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Old 05-06-2012, 06:07 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Question Noob flight question

Hello, I am quite new and still working at hovering. I bought a Phoenix Sim to help in this endeavor. When I look at the physical setup of my Blade CP the following appears obvious to me.

If copter nose is point north and I push forward on the right stick (mode 2) the copter noses down and heads north. Then by applying left rudder, I point the nose west. The nose is still pointing down so the copter begins flying toward the west right?

Well in my phoenix flight sim 4.0j it continues to travel north. and now instead of the copter pointing nose down, it is leaning right down (and heading north still). It's like the blade angle and position stayed exactly the same and the nose just changed direction. This doesn't make sense to me as the servos that were operated change the angle of things relative to their position and therefore frame/nose.

This does not make sense to me. Do I have something set wrong in the flight sim or on my dx6i radio?

Or, is it correct and my understanding of model heli operation completely wrong?

Thanks

Mark

Last edited by IGeeky1; 05-06-2012 at 07:25 PM..
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Old 05-06-2012, 08:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
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What you describe is exactly the correct behavior for a collective pitch heli.

When you push the cyclic stick forward, the heli rotor disc will tilt forward.

If you return the cyclic stick to center, the heli rotor disc should still remain tilted forward. The heli will not try to return to a hover..

If you wanted to stop forward motion, you would actually have to do some back cyclic to counter the forward motion..

In your example, you chose to give left rudder.
When you apply left rudder, this will just rotate the heli along the mainshaft axis, while the heli will continue moving in the current direction it was. Thus now it will be leaning right.

So, you can see, to successfully hover and fly a collective pitch heli, it is pretty much a constant set of actions or counteractions required by the pilot.

More things to confuse:
You are probably noticing on the physical heli, when you return the cyclic to center, the swash goes back level relative to the heli. This does not mean the heli will try to go to level hover. Basically, another way of thinking of it may be, if the swash is level relative to the heli, the heli (and flybar etc) will try to keep the heli it its current orientation, whatever that may be..
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Old 05-06-2012, 08:44 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks Infocus

The heli dipping down for forward movement makes sense to me, having to dip it in reverse and then level out to stop forward progress makes sense. What doesn't make sense to me is that if the nose is tipped downward that rotating the nose to a different heading would change the tilt of the nose.

I guess i can accept that it is simply the way it happens but I physically can't picture why it would work that way in my mind. I feel that the downward tilt of the nose, caused by servo arms changing the angle of the swash plate, would move with the nose being as the servos are fixed in position on the frame o the copter.

I'm missing something here...
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Old 05-06-2012, 10:04 PM   #4 (permalink)
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You've kinda gotta separate the rotor disc from the "body" when trying to make it make sense. If you tile the rotor disc 15 north and then after that apply rudder the body will spin underneath the rotor disc but the disc itself will still be tilted down 15 north, once the body is turned then your cyclic inputs will manipulate the rotor disc accordingly but when you stop making cyclic inputs the swash returns to level so it is no longer affecting the rotors until the next input is made. This is just one of the many things that makes CP helis far more challenging than coaxial and fixed pitch helis. When you have mastered something like an mSR or 120SR you become kind of disillusioned that you can fly any heli, then CP helis bring you back to reality and justify the common impression that RC helis are the hardest RC things to play with. A monkey can fly a CX, a smart monkey could probably learn FP helis but it takes much more coordination and patience to learn CP helis. Good luck on your journey towards basic CP flight and beyond.
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:20 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Welcome to the addictive obsession, IGeeky1. It's going to be a lot of fun! Keep practicing on your SIM skills. It'll pay off in the long run.

Chep
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Old 05-07-2012, 06:06 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Thanks everyone...I guess I need to stick with Newton's first law in my head.

Thank you for setting me straight gentlemen and for the good wishes.

My sim planes stay alive just fine, my heli's, well I can keep them alive about as long doing crazy stuff as I can trying to hover. lol

Time to go play
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
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An airplane is a majestic entity in which it's very essence has a will such that it wants to be airborne.

A helicopter's only goal is to remain attached to mother earth. It is constantly in search of the shortest path possible to terra firm-a. This can only be overcome by a pilots diligence to constantly recognize which path the helicopter has chosen for its reunion with the ground, and to deploy counter measures to prevent the inevitable for as long as possible.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:07 PM   #8 (permalink)
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That was beautiful and eloquent InFocus.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:56 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Remember that you are controlling the rotor disc and not the body of the heli. That was a tough one for me to learn.
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Old 05-10-2012, 03:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
 

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Given the scenerio you described in your OP, your heli will still have its main blades leaned towards the north even if your nose is now facing west because you gave left rudder. Your heli will continue flying north, the only difference in now the nose isnt facing North anymore, now its facing west. If you want your heli to fly in the direction its nose is facing then you have to apply forward cyclic stick input to redirect your main blades. Now you will be flying West. Hope this helps.
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:13 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Stick with it! I'm JUST getting the hang of it and OH does it feel great.
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:42 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InFocus View Post
An airplane is a majestic entity in which it's very essence has a will such that it wants to be airborne.

A helicopter's only goal is to remain attached to mother earth. It is constantly in search of the shortest path possible to terra firm-a. This can only be overcome by a pilots diligence to constantly recognize which path the helicopter has chosen for its reunion with the ground, and to deploy counter measures to prevent the inevitable for as long as possible.
Awesome

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