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130X Blade 130X Helicopters Information and Help


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Old 07-14-2012, 01:01 AM   #1
ShaneJourdan
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Default Problem solved: Many

Guys,

I decided to make an experiment. I realy wondered what small thing could the factory or I have done to make such a different experiance between heli's. I also started to realize one thing is responsible for many problems.


The issues, I believe are easily resolved.
  • "A" Gear issues i.e., stripping and grinding. ( mesh too tight )
  • Vibration on start up ( Resistance in torque rod )
  • Tail wag ( the tail gyro cant deal with resistance in the torque rod )
  • Over heated motor ( strain on motor do to resistance in torque tube )
  • Tail blowout. ( again, not enough power to acquire the proper RPM in the rotor and consequently the tail )
Also I am not sold on setting a torque rod, "B" and "C" lash buy adjusting how far the boom is installed into the tail case. I believe the tail case NEEDS to be press on all the way.

Regaurding the frame... right before the inboard torque rod bearing IS A STOP for the BOOM, so you cant put it on to far.

However... IF your D slots ground into the torque rod are not cut in far enough it can bind your "B" and "C" gears against there counter part to hard. Hence needing to back of the the boom in the frame by .05mm.

Now for the fix.!!

Install your MAIN gear so it indexes with the bottom of your pinion gear. NOT "even" but up 0.5 or 1.5mm or so.. MAKE sure you can feel a UP and DOWN slop when you grab the main gear and pull up and down once seated.

Problems solved
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Old 07-14-2012, 01:52 AM   #2
755 robert
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Excellent point..I found this out by accident,I was thinking like the mcpx you must push it up tight, then after I did a gear change I noticed the shaft is not held by the gear,so I left it down farther on the shaft to get an easier motor pinion/main gear mesh and everything felt smoother..This may make a big difference all the way around..
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Old 07-14-2012, 02:27 AM   #3
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Wow! I think you are on to some thing here.

After reading your thread and the thread in the link below, I think you guys have solved a major problem alot of people have been having.

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=434332

And I think 3VW also solved another problem.

https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.p...36&postcount=8

3 posts could save alot of people alot of headaches.
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T-Rex 250 450x 300x 180CFX MCPX-BL B400 130X MCPX 230S NANO-CPX NANO-CPS MSRX 120 SR MSR MCX

IF IT CAN'T BE FIXED WITH DENTAL FLOSS, THEN IT CAN'T BE FIXED..LOL
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Old 07-14-2012, 02:32 AM   #4
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I do not get this solution. Doesn't the A gear pinned into the main shaft really determine any up and down" play?
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Old 07-14-2012, 02:37 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovespicyfood View Post
I do not get this solution. Doesn't the A gear pinned into the main shaft really determine any up and down" play?
If you push the main gear up too tight against bearing, the frame is actually flexing, causing the A gear to push down on the B gear.
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IF IT CAN'T BE FIXED WITH DENTAL FLOSS, THEN IT CAN'T BE FIXED..LOL
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Old 07-14-2012, 02:40 AM   #6
lovespicyfood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liduno View Post
If you push the main gear up too tight against bearing, the frame is actually flexing, causing the A gear to push down on the B gear.
Ah...okay....thanks for the explanation.

We really need a sticky for a "bible" of 130 fixes...

I had a huge shuddering problem today and someone told me to put the spare canopy grommets on the swash. Some people are using dental floss to snug up the stock swash o-rings. This quick fix solved my shuddering problem!
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Old 07-14-2012, 03:03 AM   #7
toys2cars2toys
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorJ View Post
Guys,

I decided to make an experiment. I realy wondered what small thing could the factory or I have done to make such a different experiance between heli's. I also started to realize one thing is responsible for many problems.


