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Old 10-15-2013, 11:02 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Docile Nano settings for the DX6i

I have been flying the MSR for sometime now and wanted to move up. I just bought a Nano from here and while I am waiting for it to be delivered I would like to program my DX6i. Would someone that has some tame indoor settings for the DX6i please share their settings. Thank you very much in advance.
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:14 AM   #2 (permalink)
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On mine I set it up as the manual says except I set dual rates to 45 with 20% expo. That would be a good starting point. If it's still too squirrely for you you can lower the rates even more. Expo is a personal preference thing so you can play with that also; try lowering or raising it 5% at a time until you like it. As you get better at flying the nano you can raise the rates.
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I took a similar approach as Bensen. I tried the manual's 85% rates and it was too much for me. I'm running this:

Aileron 50% (+30 expo)
Elevator 50% (+30 expo)
Rudder 50% (INH)

I ran through 12 batteries yesterday alternating between my 2 nanos. The newer one was a bit more of a handful until I was prepared for it but I had no mishaps. I don't do any 3D, just alternating banked turns and figure 8's. By by the sixth battery I was really in a good place with them.

I also came from an MSR and MSRX. Once you get over the initial shock of these things being half psychotic you will really appreciate their consistency and capabilities, including wind resistance. Imagine turning left the same way you turn right for starters! Harder to control but when you crash it is your fault not the bird's quirky behavior. After 30+ flights (and plenty of initial crashes) I have yet to repair anything but the canopy on the older Nano. I wish I could say the same for my MSRX's.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:17 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default One more Question on hold

Thanks for the responses, I have my DX6i setup now just waiting on my bird. On the pitch curve for hold don't you want 50% for L 50% for 2 and 50% for mid stick? I thought with a setting like this the blades stay horizontal and will not go negative.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gpaw44 View Post
Thanks for the responses, I have my DX6i setup now just waiting on my bird. On the pitch curve for hold don't you want 50% for L 50% for 2 and 50% for mid stick? I thought with a setting like this the blades stay horizontal and will not go negative.
The idea of a 50% across-the-board pitch on the "hold" is to keep the blades flat (no pitch either way) when you pull the TH switch. Gives the least chance of damage from tail-boom strikes and is also a handy way to check for zero-pitch at mid-stick - just pull TH and you're there. The Nano can't really auto-rotate so it doesn't need any pitch when you've pulled TH, usually because a crash is imminent!
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Old 10-16-2013, 09:14 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I would not recommend the DR settings. Itīs always usefull to have enough pitch left to safe the heli in critical situations.
Also learn from fist step to have pitch either + or -. Probably not 10°-12° buit at least 8°.

To make the Nano more gentle, only use Expo. First 30-40% and lower it when you get used to it.

First, learn: pull TH when crashing ( the nano will take a lot of crashes before he gets damaged) and not stick down!.

What you should not do: - stick down in situations out of controll and keep the motor running while crashing.

I think, the Nano is perfekt to learn. It is resistant and not to twitchy.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:19 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Gpaw44
Thanks for the responses, I have my DX6i setup now just waiting on my bird. On the pitch curve for hold don't you want 50% for L 50% for 2 and 50% for mid stick? I thought with a setting like this the blades stay horizontal and will not go negative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wulfrun View Post
The idea of a 50% across-the-board pitch on the "hold" is to keep the blades flat (no pitch either way) when you pull the TH switch. Gives the least chance of damage from tail-boom strikes and is also a handy way to check for zero-pitch at mid-stick - just pull TH and you're there. The Nano can't really auto-rotate so it doesn't need any pitch when you've pulled TH, usually because a crash is imminent!
That's good for controlling damage, but when transitioning from a FP heli the first thing a newb needs to learn is to not chop throttle. Having TH set for a flat 50% curve doesn't encourage that discipline. However, smacking it into the ground a couple times with some negative does wonders for breaking that habit - and better you learn it now than with a bigger heli!
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Old 10-18-2013, 01:35 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I'm going to buck the trend here as a relative newbie. Too much expo caused me to overcorrect and chase the helicopter. My reflexes aren't 20 years old any more, but I do fly better with something that's more responsive.

My latest settings are around 70-75% D/R and 15% expo, and usually try to stay with idle-up & 100% rate outdoors. It's a bit twitchy but works well enough for me to get into FFF until I lose orientation as the tiny thing zips away.

It's good that the nano crashes so well. I was doing some living room hovering recently until my 6 year-old said, "maybe it's not such a good idea to fly that in the house for a while."
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Old 10-18-2013, 04:02 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepdr View Post
I'm going to buck the trend here as a relative newbie. Too much expo caused me to overcorrect and chase the helicopter. My reflexes aren't 20 years old any more, but I do fly better with something that's more responsive.

