Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > Blade Helicopters (eFlite) > Blade 450X


Blade 450X Blade 450X Helicopters Information and Help


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-08-2013, 05:03 PM   #1 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 56
 

Join Date: May 2012
Question To bearing mod or not to mod

I just bought myself the 450x as my first "Real" heli. I am unsure after reading all your guy's posts if I should do the bearing loctite mod or not as I have not even flown my new bird yet. I have seen posts of owners that have over 100+ flights without issue, and others with problems in less than 50 or so. I even saw one person comment when they took thier's apart to do the mod, there was no c-clip retainer installed from the factory. I was not sure if there has been any updates to the models being sold as of now vs early generations? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated as I am very much a noob, but I like to buy and maintain toys that will last me longer than poorly made or cheap toys.
P.S. I also noticed some speak of modifying the ESC and or use of hot glue to support a loose part? Thanks guys!
cantflygood is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-08-2013, 08:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 542
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jul 2012
Default

I haven't done anything with mine.

More than a few on this forum think the lube might aggravate the problem. I follow suit.

If it fails after 60 or 70 flights, by that time I'll be ready to upgrade to the eflite 450 motor (because my skills will be SO much better).
__________________
Realflight 6, Phoenix, DX8
mCPX v2, Blade 450x, KDS Innova 450sd, KDS Innova 550 v2
Syko is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-09-2013, 03:25 AM   #3 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 5,770
 

Join Date: Apr 2012
Default

The ESC mod would consist of installing a step down diode for the tail servo (which cannot run at 6V) and switching the ESC to 6V to minimize the risk of VUS which would cause a brownout.

The hot glue can be applied at the base of the capacitor which comes out of the ESC/SBEC, where it is soldered to the PCB, inside the heat shrink, to avoid that vibrations make it loose.

I strongly suggest both very easy mods.
__________________
Oxy 2X-VertWarp 360Blade 450XBlade 450X NightflyerGoblin 500 ♦ 2 X mCPX v2 ♦ night fly mQXLadyMQXnano QXnano QX FPVInductrixDX8 G1
Coco66 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-09-2013, 09:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 56
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: May 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syko View Post
I haven't done anything with mine.

More than a few on this forum think the lube might aggravate the problem. I follow suit.

If it fails after 60 or 70 flights, by that time I'll be ready to upgrade to the eflite 450 motor (because my skills will be SO much better).
I was hoping someone would say leave well enough alone on that mod for now.
On another tangent- how did your Fusuno custom painted canopy turn out? I was interested to see some teeth. I used to paint cars, now just run the office and paint a few customs on the side. I was thinking for the price of buying the EX canopy unpainted.
Thanks for the reply!
cantflygood is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-09-2013, 09:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 56
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: May 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coco66 View Post
The ESC mod would consist of installing a step down diode for the tail servo (which cannot run at 6V) and switching the ESC to 6V to minimize the risk of VUS which would cause a brownout.

The hot glue can be applied at the base of the capacitor which comes out of the ESC/SBEC, where it is soldered to the PCB, inside the heat shrink, to avoid that vibrations make it loose.

I strongly suggest both very easy mods.


What would your opinion be on replacing the cheap plastic geared tail servo instead of the diode installation? Then just flip the switch so to say and run back through the beast set up? If this would be a better option what servo would you recommend?

Also any chance there is a video clip or thread detailing the hot glue capacitor trick?

Lastly I just have to say thanks for the people running this forum, and the great wealth of knowledge the visitors are willing to share with such a noob to the hobby as myself!
cantflygood is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-10-2013, 01:20 AM   #6 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 5,770
 

Join Date: Apr 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cantflygood View Post
What would your opinion be on replacing the cheap plastic geared tail servo instead of the diode installation? Then just flip the switch so to say and run back through the beast set up? If this would be a better option what servo would you recommend?

Also any chance there is a video clip or thread detailing the hot glue capacitor trick?