The issues, I believe are easily resolved.
  • "A" Gear issues i.e., stripping and grinding. ( mesh too tight )
  • Vibration on start up ( Resistance in torque rod )
  • Tail wag ( the tail gyro cant deal with resistance in the torque rod )
  • Over heated motor ( strain on motor do to resistance in torque tube )
  • Tail blowout. ( again, not enough power to acquire the proper RPM in the rotor and consequently the tail )
Also I am not sold on setting a torque rod, "B" and "C" lash buy adjusting how far the boom is installed into the tail case. I believe the tail case NEEDS to be press on all the way.

Regaurding the frame... right before the inboard torque rod bearing IS A STOP for the BOOM, so you cant put it on to far.

However... IF your D slots ground into the torque rod are not cut in far enough it can bind your "B" and "C" gears against there counter part to hard. Hence needing to back of the the boom in the frame by .05mm.

Now for the fix.!!

Install your MAIN gear so it indexes with the bottom of your pinion gear. NOT "even" but up 0.5 or 1.5mm or so.. MAKE sure you can feel a UP and DOWN slop when you grab the main gear and pull up and down once seated.

Problems solved

I haven't got mine yet (slow shipping to UK) so lots of time on here trying to find nuggets of gold like this one
I'd also come to the conclusion that the B and C gears should be able to push up against their bearings. In a long winded post I basically said push the boom in as far as it will go but not too far that the round parts of torque rods stick out of the bearings

Just a question, do you really mean "0.05mm" that really is not visible to the eye, I suspect 0.5mm

The other thing that I would say is that there's probably quite a wide manufacturing tolerance on these parts, following the same method may require different amounts of boom positioning on other heli's


Good spot on the gear, so you are saying that as the main shaft is retained, with the collar and A gear, then the main gear doesn't have to be pushed up tight - some clearance is better
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Old 07-14-2012, 03:05 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liduno View Post
Wow! I think you are on to some thing here.

After reading your thread and the thread in the link below, I think you guys have solved a major problem alot of people have been having.

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=434332

And I think 3VW also solved another problem.

https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.p...36&postcount=8

3 posts could save alot of people alot of headaches.


I think that you are right, you guys have really started to narrow down some of the problems
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Old 07-14-2012, 03:07 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liduno View Post
Wow! I think you are on to some thing here.

After reading your thread and the thread in the link below, I think you guys have solved a major problem alot of people have been having.

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=434332

And I think 3VW also solved another problem.

https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.p...36&postcount=8

3 posts could save alot of people alot of headaches.
That's what we need. Not all this winning like babies
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Old 07-14-2012, 03:09 AM   #10
Liduno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toys2cars2toys View Post
I think that you are right, you guys have really started to narrow down some of the problems
I love this forum..lol

Eventually someone on here will figure out the secret to time travel, If only to get their parts before they actually need them
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IF IT CAN'T BE FIXED WITH DENTAL FLOSS, THEN IT CAN'T BE FIXED..LOL
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Old 07-14-2012, 03:15 AM   #11
toys2cars2toys
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liduno View Post
I love this forum..lol

Eventually someone on here will figure out the secret to time travel, If only to get their parts before they actually need them
What do you mean "eventually" didn't you wonder why I ordered a metal A gear and Xtreme pitch slider 2 weeks ago, I haven't even got my heli yet
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Old 07-14-2012, 03:19 AM   #12
Liduno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toys2cars2toys View Post
What do you mean "eventually" didn't you wonder why I ordered a metal A gear and Xtreme pitch slider 2 weeks ago, I haven't even got my heli yet
You sneaky bastid
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T-Rex 250 450x 300x 180CFX MCPX-BL B400 130X MCPX 230S NANO-CPX NANO-CPS MSRX 120 SR MSR MCX

IF IT CAN'T BE FIXED WITH DENTAL FLOSS, THEN IT CAN'T BE FIXED..LOL
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Old 07-14-2012, 03:26 AM   #13
toys2cars2toys
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liduno View Post
You sneaky bastid
Then again this "gift" didn't foresee me smacking my 250 into the ground this week from great height and pretty fast

Very little damage though due to rain soaked ground, luck and throttle hold
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Old 07-14-2012, 03:31 AM   #14
Liduno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toys2cars2toys View Post
Then again this "gift" didn't foresee me smacking my 250 into the ground this week from great height and pretty fast