My latest settings are around 70-75% D/R and 15% expo, and usually try to stay with idle-up & 100% rate outdoors. It's a bit twitchy but works well enough for me to get into FFF until I lose orientation as the tiny thing zips away.

It's good that the nano crashes so well. I was doing some living room hovering recently until my 6 year-old said, "maybe it's not such a good idea to fly that in the house for a while."
15% Expo is about where I have mine set in Idle 1. In Idle 0 I set it for 10%. I have them there for the same reason as you, I tend to over correct if the sticks are too dead around center. It's all a matter of personal preference. I know a guy that uses positive Expo!
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Old 10-18-2013, 05:38 PM   #10 (permalink)
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If you fly in idle up consider lowering the head speed.
You could start with stunt throttle at 75 flat and pitch as per manual.
This makes it fly slower.
I'm trying a bit of inverted now and am trying a 100,75,70,75,100 throttle curve. It keeps it slow when flying around but can give more throttle just at the ends.
I'm a newbie too so ymmv.
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:15 PM   #11 (permalink)
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You might find the following e-book very useful. I highly recommend it, especially when you do consider staying in the hobby and going larger.
http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/rc-helicopter-tips.html

I also purchased the following e-book for the same reasons
http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/swashplate-setup.html

Both books helped me to understand how and why to set up my Helicopters the way I did. At first, I had problems with my first Helicopter 130x, 'cause at the time I bought the book (mentioned first), it did not include micros. However, after emailing him, he provided me with a link, in order to download the latest version.

FYI, the website itself is a good read too.
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:13 AM   #12 (permalink)
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To tame down the controls without sacrificing the ability to recover when you get going too fast try lowering the travel adjust instead of the DR setting. I'm a noob, but find the nano excellent for scale flying indoors with the following settings:

travel adjust set to 35% +/- (ail + ele)

DR0: 90, -15% expo
DR1: 115, +10% expo


Lowering DR too much leaves you chasing the heli as opposed to leading the heli.
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Old 10-24-2013, 05:48 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giiba View Post
To tame down the controls without sacrificing the ability to recover when you get going too fast try lowering the travel adjust instead of the DR setting. I'm a noob, but find the nano excellent for scale flying indoors with the following settings:

travel adjust set to 35% +/- (ail + ele)

DR0: 90, -15% expo
DR1: 115, +10% expo


Lowering DR too much leaves you chasing the heli as opposed to leading the heli.
In the process of compiling a "DX6i for dummies guide" (https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=572038), so very interested in a thread like "Docile Nano settings for the DX6i"

In short, DO NOT change travel adjust (aka. TA) nor sub-trim.

TA and sub-trim are used to extend/limit the signals from the DX6i to the heli. Allow full transmission range and limit within the DX6i with DR. TA +50% (left and right AILE) +50% (up and down ELEV) with DR 100% is the same effect as default TA and DR 50%.

Raising expo is what leaves you chasing corrections (won't move, won't move, oops too much).

Expo is not a measure of proficiency (don't fall into that trap), it is a means to adjust the "feel" of connectedness to a heli round mid-stick without sacrificing max control range. It's a tool, not a measure.

My docile settings for a Nano CPX are:
  • Model Type: HELI
  • Model Name: NANO
  • Swash: 1 SERVO 90°
  • D/R Combi: D/R SW: Rudd DR
  • Reverse: Pitch
  • Timer: 4:00 Trainer
  • ThroCur (0, 40, 60, 80, 100 - 100, 100, 100, 100, 100 - 10)
  • PitcCur (30, 40, 50, 75, 100 - 0, 25, 50, 75, 100 - 0, 25, 50, 75, 100)
  • Aile/Elev DR&expo (60/30 - 85/30)
  • Rudd DR&expo (85/0 - 100/0)
(When comfortable on DR 85, move to DR 100)

Extended this look like:
Setup List:
  • Model Type: Heli
  • Reverse: THRO-N, AILE-N, ELEV-N, RUDD-N, GYRO-N, PITC-R
  • Swash Type: 1 Servo 90
  • Timer: 4:00 Basic flying, 3:00 Advanced Flying
Adjust List:
  • DR&EXPO:
    • 0-AILE 60% 30%
    • 0-ELEV 60% 30%
    • 0-RUDD 85% INH
    • 1-AILE 85% 30%
    • 1-ELEV 85% 30%
    • 1-RUDD 100% INH
  • Thro Curve
    • Norm 0% 40% 60% 80% 100%
    • Stunt 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%
    • Hold 10% 10% 10% 10% 10%
  • Pitc Curve
    • Norm 30% 40% 50% 75% 100%
    • Stunt 0% 25% 50% 75% 100%
    • Hold 0% 25% 50% 75% 100%

