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SAB Goblin 630/700/770 SAB Heli Division 630/700/770 - Goblin Helicopters Factory Support


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Old 03-17-2012, 07:49 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Accept it or not, the reality is human beings are designing and manufacturing these things. Mistakes happen. Sometimes the stakes are higher, like a 12lb helicopter boom striking, or batteries on an electric car igniting in an impact.

So until AI becomes a reality, people will continue to make mistakes. In the end it's revealing how well a company handles the mistakes as well as how they learn from them. QC only works as well as the guy writing the checklist and training the operators.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:19 AM   #22 (permalink)
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i will not accept it.. i know it's human to make mistakes. but then your correct the mistake. and not by doing a cheap tape mod!. i paid over a 1000$ for my heli. so if it has mistakes to it. then SAB just will have to ship the parts with out mistake to it. it's not my fould that they havent checked parts wenn making them..
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:26 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Yoda DK View Post
i will not accept it.. i know it's human to make mistakes. but then your correct the mistake. and not by doing a cheap tape mod!. i paid over a 1000$ for my heli. so if it has mistakes to it. then SAB just will have to ship the parts with out mistake to it. it's not my fould that they havent checked parts wenn making them..
I think you are hitting on the "how will they handle it" aspect of my comment. That's yet to be seen. My main point was that "human beings make mistakes", which we all have to accept. Whether or not a "tape mod" is an acceptable solution is another debate separate from my comment.

Open a help ticket with your kit supplier in Denmark and see what happens.
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Old 03-18-2012, 07:45 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Looks like the quality of the innovative boom is a real problem, although we might only see a few here on these forums out of the initial reported 1000 kits, to see one in a thousand faults is NOT acceptable in todays modern manufacture industry.

Hope for all of us sake SAB adresses this and other quality issues ASAP and to the satisfaction of all.
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:27 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I have 2 Goblins from the first batch.
One had a blade to boom clearance of 150 mm.
One had a blade to boom clearance of 129 mm.
I shimmed the 129mm clearance with tape as recommended and got 148mm clearance.
Took 10 minutes and have had no shift in clearance in 5 flights. So the conversation about compression of the tape seems to be only that...talk.
I am happy with the flow of info on this new, great heli from SAB. I am happy to tinker and make the bird perfect. Thanks SAB and Bert.
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Old 03-18-2012, 07:36 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinger View Post
Looks like the quality of the innovative boom is a real problem, although we might only see a few here on these forums out of the initial reported 1000 kits, to see one in a thousand faults is NOT acceptable in todays modern manufacture industry.

Hope for all of us sake SAB adresses this and other quality issues ASAP and to the satisfaction of all.
Booms are hand made, small scale production in CF. A rate of 1 in 100 with fairly small tolerance issues (and they are if a layer of tape fixes them) would not surprise me in the slightest, especially for the early runs.

There are not enough kits being sold to come near automated manufacture and its associated precision. It would appear you have 2 options here, add some tape and keep flying or wait for a replacement. This only becomes a big issue if they dont replace the defective parts, or continue to ship such defective items (since they now know its a possibly serious issue they should check for the problem as part of QC in the future).
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Old 03-18-2012, 09:12 PM   #27 (permalink)
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So were the initial boom strikes that were reported due to this issue? The reason I am asking is to see of it is now safe to run without the 3D shims in the head for a lower headspeed and less aggressive setup.

I fly big air/sports/soft 3D and don't plan on using more than 2050 headspeed. I found on my maiden flight I had severe bobble at 1600 headspeed which was cured at 1800 or higher rpm. I know it should fix the bobble if I remove the shims but I think the current recommendation from SAB is still to run them for all configurations.

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Old 03-18-2012, 10:59 PM   #28 (permalink)
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A recall? Sure. Why not. I mean, it's not catching on fire like other products, and it's fixed with a piece of tape, but let's put even more pressure on a company who is trying to do things different and trying to expand. I'm sure that after prototyping, the cool packaging, and the logistical nightmare getting the Goblin finished has left plenty of capital to remanufacture new booms. No, lets burry SAB right from the start over a simple issue. I'm sure that the sleep they lost and the extra hours they worked while away from their families, so the first batch could get shipped, was no big deal! And, so what if Bert Kramermerer (sorry Bert, my keyboard just keeps on spelling it wrong) took the time to bring this issue to everyone, even posting a video with the fix! Everyone knows that Bert has nothing BUT free time! Just what he does to earn those millions from SAB! And tape? Is he sponsored by Duct Tape, too? (I know I am). Yep, I need a new boom STAT! (I'm kidding)

Thanks, Bert. I knew mine would be off. 130mm. Way off. And you know what? I don't want a recall. Even if my manual was missing 10 pages (it was), I understand that it was a first run and they have bugs to work out. Price for wanting to get in the front of the line. Besides, $1000 is a great deal for this type of heli WITH blades. And I'm sure there is a lot of us supporting SAB for thinking out of the box and risking a new direction. SAB is probably smaller than your average Toyota dealership, but we expect them to act like the Toyota Corporation? If there were a number of twisted booms or an issue beyond a simple five minute fix, then this would be different. But it's not, and they were up front and transparent. I'm just glad I got one.
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:09 PM   #29 (permalink)
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This issue is the same as getting your new Align, Avant, TDR etc delivered with a bent boom. WILL YOU ACCEPT THAT?

