blows through gears due to the two bearing main config there.