DR is the PRIMARY way of making settings docile for a heli. Initially reduce the DR till comfortable, then as you get more comfortable with control, gradually increase the DR. If you want to make it as docile (range wise as giiba posted) set DR 0 to 32 (expo -15) and DR 1 to 40 (expo 10). I STRONGLY advise AGAINST negative expo on a DX6i unless you know what you are doing.

With 2 DR settings switchable on the Rudder DR switch you can experiment with more sensitive controls without having to learn Idle-Up flying at the same time. You can experiment in flight by having a "comfortable" and a "stretch" setting.

Usually 2 DR's are used for hover/land and Forward flight. Why not use this to your advantage.


(btw, if you want to learn to fly, and fly comfortable, take a look at "From tail-in to all 8s and funnels in 6 months" (https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=531380). It is a step by step guide on the training I used to get from basics to advanced flying (at minimal cost)).


* sorry for the long post *

Hope this helps.
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:46 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
In short, DO NOT change travel adjust (aka. TA) nor sub-trim.

TA and sub-trim are used to extend/limit the signals from the DX6i to the heli. Allow full transmission range and limit within the DX6i with DR. TA +50% (left and right AILE) +50% (up and down ELEV) with DR 100% is the same effect as default TA and DR 50%.
I see what you're saying archmage but I disagree. With a flybarless heli your stick input is better thought of as a rate of change. If you push a little the FBL unit tilts slowly that direction and if you push a lot it tilts quickly that direction. So reducing DR to 90% isn't reducing the overall throw distance the servos move, it is restricting input speed to a maximum of 90%. Now this does help slow the heli down and help out newbies (me too!), but this doesn't help keep the heli from going wildly out-o-control as they are so want to do.

Travel adjust on the other hand effects the overall throw distance of the servos. At 100% TA my nano can tilt itself 90 degrees (or more, I don't know) to the horizon. The problem arises when you have DR low and correcting from that extreme tilt takes too long. At 30% TA my nano tilts maybe a max of 30 degrees, limiting how far I can get into troublie. Now I'm sure 3D flight isn't possible at this TA setting by for a beginner working on scale flight and orientations it sure helps.

Try both of these options:
1. DR 30 TA 100
2. DR 100 TA 30

no expo

First they are not the same. You will find #1 almost dangererous in it's lack of control, while #2 limits your speed but is controlable and docile. In short travel adjust changes the max tilt angle, while DR changes the speed you can move through that range. Don't believe me? Try the above then tell me that example #1 is flyable.


After much experimentation I run (TA @ 34%) with the following DR/expo:
0: 90%DR -15expo
1: 115%DR +10expo
Flying exclusively sport and scale, no 3d.
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:00 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giiba View Post
I see what you're saying archmage but I disagree.
...
Travel adjust on the other hand effects the overall throw distance of the servos. At 100% TA my nano can tilt itself 90 degrees (or more, I don't know) to the horizon. The problem arises when you have DR low and correcting from that extreme tilt takes too long. At 30% TA my nano tilts maybe a max of 30 degrees, limiting how far I can get into troublie. Now I'm sure 3D flight isn't possible at this TA setting by for a beginner working on scale flight and orientations it sure helps.

Try both of these options:
1. DR 30 TA 100
2. DR 100 TA 30

no expo

First they are not the same. You will find #1 almost dangererous in it's lack of control, while #2 limits your speed but is controlable and docile. In short travel adjust changes the max tilt angle, while DR changes the speed you can move through that range. Don't believe me? Try the above then tell me that example #1 is flyable.
"In short travel adjust changes the max tilt angle". Not on a nano with the AS3X in control.

OK, your challenge was accepted. I tried tonight.

I understand your argument, but I believe it is false in that the TA limits are not transmitted by the TX to the nano (only the channel values). Therefore TA 30 with DR 100 (expo 0) should have the same channel output as TA 100 and DR 30 (expo 0).

The underlying AS3X is the same for a nano as it is for a mSRX. The following is as relevant for the nano as the mSRX.