Very little damage though due to rain soaked ground, luck and throttle hold
I think a trip in the ole time machine and a few strategically placed pillows could solve that..lol
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T-Rex 250 450x 300x 180CFX MCPX-BL B400 130X MCPX 230S NANO-CPX NANO-CPS MSRX 120 SR MSR MCX

IF IT CAN'T BE FIXED WITH DENTAL FLOSS, THEN IT CAN'T BE FIXED..LOL
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Old 07-14-2012, 06:37 AM   #15
CrazyNorman
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If pushing the main gear on all the way flexes the frame, could that be what causes the a gear to rob the servo? Could also apply slight bend to tt, killing bearings.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:15 AM   #16
Willyboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorJ View Post

Now for the fix.!!

Install your MAIN gear so it indexes with the bottom of your pinion gear. NOT "even" but up 0.5 or 1.5mm or so.. MAKE sure you can feel a UP and DOWN slop when you grab the main gear and pull up and down once seated.

Problems solved
I have one flight on mine and I thought everything was smooth and perfect. After reading your discovery, I took the canopy off and rotated the main gear by hand clockwise and everything seemed really smooth. Then I rotate the main gear counter-clockwise and I one spot on the the A & B gear it would hang up and I had to put extra effort on the main gear to get past this spot. It would give a rather loud click to get past this rough spot. So I tried your idea and the rough spot went away completely when rotating the main gear counter-clockwise. It was never a problem turning the gear clockwise. I then push the main gear up tight against the frame and sure enough the binding occurred again when turning the main gear counter-clockwise. I repeated these steps several times and each time I received binding issues when turning the main gear counter-clockwise but not any issues when turning clockwise.

Thanks for your very good tip and keen observation. This is why I really love this forum because everybody is pulling together to make this bird really work well. I do think that the tail slider/box will be better if a third party manufacturer develops one out of metal which I understand is being done presently.

Bob
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:24 AM   #17
d12bn
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Default Hey

So adjusting the main gear stopped your tail wag? My 130x flys great for easy sport flying. Hard 3d and I get tail wag. I've adjusted gain and gear mesh with the boom and tail mount with different results but none as good as I would like. I will try the main gear adjustment

QUOTE=DoctorJ;4104613]Guys,

I decided to make an experiment. I realy wondered what small thing could the factory or I have done to make such a different experiance between heli's. I also started to realize one thing is responsible for many problems.


The issues, I believe are easily resolved.
  • "A" Gear issues i.e., stripping and grinding. ( mesh too tight )
  • Vibration on start up ( Resistance in torque rod )
  • Tail wag ( the tail gyro cant deal with resistance in the torque rod )
  • Over heated motor ( strain on motor do to resistance in torque tube )
  • Tail blowout. ( again, not enough power to acquire the proper RPM in the rotor and consequently the tail )
Also I am not sold on setting a torque rod, "B" and "C" lash buy adjusting how far the boom is installed into the tail case. I believe the tail case NEEDS to be press on all the way.

Regaurding the frame... right before the inboard torque rod bearing IS A STOP for the BOOM, so you cant put it on to far.

However... IF your D slots ground into the torque rod are not cut in far enough it can bind your "B" and "C" gears against there counter part to hard. Hence needing to back of the the boom in the frame by .05mm.

Now for the fix.!!

Install your MAIN gear so it indexes with the bottom of your pinion gear. NOT "even" but up 0.5 or 1.5mm or so.. MAKE sure you can feel a UP and DOWN slop when you grab the main gear and pull up and down once seated.

Problems solved[/QUOTE]
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:52 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorJ View Post
Guys,

I decided to make an experiment. I realy wondered what small thing could the factory or I have done to make such a different experiance between heli's. I also started to realize one thing is responsible for many problems.