100% of us will ask the supplier to replace it, so what makes this different?
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:16 PM   #30 (permalink)
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No, because you can't fix a bent boom with $.01 worth of tape. Composites are not a 20 foot section of aluminum extrusion cut with a band saw. You can't put a bent boom between two things and bend it back. It's hand made. Buy any composite RC plane, or boat, and you have to play with things to get them to line up right.
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:36 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinger View Post
This issue is the same as getting your new Align, Avant, TDR etc delivered with a bent boom. WILL YOU ACCEPT THAT?

100% of us will ask the supplier to replace it, so what makes this different?
Honestly, have you seen one of these booms up close? If you have, why would you compare it to an aluminum tube? And if Align or whomever replaced that, they would be out what? Less than a dollar? Now, I'm not saying the paint job on mine is all that great, but it's a thousand bucks. I'm not expecting Sick or Insane quality. BUT, if I had a strike before I knew about this I'd be pissed and want a new one. And mine is one of the ones that is off, and it's WAY off! And, because on my last Align, I had to re drill a hole, I should ask for a new side plate? Seriously, am I the only one who remembers this is MODELING, and you have to make stuff work now and then? These are glorified AirHogs!

Instead of SAB coming clean, maybe they should have put an inch of tape in the kit and called it the "Adjustable Composite Boom Alignment System 2012" and instructed you how to make it a perfect space. People would call it amazing and they would win some type of award. Maybe they could have charged an extra $20, too.
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:38 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Choppedlow View Post
No, because you can't fix a bent boom with $.01 worth of tape. Composites are not a 20 foot section of aluminum extrusion cut with a band saw. You can't put a bent boom between two things and bend it back. It's hand made. Buy any composite RC plane, or boat, and you have to play with things to get them to line up right.
Have had three composite planks, all 30% and bigger and EVERYTHING fitted perfectly, hell even the paint lines lined up perfectly EVERYWHERE.... These were priced from $1500 to $2500 for the kits and were all composite, including the wings and stabs. Handmade as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Choppedlow View Post
Honestly, have you seen one of these booms up close? If you have, why would you compare it to an aluminum tube? And if Align or whomever replaced that, they would be out what? Less than a dollar? Now, I'm not saying the paint job on mine is all that great, but it's a thousand bucks. I'm not expecting Sick or Insane quality. BUT, if I had a strike before I knew about this I'd be pissed and want a new one. And mine is one of the ones that is off, and it's WAY off! And, because on my last Align, I had to re drill a hole, I should ask for a new side plate? Seriously, am I the only one who remembers this is MODELING, and you have to make stuff work now and then? These are glorified AirHogs!

Instead of SAB coming clean, maybe they should have put an inch of tape in the kit and called it the "Adjustable Composite Boom Alignment System 2012" and instructed you how to make it a perfect space. People would call it amazing and they would win some type of award. Maybe they could have charged an extra $20, too.
Have built and flown one myself, LONG before the kits hit the US shore.... Had to fix a lot of things on the boom especially, servo cut out, remove carbon cloth that was inside boom, boom cracked at seam after 7 flights, YOU WANT ME TO GO ON?

At least in our case the local distro and SAB are working on getting a replacement, I surely hope you guys will be lucky with your issues. SAB better step up to the plate or the much hyped heli will be doomed into a quality control nightmare.
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Old 03-19-2012, 03:44 AM   #33 (permalink)
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The client is always right gents and if you get a defective product you are within your rights to demand a replacement. If you don't want a replacement, then fine, but don't expect other customers to share your view or not to take up their rights.

While guys on here are hell bent on defending quality control issues on the Goblin, let me give you an example of what I think a company should do...the SA distributor has posted the following and I quote "If you have a Goblin 700 and have a Tail Boom issue as in Bert Video please contact your dealer or Goblin Hobbies SA and we will replace your tail boom." Now this is leading by example...no excuses, no : just service! Will I buy from such a distributor, hell yes!

Having Bert as the SAB team pilot assisting with the product in the way that he does is great and shows comitment from SAB.
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:16 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Any distributor can promise anything but if they cannot get parts (esp. free ones) from SAB, too bad.

Cheers,
TomC
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:27 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Any distributor can promise anything but if they cannot get parts (esp. free ones) from SAB, too bad.

Cheers,
TomC
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Old 03-19-2012, 11:54 AM   #36 (permalink)
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i'm still waiting on what SAB is going to do about it.. it can't take that long to give their costumer an answer
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:02 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
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i'm still waiting on what SAB is going to do about it.. it can't take that long to give their costumer an answer
I feel a disturbance in the Force, Yoda. We should not grow impatient and let it get to us.
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:53 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda DK View Post
.. it can't take that long to give their costumer an answer
Just curious... did you contact your kit supplier about a getting a replacement boom, or are you just complaining on a random forum hoping SAB will see it and jump to make you happy?

Again, I'm just curious, as I just re-read all of your posts in this thread and I don't see anywhere where you mentioned actually contacting the supplier of your kit.

I'm willing to bet anyone who contacted their dealer directly has already received their answer.
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:19 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Contacted my distributor (Rotorquest) a week ago. Shawn stood up right away and said "return the boom and skids (I was unhappy with the paint on skids) UNUSED and we will send replacements as soon as we receive them (around March 30) or, keep the ones you have as eventual spares and we will send you new ones, once in stock at a 40% discount". I thnk this was GREAT customer service. Shawn made it clear that the "keep as spares and -%40" deal was pure Rotorquest.... not a SAB offer. The replacement for unused returned booms was SAB.
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:03 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Azlum: i have contacted my kit supplier.and i'm waiting for an answer
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