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Electric Motors Winding and Repair Electric Motors Winding and Repair Discussion


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Old 02-17-2012, 02:18 PM   #21 (permalink)
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just received my Knipex 8603 150 and one can quickly see why these pliers is a weapon of choice for experienced winders.

now the hard part having to grind/file these nice pliers.
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Old 02-17-2012, 02:35 PM   #22 (permalink)
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apart from the great tools posted here I found that "jeweler's tools" have some ready made pliers and probes that come with rounded edges which can be used as secondary tools to the Knipex

http://www.ishor.com/pliers.php
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Old 02-17-2012, 10:39 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFX View Post
just received my Knipex 8603 150 and one can quickly see why these pliers is a weapon of choice for experienced winders.

now the hard part having to grind/file these nice pliers.
It just breaks your hart to think of grinding away on these wonderful tools doesn't it, will keep mine as is for a couple days more maybe I can find some bolts to loosen.....then fasten again!, already stripped a mountain bike or 2!
Beware of too thin pliers, if you don't have a groove in the centre they slip and damage the wire
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Old 02-17-2012, 11:02 PM   #24 (permalink)
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too late I just finished grind down my brand new Knipex plier.
good thing I took 9th grade shop class. totally paying off

I did my just like the photo provided by "powercroco" and actually there very durable no tendency to flex or bend.
The slight curve / arc I find important.

used a drill press and grinding wheel works like a charm. Even a dremel would work.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolla View Post
It just breaks your hart to think of grinding away on these wonderful tools doesn't it, will keep mine as is for a couple days more maybe I can find some bolts to loosen.....then fasten again!, already stripped a mountain bike or 2!
Beware of too thin pliers, if you don't have a groove in the centre they slip and damage the wire
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Old 02-17-2012, 11:10 PM   #25 (permalink)
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You are a brave man, to clarify by thin pliers I actually referred to the narrow nose pliers as in your link, the knipex I think has a wide enough surface not to need grooves
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Old 02-17-2012, 11:33 PM   #26 (permalink)
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ah gotcha.

well I have the 150 mm as suggested however I believe dekker has the 180 which is a little wider and larger overall in size hence why he shaved the sides a little.

thinking the 180 is good choice as well due to the wider span surface




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You are a brave man, to clarify by thin pliers I actually referred to the narrow nose pliers as in your link, the knipex I think has a wide enough surface not to need grooves
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Old 02-18-2012, 12:27 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
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ah gotcha.

well I have the 150 mm as suggested however I believe dekker has the 180 which is a little wider and larger overall in size hence why he shaved the sides a little.

thinking the 180 is good choice as well due to the wider span surface
Actually the 180 is about the same width as the smaller one:
180 = 5mm wide
150 = 4.7mm wide

These pliers are NOT hardened, so a file works great.
The thin tips do not bend or deform in my case, but I never use full force anyway.
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Old 02-18-2012, 01:51 PM   #28 (permalink)
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As a beginner to motor winding I feel its important to distinguish the difference between
meggar (1000V) meter and a standard multimeter (ohm).

perhaps more experience guys can help with this.

this is what I know so please correct me if I'm mistaken.

faulty Insulation resistance may pass with a multi meter - 9v battery typical
however with a potential voltage of up to 1000v for testing the megger will highlight the fault.
I suppose the idea with the meggar is based on the principle that insulation should be tested a little above its normal operating voltage where a standard ohm 9V meter may pass inspection of shorts.

not sure if this applies but I've read that insulation that initially tests good can start to leak and fail after a few minutes of stress. true or false ?


Please advise.

thanks





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Originally Posted by ZuvieleTeile View Post
I would like to ask all of you, what other kind of equipment you use.

E.g. a lot of guys do a 1000 Volt test. Can be done with special Insulation Tester/ Megger.
What kind of experience you do have with those.
Looked some handheld ones up on the net. They go from 40 bucks up to 1500 bucks.
Big difference. I don't know, if we have use for all those expensive built-in features.
What do we really need here?

On the same token, how do you guys hold your stator. With a vice or by hand?

I saw the vice method in the winding video and found it a good idea except the jaws didn't have any soft cover, aluminum, lead etc.
So, I prepared my small Hobby vice in a way by fabricating two pieces of Lexan, which are screwed to the jaws in order to protect the stator from getting damaged.
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Old 02-18-2012, 01:57 PM   #29 (permalink)
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the 1000V spark jumps over a distance of about 1mm!
so you can find out injuries in insulation before they really come into contact with another wire or stator. (caused by geometrical changes between wires and the stator under heat may be).

all bigger industrial made small motors are tested in this way for insulation quality.
and the bigger ones are checked with 4000V for insulation failes.
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Old 02-18-2012, 08:48 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Here is my newly modified Knipex pliers
still need a bit of work and refining.
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Old 02-20-2012, 04:00 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Question regarding tools used for testing motor rpm/V - Kv value aka test bed.

what are the tools of choice used by others ?
eagleTree and UniLog I've seen used.

