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Blade 450X Blade 450X Helicopters Information and Help


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Old 10-09-2012, 08:53 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default My first 450x crash. Now what all to check?

Hi guys,
The other day I had my first crash with the 450x. I was trying some light 3d after flying my bl mcpx and didn't think about the change I just made form one hei to another, and I tryed flying the 450x like I did my bl mcpx....lol anywway..... long story short did some flips which ended up going over my head about 30 feet up heading for the house. Thying not to hit house and lost control hiting throttle hole just befor inpact.

I have read on here on what to look for and for the most part I believe I have have a good understanding on what to do and check, but wanted to make sure and ask about the servos and beastx.

I have looked over the heli and ordered all parts that looked needed.
New fethering shaft
New tail shaft
New blades
New main shaft
New main gear
New blade grips
New body.

All in all the heli looked ok. I thought I would have more damage. I have looked at the servos after reading sometimes they can strip. I can move them up and down with no problems. I don't feel anything bad but, I also have read a lot on here. Also if I do have to replace a gear do you have to reprogram the beast? Before I fly again is there anything I need to do to the beast? also I can't see any more damage then what I just told you guys, but if you have any ideas on things I may have missed I would be greatfull.
Fyi, this bird has been great with over 100 flights with no problems.

Thanks,
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You're certainly a better pilot than me.

I've done two BX setups. I'm a rookie.

I would do an entire setup If I were you. Too many components/ different tolerances.

Then it's all good!

Are you certain your servos are good? No clicking?
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:35 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I will be checking again as I do repairs, but I was unable to feel anything. I just wanted to know if there was a way to check other then what I have already done. Powering up and doing some stick movments seem to be fine. Powering down and moving the servos with m hand I don't feel anything. Also I don't really see why you have to reset the beastx after changing a gear? If everything goes back to the same place why would it matter?
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Different tolerances with new hardware.

Pitch, new blades, verify swash, etc.

May take a few minutes. But worth it.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Temptation View Post
I will be checking again as I do repairs, but I was unable to feel anything. I just wanted to know if there was a way to check other then what I have already done. Powering up and doing some stick movments seem to be fine. Powering down and moving the servos with m hand I don't feel anything. Also I don't really see why you have to reset the beastx after changing a gear? If everything goes back to the same place why would it matter?
You touched down without using the skids......the 450X is not an MCPx.....

Once you've replaced the parts that you listed.....you will have to spool up...on the bench....without blades(main and tail).....to see if there are no unusual vibrations....

There might be a part that's damaged, but not easy to spot....

You should balance your new blades.....

Most of your ARBX settings are Ok......but, you should at an absolute minimum......

Go through ARBX Setup Menu ..... Steps G, J, K, and L....and that's if you don't replace or re-gear your stock servos......and you're going to need a pitch gauge.....

And, since you didn't mention damage to the tail assy., a full ARBX Setup is a wise thing to do.....

FWIW
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:45 PM   #6 (permalink)
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If you move the de-powered servos to their extremes by hand and it clicks AT ALL, even ONCE, the servo is stripped and needs to be re-geared. Should just whirr smoothly all the way from end to end, in both directions.

The re-setup needs to be done because you don't know where the servo's internal center point is, and the splines on the output shaft may not be at the same angle with the new gears and require fine-tuning. Which will throw the zero-pitch out of whack mechanically, and change the cyclic geometry values stored in the BX unit as well.

This isn't an older CCPM mixing heli where you can get it close-enough and stick-out or trim out any problems in the mechanical setup. The FBL unit operates to make the heli respond to the inputs received, rather than just moving the servos to a set given position dumbly based on the TX signal. If it doesn't know where X is on the heli, at best it'll fly clumsily and try to compensate all over, decreasing performance and battery life. At worst, it'll 'go nuts' and just auger in.


It looks intimidating at first, yes.
After doing it the first two or three times though, BX setup is a snap. Fifteen minutes, tops to do it RIGHT. It's worth not cutting corners to make sure the heli flies like it's supposed to, and you aren't left standing there with another repair job immediately after taking off on the re-maiden.
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:21 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Thanks guys, I will do theses things as you say, its just going to take me some time to do them. Darn job is always getting in the way of my fun...lol, but it does pay for my fun. What pitch gauge sould I get for this bird? And are there any other blades that work as good as the cf stock blades?
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:30 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EEngineer View Post
You touched down without using the skids......the 450X is not an MCPx.....

Once you've replaced the parts that you listed.....you will have to spool up...on the bench....without blades(main and tail).....to see if there are no unusual vibrations....