Lastly I just have to say thanks for the people running this forum, and the great wealth of knowledge the visitors are willing to share with such a noob to the hobby as myself!
The stock tail servo is actually a good one, only small disadvantage is this not running at 6V.
The step dow diode mod is very easy and cheap if you buy the one with the servo plugs already installed (search the forum for details), so I would suggest this mod first, then maybe upgrade the tail servo when and if it strips/burns out later.

In that case... again, search the forum, alternative servos are discussed again and again... almost every week: Hitec 5084MG, MKS DS95i and Savox SH026MG seem to be the most popular ones, IIRC. I used to run a Hitec, now I run the MKS.
__________________
Oxy 2X-VertWarp 360Blade 450XBlade 450X NightflyerGoblin 500 ♦ 2 X mCPX v2 ♦ night fly mQXLadyMQXnano QXnano QX FPVInductrixDX8 G1
Coco66 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-10-2013, 02:41 PM   #7 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: May 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cantflygood View Post
What would your opinion be on replacing the cheap plastic geared tail servo instead of the diode installation? Then just flip the switch so to say and run back through the beast set up? If this would be a better option what servo would you recommend?

Also any chance there is a video clip or thread detailing the hot glue capacitor trick?

Lastly I just have to say thanks for the people running this forum, and the great wealth of knowledge the visitors are willing to share with such a noob to the hobby as myself!
Look at the 330 uF, 35V electrolytic capacitor on the battery lead side of the ESC....

You can't miss it.....it hangs off the end of the ESC PCB...which is the issue.
Look at where the leads are soldered to the PCB.

There is no support from the PCB so vibrations cause metal fatigue at the junction of the capacitor leads and the solder pad on the PCB.

All you need to do is to lay on a "blob" of hot glue so that the "can" of the capacitor is glued to the PCB. Don't worry if you "bridge" the capacitor leads with the glue "blob". That won't hurt anything...

FWIW
EEngineer is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-11-2013, 12:31 AM   #8 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 56
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: May 2012
Default

EEngineer,

Thanks for the info, I now have something easy to due this weekend!
cantflygood is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-14-2013, 04:16 PM   #9 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 549
 

Join Date: Aug 2011
Default

FWIW i took my motor apart after 3 flights to add locktite. After only 3 flight you could see wear on the shaft from it spinning inside the bearing.
B
Lowenslow is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-14-2013, 05:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 122
 

Join Date: Dec 2012
Default Re: To bearing mod or not to mod

I've just completed the loctite motor mod on mine and I would strongly recommend doing it. It solved the vibe problems I was having and it only takes about 30 minutes to pull the motor and apply the loctite (although you should wait 24 hours for the loctite to fully cure). I would also suggest putting loctite on the flybarless follower arm screws, as they will eventually loosen without it and cause vibrations that will mess with the AR7200BX.

In my opinion, 30 minutes of your time isn't worth a pair of CF blades and a main shaft. I had a set of Radix blades get chewed up when the 450X tipped over on spool up because of the right tilting of the swash caused by the vibrations interfering with the AR7200BX. The tip over also bent the main shaft.

Also, I don't know if you've actually read any of the write-ups on performing the loctite motor mod, but a few tips:

-Apply red loctite to the inner race on both the upper and lower bearings.

-Use the eye of a sewing needle to apply the loctite.

-Make sure you don't use too much loctite because it could run over the edges of the inner race which could bind the bearing. (A sewing needle eye full of loctite is enough to get the job done.)

-When reinstalling the motor, set the pinion backlash with two screws in the motor mount. Apply blue loctite to and install the other two motor mount screws, then loctite the first two screws.