The issues, I believe are easily resolved.
  • "A" Gear issues i.e., stripping and grinding. ( mesh too tight )
  • Vibration on start up ( Resistance in torque rod )
  • Tail wag ( the tail gyro cant deal with resistance in the torque rod )
  • Over heated motor ( strain on motor do to resistance in torque tube )
  • Tail blowout. ( again, not enough power to acquire the proper RPM in the rotor and consequently the tail )
Also I am not sold on setting a torque rod, "B" and "C" lash buy adjusting how far the boom is installed into the tail case. I believe the tail case NEEDS to be press on all the way.

Regaurding the frame... right before the inboard torque rod bearing IS A STOP for the BOOM, so you cant put it on to far.

However... IF your D slots ground into the torque rod are not cut in far enough it can bind your "B" and "C" gears against there counter part to hard. Hence needing to back of the the boom in the frame by .05mm.

Now for the fix.!!

Install your MAIN gear so it indexes with the bottom of your pinion gear. NOT "even" but up 0.5 or 1.5mm or so.. MAKE sure you can feel a UP and DOWN slop when you grab the main gear and pull up and down once seated.

Problems solved
By "up" you mean away from the rotor head, right?
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Old 07-14-2012, 09:41 AM   #19
Liduno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willyboy View Post
I have one flight on mine and I thought everything was smooth and perfect. After reading your discovery, I took the canopy off and rotated the main gear by hand clockwise and everything seemed really smooth. Then I rotate the main gear counter-clockwise and I one spot on the the A & B gear it would hang up and I had to put extra effort on the main gear to get past this spot. It would give a rather loud click to get past this rough spot. So I tried your idea and the rough spot went away completely when rotating the main gear counter-clockwise. It was never a problem turning the gear clockwise. I then push the main gear up tight against the frame and sure enough the binding occurred again when turning the main gear counter-clockwise. I repeated these steps several times and each time I received binding issues when turning the main gear counter-clockwise but not any issues when turning clockwise.

Thanks for your very good tip and keen observation. This is why I really love this forum because everybody is pulling together to make this bird really work well. I do think that the tail slider/box will be better if a third party manufacturer develops one out of metal which I understand is being done presently.

Bob
You may still want to look at your B gear to make sure there isn't a casting defect or something like that.
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T-Rex 250 450x 300x 180CFX MCPX-BL B400 130X MCPX 230S NANO-CPX NANO-CPS MSRX 120 SR MSR MCX

IF IT CAN'T BE FIXED WITH DENTAL FLOSS, THEN IT CAN'T BE FIXED..LOL
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Old 07-14-2012, 10:00 AM   #20
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I think DoctorJ is on to something here. I remember him posting a while back about TT and boom depths for gear mesh, he agreed with me that the B gear needed to rest against the bearing to stop the A gear from being chewed. And I posted a lengthy write-up about this.
I installed the metal A gear a couple days ago, left the boom where it was and flew just fine, for a few flights. Then the C gear started walking off the TT and stripping the hole. ( made me originally think the servo was crapping out).

Last night I noticed my tail box sliding off the boom, aggravating the problem.

So I hot glued the tail box to one side of the boom only. Box stays put now and is easy to remove should the need arise. I also took a different approach with the boom depth, since I am now using the metal A gear, and pushed it all the way in. Gear mesh is tighter, no binding, TT stays in place.

But the resonance got worse, even with new bearings.

So I got out the model train gear lube (really thick gooey stuff) and lightly lubed the A-B gears and the C-D gears, rotated by hand a few turns for a good coat and wiped the excess off.

Now it's smooth as can be, no resonance, and quieter sound in flight.

Lets face it, the original plastic A gear is crap. caused more problems, leading to false fixes that brought up more problems.

So if you're running the new metal A gear, try fully seating the boom now, do what you need to do for securing the tail box and lube the gears fore and aft. Rotate by hand and check for binding.

Another thing I noticed was, using trimmed down 250 tail blades, was a "heavy" feel to the tail.
I re-installed the original tail blades and the tail calmed down, was quieter still and feels "light" again, actually more responsive, imho.

Today's project is to lengthen the boom supports clear to the tail box, and see if better support on the boom will help in any way.
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