There might be a part that's damaged, but not easy to spot....

You should balance your new blades.....

Most of your ARBX settings are Ok......but, you should at an absolute minimum......

Go through ARBX Setup Menu ..... Steps G, J, K, and L....and that's if you don't replace or re-gear your stock servos......and you're going to need a pitch gauge.....

And, since you didn't mention damage to the tail assy., a full ARBX Setup is a wise thing to do.....

FWIW
Lol... I don't know if I would use the words touch down....lol it may have been a little more then a touch, but I did kind of use one side of the skid after the bounce...lol
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:52 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Personally, I use the BeastX bevel box. But the most common gauge is the RCLogger digital pitch gauge. Clips onto the blade like an analog gauge, but with the accuracy and precision (and not needing to screw in the stupid FBL-reference-tool stick thing) of a digital inclinometer. Be aware that RCLogger is planning to release the Version 2 soon.

Also, grab the Blade 400/450 swash tool. You'll need it for easily setting up the proper swash height and getting it levelled properly on Setup step G.


Blades, the 3D Pro CF 335mm blades from Hobbypartz (http://www.hobbypartz.com/60p-pro-3351.html) are the current best 'beater' blades anyone's found. Got in on them when they were only $6 a set and snagged a few just-in-case. They fly fine, but may need a little balancing to get spot-on.

Some also like the Revolution 335mm blades due to the white tips making the rotor disc more visible, but they're pricier than the stock blades. (http://www.revolutionhelis.com/Produ...dID=RVOB032550). Revolution also measures hole-to-tip (why they're marked as 325mm blades; they're 335mm overall.)

Align 325D 3G blades are pretty cheap, but they're 325mm overall, losing a centimeter off the tip, which translates into almost a 16-18% max potential lift loss. Makes the heli sluggish on pitch pumps, not start or stop as hard when flaring, less stable and smooth in-flight, but also more bog-resistant thanks to the lower drag.

Do NOT fly fiberglass or woodies on this thing. The high headspeed (compared to a 450-3D or similar) puts them at risk of shattering in-flight with the additional strain, not to mention more aggressive performance available.
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:31 AM   #10 (permalink)
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To the OP - might be an idea to check your dampers too if you had over 100 flights while you're there. Just order them now if you're doing a parts order. You'll be surprised how soft they can get. They look ok but when you compare them to a new pair... Best just do it for best performance.

Oh, and I use an RC logger. I found, at least on my heli, I could use the BX to take a reference for zero from.

It was about as good a reference as calibrating zero from blade fold (which I did initially out of habit - typically I will use tooldrop, then once in the right vicinity, blade fold, calibrate zero and check with RC logger for the deflections).

Of topic: Oh Taliesin, you wouldn't believe it .... but Revo 335's are actually cheaper here than the official blade FBL 335's...$28.50 versus $40 (zeejayhobbies.com.au)... The mind boggles.

I'd buy a pair but I don't know how they differ to the stockers, which I am quite happy with, to be honest.
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:45 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Yeah, here in the US the stockers retail at $32 a pair, while the Revos are around $38 a pair. I believe a few Freakers are running them, and have reported like-stock performance profiles, with the added benefit of the white tips outlining the edge of the rotor disc much more clearly than the stock CF/gray/black.

I may have to buy a set, just to give my own thoughts after using them for a while; I was slightly concerned with the shorter trailing-edge profile they present, but really, with as close to the root as that part of the disc is, it likely doesn't make an appreciable difference, aside possibly from making it slightly more susceptible to VRS (vortex-ring state, which is very bad juju but relatively rare for model helis).
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:07 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Temptation View Post
Hi guys,
The other day I had my first crash with the 450x. I was trying some light 3d after flying my bl mcpx and didn't think about the change I just made form one hei to another, and I tryed flying the 450x like I did my bl mcpx....lol anywway..... long story short did some flips which ended up going over my head about 30 feet up heading for the house. Thying not to hit house and lost control hiting throttle hole just befor inpact.
Tempt,

Glad to see your getting the help you need here to get you back in the air. I've been lurking around for a while in this thread preparing for that day when I get a 450X. Hopefully I be prepared just before spring. Iím currently getting comfortable with my stock mcpx and now moving on to learning some basic aerobatics on it, like roll/flip/invert hover because these are the maneuvers I want to perform one day on the future 450X.

Without straying too far off topic, I was hoping you would elaborate a little more about you not ďThinking AboutĒ the difference in light 3D flying from the your BL mcpx to the 450X. Also, I you mentioned that you had over 100 flights on the 450X with no problems. Was this prior to you trying your first light 3D flying resulting in your first crash?