My 450X is only a month and a half old, so it appears as though they haven't yet fixed these issues from the factory. I only had about 15 packs through it before I started having the vibration issues.
__________________
Mikado Logo 700 Xxtreme, Synergy N5c, Blade 450X, Blade Nano CP X
Spektrum DX8
kennyd1gital is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-17-2013, 10:55 PM   #11 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 56
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: May 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowenslow View Post
FWIW i took my motor apart after 3 flights to add locktite. After only 3 flight you could see wear on the shaft from it spinning inside the bearing.
B
Nice! Sounded too good to be true to leave it alone. Thanks!
cantflygood is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-17-2013, 11:02 PM   #12 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 56
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: May 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyd1gital View Post
I've just completed the loctite motor mod on mine and I would strongly recommend doing it. It solved the vibe problems I was having and it only takes about 30 minutes to pull the motor and apply the loctite (although you should wait 24 hours for the loctite to fully cure). I would also suggest putting loctite on the flybarless follower arm screws, as they will eventually loosen without it and cause vibrations that will mess with the AR7200BX.

In my opinion, 30 minutes of your time isn't worth a pair of CF blades and a main shaft. I had a set of Radix blades get chewed up when the 450X tipped over on spool up because of the right tilting of the swash caused by the vibrations interfering with the AR7200BX. The tip over also bent the main shaft.

Also, I don't know if you've actually read any of the write-ups on performing the loctite motor mod, but a few tips:

-Apply red loctite to the inner race on both the upper and lower bearings.

-Use the eye of a sewing needle to apply the loctite.

-Make sure you don't use too much loctite because it could run over the edges of the inner race which could bind the bearing. (A sewing needle eye full of loctite is enough to get the job done.)

-When reinstalling the motor, set the pinion backlash with two screws in the motor mount. Apply blue loctite to and install the other two motor mount screws, then loctite the first two screws.

My 450X is only a month and a half old, so it appears as though they haven't yet fixed these issues from the factory. I only had about 15 packs through it before I started having the vibration issues.
Kenny,

I apreciate the info, I went to the hobby shop the day after your post & bought red and blue loc-tite. I saw a video on you tube for the bearing mod, but looks like he only did the lower bearing. Sounds like red loc-tite for bearing to shaft, and blue for any metal to metal retention? Also on the video I watched it seamed that when you put the shaft back through the bearing, most of the loc-tite would scrape off the shaft wouldn't it?
Thanks for the reply and helpful tips, including the motor mount screw trick!
cantflygood is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-17-2013, 11:58 PM   #13 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 122
 

Join Date: Dec 2012
Default Re: To bearing mod or not to mod

Quote:
Originally Posted by cantflygood View Post
I saw a video on you tube for the bearing mod, but looks like he only did the lower bearing.
I would recommend doing both. The lower bearing is the one causing the vibes, I think, but I went ahead and did both anyway for redundancy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cantflygood View Post
Sounds like red loc-tite for bearing to shaft, and blue for any metal to metal retention?
That is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cantflygood View Post
Also on the video I watched it seamed that when you put the shaft back through the bearing, most of the loc-tite would scrape off the shaft wouldn't it?
Some of the loctite will probably rub off on the shaft, but enough will remain on the race to bind it to the shaft. The thing you want to be careful of is not to use too much because then when you slide the shaft through, some of it might run over the edge of the inner race and get into the bearing. You should be fine using the eye of a sewing needle to apply the loctite. Filling the eye of the needle should be just enough to coat the inside of the inner race. Fill the eye and apply to the upper bearing inner race, then fill the eye again and apply to the lower bearing inner race.

Also, when you go to put the shaft back through the bearings once the loctite is applied, it may take a little force to get the shaft seated on the bearings, because the red loctite has now filled in the small gap that was between the inner race and the shaft. Just be sure to push the motor/bearings all the way back into the housing/onto the shaft in one motion. Try not to slide the bearings back and forth on the shaft once the loctite has been applied.