From: "Blade mSR X Review – Micro Fixed Pitch Flybarless Fun!" http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/blade-msr-x.html

Quote:
An electronic flybarless stabilization systems works just like a heading lock tail gyro (they after all use the exact same heading lock gyro technology); so if you have read my write-up on heading lock gyros or my flybarless write-up , you'll have a better understanding of this. There are two very important things you have to understand with these electronic stabilization systems:

1. You are not in control of the cyclic servos, the AS3X gyros are! When you give a cyclic command on the radio, you are telling the gyros to allow the heli to move in a certain direction at a certain speed; they then move the swashplate servos to the required position to fulfill that command and are constantly monitoring both your instructions and what the bird is doing to keep both in sync.

2. These gyros operate in a feedback loop meaning the only time they will respond correctly is when the heli is up in the air and allowed to naturally move around. While on the ground when the heli is unable to move, strange things will appear to be taking place. If you hold in full right cyclic for example, while on the ground and the heli can’t move, the gyro gives a right cyclic command but detects no movement. It keeps holding in right cyclic even after you center your stick and the swash will remain tilted right if you have a close look at it - the gyro is confused. Now as soon as you lift off, there is a large component of right cyclic being held in by the gyro and the heli immediately shoots off hard to the right the instant you get light on the skids or leave the ground – sound familiar???
From this, since "You are not in control of the cyclic servos, the AS3X gyros are!", if you give a roll command, the servo will continue to try roll till the heli achieves the angle desired. This is ONLY in effect when throttle is not 0 (when TH engaged, the servos are disconnected from th gyros and are directly controlled by the TX).

I was willing to be disproved, therefore I tested

1. DR 30 TA 100
2. DR 100 TA 30

In BOTH cases the nano performed almost EXACTLY the same. (I usually fly TA 100, DR 100 expo 20).

Quote:
Originally Posted by giiba View Post
...
Try both of these options:
1. DR 30 TA 100
2. DR 100 TA 30
... Don't believe me? Try the above then tell me that example #1 is flyable.
I proved it. For the nano on a DX6i, #1 is flyable. AND it is as flyable and #2.

I took off in an area 1m x 1m, raised up over 1m, travelled to over the bed (2m x 2m flying area with 2m vertical clearance, did a slow pirouette (30 second duration), then flew back to the landing 1m x 1m area and landed.

Where I would have conceded you may have been correct is IF (and only IF) the TA values for each channel were transmitted during the bind process and the nano 3 in 1 board takes them to be channel limits. From my tests it does not.

I took a second nano, disconnected the main and tail motors and tested:

1. DR 10 TA 100
2. DR 100 TA 10

In both configurations, I started from 0 pitch (mid stick in stunt mode) with TH on. This makes the swash level. I disengaged TH and pulled full right aileron and timed how long it took to get to swash full right. In EACH configuration it took 3 seconds for the swash to get to full right throw.

So.

1) The nano does not care about TX travel adjust to limit servo throw.
2) There is no discernible flyable difference between DR 30 TA 100 and DR 100 TA 30

For a new flyer it is EASY to get TA wrong (you must adjust both sides of each axis (4 values) not just one value per axis (2 values) for DR). Both values for TA are not visible in the configuration screen unless you move the sticks while in the screen.

I stand my my initial statement for the nano "In short, DO NOT change travel adjust (aka. TA) nor sub-trim."

To make it docile, ONLY use DR to change the max roll and pitch speeds and adjust expo to keep your "connectedness" feel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by giiba View Post
...
After much experimentation I run (TA @ 34%) with the following DR/expo:
0: 90%DR -15expo
1: 115%DR +10expo
Flying exclusively sport and scale, no 3d.
Those are really tame settings. (I assume your TA is both left/right on aileron and forward/back on elevator).

"giiba", you must not be using a DX6i, as a DX6i can only get DR to 100%. Care to explain how the OP can get DR of 115% on a DX6i?

When I first started with the nano, I STARTED on TA 100, DR 75 expo 40. (switched from thumbs to pinch, and dropped expo to 20). Although I fly mild 3D, if I need to do precise hovering, I drop DR to 80 and up expo to 30.

(I am 45, so no teenage reflexes. I authored "From tail-in to all 8s and funnels in 6 months" (https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=531380) and flew all the demo videos for it, so what would I know )
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:12 PM   #16 (permalink)
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You are right about the transmitter, I'm using a Devo 6s flashed with deviationtx. It allows up to DR 125%. That being said, I never did use a dx6i so I may not be much help in this thread anyways.

Given your results, I'm going to need to do some more testing. I wonder if the transmitter has something to do with the difference? TA distinctly changes the max roll angle for my nano (and msrx, and mcpx). I don't doubt your knowledge, I'm rather new to this hobby and know what works for me purely from experimentation (which may be poorly interpreted).
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