My point being, I want to know IYHO should I be learning my basic/simple aerobaticí s on something else other than the mcpx and before trying it on an 450X? Is there a better/wiser in between heli to practice with? I know unless you had an in between heli you may not be able to comment on this part on my question, but if you had it to do over again what would you do different, if anything?

Iím sure you will be back in that air soon thanks to these guys here. Iíve gathered tons of notes here and want to say thank you helifreaks. Iíve grown further here in 4 months than I have in 10 years combined
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:32 AM   #13 (permalink)
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3D is LOADS easier on the 450X. You can take it higher (so more time to bail out if things go wrong) and still see it clearly. It's more stable and TONS more powerful. When doing flips and rolls, it just 'floats' there for a few seconds after going to zero-pitch, instead of dropping like a rock (as on the mCPX). Since the tail is a belt-driven variable pitch affair (instead of a direct-drive motor) it's a world of difference more solid. I can't stress this one enough, the tail simply does NOT blow out, no matter WHAT you do to it. Rock-solid hold every time (so long as the belt is tensioned right, of course).

Really, if you're competent on the mCPX for sport flight and can do slow piros (eg: extremely solid on orientations), you're ready to move up.

I've crashed mine a total of once at the 90-pack mark, and started doing flips and rolls around 30. The one crash wasn't doing 3D... it was coming in to land at the end of a pack at a 3/4 nose-in orientation, having a gust of wind catch it, mistaking the orientation and having the heli dutifully follow my inputs straight into the ground.


Still have trouble getting my mCPX inverted reliably, even doing simple rolls. The 450X, I can easily do back to back rolls, flips, inverted hovering and more for full packs at a time.
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:39 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I originally gotten the mcpx to help me learn to takeoff, hover, hover at tail-in & nose-in and land CP heli's. Figured if I could get comfortable with only these maneuvers then I would move on to bigger heli's. The way I looked at it was even if that was all I was capable performing that would be OK because being able to just control the take-off, hovering and landings would be awesome enough due to their size and the sounds of the machines. IMHO these are the coolest things a person can have in their hands to manipulate. Hell, just watching a large heli hover fascinates me to the point I could watch that all day.

I never thought I would be at this point of development that I would even entertain the thought of doing a roll, yet here I am. I still have not mastered a circuit or figure 8ís or SLOW piros to the point I would comfortably do this on a large heli but I will master it on the mcpx first before transitioning those over to the 450X. Which brings be back to my original concern. Iím not totally convenience yet if the 130X will help me anymore then the mcpx will when transitioning rolls/flip/invertís to the 450X. The OP mentioned that for him, he did not think/realize the change from doing mcpx 3D to 450X 3D hence the crash. Without putting words into the OPís mouth, in other words there was an obvious difference in handling. Was this good or bad? If bad, how was it bad and how can I avoid this mishap? If the OP had a do-over what would that be?
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:01 PM   #15 (permalink)
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The 130X is still FIRMLY on my 'do not buy' list.
Until Horizon sorts out the problems with the tail self-destructing midflight and the heli generally eating itself? Stay away. It flies better than the mCPX, but still... stay away. NOT worth it at the moment.

The 450X flies like a LARGE, stable, super-powerful mCPX really. But that size means that it can get moving very fast, if you aren't careful. Not sure what the OP meant by the change either, but the 450 is DEFINITELY NOT a front/backyard flier. At best it needs an area about the size of a soccer pitch, for safety's sake.

If you can (reasonably) competently sport-fly an mCPX with circuits, figure-eights and slow piros? You're ready for the 450X. Just make sure you're EXTRA careful with it, and really, really gentle with the cyclic. And don't forget to use the stick-on velcro on the battery pack; the snug-down strap will NOT keep it from getting shoved into the motor, which WILL take a bite out of it. As I found out on my first flight.

Beyond that, keep a good distance away from yourself and anything else (I'd say a minimum 20 feet until you're very used to it), and fly a minimum of 15-20' off the ground while you're still feeling it out. In a hover, it will SNAP to cyclic inputs shockingly fast (compared to the mCPX), and hang there for a second or two before it starts moving (thanks to the greater inertia).