Lastly, take your time with it and think your way through each step before you do it. Good luck! Let us know how it goes!
__________________
Mikado Logo 700 Xxtreme, Synergy N5c, Blade 450X, Blade Nano CP X
Spektrum DX8
kennyd1gital is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-18-2013, 08:51 PM   #14 (permalink)
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coco66 View Post

In that case... again, search the forum, alternative servos are discussed again and again... almost every week: Hitec 5084MG, MKS DS95i and Savox SH026MG seem to be the most popular ones, IIRC. I used to run a Hitec, now I run the MKS.
Was there anything wrong or you didn't like about the Hitec servo? Why the switch?
helifanatic99 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-19-2013, 12:43 AM   #15 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 5,770
 

Join Date: Apr 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by helifanatic99 View Post
Was there anything wrong or you didn't like about the Hitec servo? Why the switch?
The Hitec was just dying... could not get rid of tail shake during FFF and fast right turns (no, neither reducing gain nor pot 3 helped, it was the servo).
__________________
Oxy 2X-VertWarp 360Blade 450XBlade 450X NightflyerGoblin 500 ♦ 2 X mCPX v2 ♦ night fly mQXLadyMQXnano QXnano QX FPVInductrixDX8 G1
Coco66 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-19-2013, 01:49 AM   #16 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 122
 

Join Date: Dec 2012
Default Re: To bearing mod or not to mod

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coco66 View Post
The Hitec was just dying... could not get rid of tail shake during FFF and fast right turns (no, neither reducing gain nor pot 3 helped, it was the servo).
I'm guessing this could be part of the problem I'm having with getting my tail dialed in. How do you like the MKS servo? I'm thinking about getting some to replace the stock servos in my 450X.
__________________
Mikado Logo 700 Xxtreme, Synergy N5c, Blade 450X, Blade Nano CP X
Spektrum DX8
kennyd1gital is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-19-2013, 01:55 AM   #17 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 5,770
 

Join Date: Apr 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyd1gital View Post
I'm guessing this could be part of the problem I'm having with getting my tail dialed in. How do you like the MKS servo? I'm thinking about getting some to replace the stock servos in my 450X.
I actually had bought it for my coming Warp... then just used it when needed.
I have now some 50 flights on it and very happy (but the Hitec was as good from what I can tell, I'm ot good enough to judge the differences).
__________________
Oxy 2X-VertWarp 360Blade 450XBlade 450X NightflyerGoblin 500 ♦ 2 X mCPX v2 ♦ night fly mQXLadyMQXnano QXnano QX FPVInductrixDX8 G1
Coco66 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-19-2013, 02:31 AM   #18 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Default

Lubrication of the bearings - not with thin and watery.
__________________
Trex :- 450SE V2 retired, 250SC retired, 450 PRO fbled Airwolfed, 500 ESP fbled Airwolfed, 250DFC, 450DFC, 500DFC, 800DFC. M690l, MR25P - Futaba/Align. Blade :- 4003D retired,CX2, MQX, 350QX v3 - spektrum. 4503D, 450X - spektrum/Savox.
jimmanyk is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-19-2013, 09:01 AM   #19 (permalink)
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coco66 View Post
I actually had bought it for my coming Warp... then just used it when needed.
I have now some 50 flights on it and very happy (but the Hitec was as good from what I can tell, I'm ot good enough to judge the differences).
Did you crash the Hitec servo? From what I've read, those are supposed to be some pretty tough metal geared servos.
helifanatic99 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-20-2013, 10:48 PM   #20 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 56
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: May 2012
Default

Thanks Kenny,
Bearing mod is now completed, and I only had one bone-head move- that was installing the motor mount before the pinion gear during reinstallation. Easy enough though overall, next I still need to hot glue the capacitor on the ESC and find the right diode for the tail servo.
I still haven't even had a chance for good weather to fly this thing yet!
__________________
DX9, Phoenix 5 sim, Blade 120sr, nano cpx, Blade 130x, Blade 450x
cantflygood is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply




Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the HeliFreak forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your REAL and WORKING email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Use a real email address or you will not be granted access to the site. Thank you.
Email Address:
Location
Where do you live? ie: Country, State, City or General Geographic Location please.
Name and Lastname
Enter name and last name here. (This information is not shown to the general public. Optional)
Helicopter #1
Enter Helicopter #1 type and equipment.
Helicopter #2
Enter Helicopter #2 type and equipment.
Helicopter #3
Enter Helicopter #3 type and equipment.
Helicopter #4
Enter Helicopter #4 type and equipment.

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright © Website Acquisitions Inc. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1