Is there a need for more expensive alternative ?

Personally I've just tested the "AEO Kv/Rpm meter" and has worked very well.
tested on 3 different motors all readings very accurate to manufacture specs.

AEO a small device requires no Rx, Tx or separate device basically has PWM output to control throttle
Has 3 different methods for reading RPM
electromotive force, photoelectric measure and Hall sensor.
separate voltage ,RPM reading and resulting Kv (both load and no load)
settings very easy just determine motor pole value and rotate PWM output dial.
input power up to 40 V

only $50.00 US

thanks
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:20 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Any measuring equipment that provides a reliable rpm and input volt measurement will work to give you motor data. I use eagle tree with lcd panel, then I save files on pc for reference.
For inflight data jlog is my weapon of choice, however you have to use a jive for that.
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:53 PM   #33 (permalink)
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appreciate the response

cheers


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolla View Post
Any measuring equipment that provides a reliable rpm and input volt measurement will work to give you motor data. I use eagle tree with lcd panel, then I save files on pc for reference.
For inflight data jlog is my weapon of choice, however you have to use a jive for that.
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Old 03-02-2012, 10:43 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Filling the boring waiting time for my wire, I remembered Stolla mentioning using an Eagle Tree Logger for his test stand.
Something dawned to me and after digging for a while in my drawers guess what I found?
Yes, an Eagle Tree V3 logger, which I almost forgot I had it.
Downloaded the latest software, fabricated two aluminum brackets holding a TDR motor mounting plate, mounted the hole thing on a sturdy piece of plywood, laid all the electronics out and fixed them in place and here we go.
First test run showed, that my 600 size X-era 4025/560 was just off by 9 RpM on the Kv.
Next I would like to see, if this differs when using a Jive.
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Old 03-03-2012, 09:36 PM   #35 (permalink)
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nice setup ZuvieleTeile

I was think using quick release high amp terminal blocks to connect motor to esc.
similar to the photo but single terminal for each connector.

has anyone used them and if so which ones where safe to use ?
any thoughts good or bad idea.

seem like a lot work to solder connectors each time you need to test a motor particularly ones configured with YY.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ZuvieleTeile View Post
Filling the boring waiting time for my wire, I remembered Stolla mentioning using an Eagle Tree Logger for his test stand.
Something dawned to me and after digging for a while in my drawers guess what I found?
Yes, an Eagle Tree V3 logger, which I almost forgot I had it.
Downloaded the latest software, fabricated two aluminum brackets holding a TDR motor mounting plate, mounted the hole thing on a sturdy piece of plywood, laid all the electronics out and fixed them in place and here we go.
First test run showed, that my 600 size X-era 4025/560 was just off by 9 RpM on the Kv.
Next I would like to see, if this differs when using a Jive.
Attached Thumbnails
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ID:	295659  
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:03 AM   #36 (permalink)
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get yourself a mini gas torch and ec 5s, you solder those under 10 secs, make solder pool in ec5, then just dip your wires in, when done clamp ec 5, torch and pull wire, 2 secs this time
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:09 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolla View Post
get yourself a mini gas torch and ec 5s, you solder those under 10 secs, make solder pool in ec5, then just dip your wires in, when done clamp ec 5, torch and pull wire, 2 secs this time
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Old 03-07-2012, 06:29 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Has anyone use this very controlled and interesting method of wrapping ?

http://www.powerditto.de/dummiemodus.html

or is the transitional methods with pliers and wedges easier or better
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:29 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Hi,

both work - but the dummy method works best if the slot does not allow the wire to escape like in the HK45 stators. This way, you can wedge dummies in and they will stay where you put them vs. falling out.

Regards,
Simon.
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:52 PM   #40 (permalink)
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thanks simon,

I suppose everyone finds method that work best based on experience.
I'll try testing different ways.
stator i'll be working on HK 4025.

I guess the dummy method can be tricky and risk falling apart when replacing wires.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus665 View Post
Hi,

both work - but the dummy method works best if the slot does not allow the wire to escape like in the HK45 stators. This way, you can wedge dummies in and they will stay where you put them vs. falling out.

Regards,
Simon.
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