I can offer no higher praise than this: If I was offered the chance to go back and do it over again, knowing what I know now? I'd buy the 450X again in a heartbeat. It's THAT frickin' good.
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:29 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I've been following the 130X a little since release and noted all the problems and hoping for a near future V2 release. However, that dream has faded after coming from Blade's website concerning the 130X. Blade released an Addendum dated October 2012 http://www.bladehelis.com/Products/S...LH3780#manuals
addressing some of the troubles reported to them. They give troubleshooting advise and tips for some of the reported problems. I'm afraid that's as far as this heli will be addressed. So, guess I'll continue my training on the mcpx and hope the transition to 3D to the 450X won't be to diffecult.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:34 AM   #17 (permalink)
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The 130X flies great... when she flies lol... I haven't quite made up my mind whether to love it or hate it, there's so much that's good about it (size etc) but it's so... finicky. Everything is small and has to be just right. If you are very mechanical and have this knack with mesh and alignment etc, the 130X may be a good bet.

As a parkflyer.. omg... when the 130X flies, it's... good.

Sadly, I've done less for my 450X and flown it much much much more. Ratio of flight time to wrenching time is way higher for the 450X than the 130X in my esitmation lol...

This week that's my aim. Get the 130X's perfect. Umm... wish me luck
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:33 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I think I'm finally starting to get a handle on the setup on my 130X. It really does fly awesome when it's right.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:28 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by KySky View Post
Tempt,

Glad to see your getting the help you need here to get you back in the air. I've been lurking around for a while in this thread preparing for that day when I get a 450X. Hopefully I be prepared just before spring. Iím currently getting comfortable with my stock mcpx and now moving on to learning some basic aerobatics on it, like roll/flip/invert hover because these are the maneuvers I want to perform one day on the future 450X.

Without straying too far off topic, I was hoping you would elaborate a little more about you not ďThinking AboutĒ the difference in light 3D flying from the your BL mcpx to the 450X. Also, I you mentioned that you had over 100 flights on the 450X with no problems. Was this prior to you trying your first light 3D flying resulting in your first crash?

My point being, I want to know IYHO should I be learning my basic/simple aerobaticí s on something else other than the mcpx and before trying it on an 450X? Is there a better/wiser in between heli to practice with? I know unless you had an in between heli you may not be able to comment on this part on my question, but if you had it to do over again what would you do different, if anything?

Iím sure you will be back in that air soon thanks to these guys here. Iíve gathered tons of notes here and want to say thank you helifreaks. Iíve grown further here in 4 months than I have in 10 years combined
IMO, You are fine with the MCPX. Thats how I was able to learn how to fly CP Heli. Looking back now I feel it was the best move. I had planed on getting a smaller heli (i.e Blade SR) but then the new 300x was soon to be out. Then one day after reading on here someone on here spoke of the ampdraw website and so I checked it out. a Blade 450x for $406.00... . I broke down and got it right then. I took a risk due to the cheaper price....

At first I would just hover, then I would fly around very slow. One day I took a chance and flew it like I would and airplane. It was so much fun. All along I had been flying my mcpx almost everyday. Then I met up with a friend and we went flying and wile flying, and wile out flying i got crazy, It was so stable, and i wanted to flip it so bad.... and so out of the blue I hit S1, pulled back on the stick, went neg pitch, back to poss, and it was over. Ok now im just keep doing this...lol Anyways, the mcpx gave me the confidence I needed and the understanding of the stick moments to do so. So I would say the road you are on is fine.

You will find that in some ways the 450x is lot more stable, but you need to keep in mind that you will have more fears with 450x, and that the response form one heli is different form another. That day I crashed I had gotten careless, it was as if i treated it like it was a mcpx, both in my mind and in the stick moments. For one I was to close to the house, and the other..., well, this heli response to what you give it. thats a good thing if you want it to do what you are telling it to do...lol

Let me say this. (IMOP), if your good at flying around with the mcpx, then you can fly the 450x around, but doing 3d is a whole different animal. I'm not good at 3d, I just try things and I have done some good thus far, (side note: keep it high when trying 3d for the first time) But I do feel I may cut back on some due to $$$$$lol If i had more I would do more. I have been very close to crashing before but was somehow able to save it at the lat min. there just seems to be a very high learning curve. For me the MCPX was a way for guys like me to get started.

I am very happy I got the 450x over other helis. Its size and capability make it the best choice for me. In a crash the 300x and 450x would be about the same. At ampdraw the price was right. I dont see another heli out there that would have all these pros. for the $$$$.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:36 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Thanks Tempt for the feedback. I understand what you mean now. Bigger heli's require not only more respect but more room to play in. From what I've read concerning the 450X, it has been known to bestow over confidence in ones abilities. I'm looking forward to getting mine sooner rather then later. Unfortunately winter is just around the corner for me. Next stop, 500X with retractable gear
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