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Old 03-26-2013, 06:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default I am having trouble with the control Rod and Bell Crank assemblies.

Page 20 in the manual

First i see they say to use 8x3x1mm washers on the end of the control rod. The bearing in the bell cranks OD is 8mm so it binds on the outer race.

Second, i tried dry assembling everything in the bell cranks without the washers to see how things are working. Tons of side to side slop on both right and left bell cranks. The frames are snug against the bearing blocks. If they werent I think i would have some binding, not slop. Even if the right and left bell crank were fine, the elevator a arm can move side to side. I know that there are screws to secure it but I would have thought that would be the same width as the interior of the frames. I remember when I built my other heli with the same set up of bell cranks the a arm was the inner width of the frame and the outer bell cranks were solid on the control rod. However that one came with a few thin washers to put on the control rod to eliminate any slop there still may be.

What have I screwed up?
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:13 PM   #2 (permalink)
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can you post a picture please?
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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When you say slop, do you mean the elevator control arm is moving? Hang in there, we'll help you.

First, there should be no slop, this is controlled by two things:

1. Centering the elevator control rod and making sure the bolts are in the flat spots, but not tight until the bell cranks are installed.

2. The spacer and the elevator bell crank. The spacer must be installed and the elevator bell crank should not be tightened until the the screws holding the bell cranks on the elevator control rod are tightened--this ensures centering. Make sure when you tighten the elevator bell crank that the set screws go into the flat spots on the elevator control rod.

Only when you're done with this can you tighten the bolts for the elevator control arm. Tighten both, remove one, apply thread lock tighten, hen repeat with the other bolt.

When you do it this way, it's almost impossible to have slop and a mis-centered elevator control rod.

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Old 03-26-2013, 06:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I dont have a camera right know.

Is it making sense what I am explaining?

In order from left of the heli on the control rod I have assembled :

Left bell crank
Spacer thingy
Flanged frame bearing with the flange on the inside of the frame.
The part of the A-arm assembly that locks onto the control rod
flanged frame bearing with flange on the inside of the frame
Elevator bell crank
Right bell crank

As i said in the other post I have the 2x M3 x 5mm in the ends of the control rod without the washers as the washers were causing binding. I just tried it with for arguments sake and the slop in the bell cranks is still there.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:47 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunkonu23 View Post
When you say slop, do you mean the elevator control arm is moving? Hang in there, we'll help you.

First, there should be no slop, this is controlled by two things:

1. Centering the elevator control rod and making sure the bolts are in the flat spots, but not tight until the bell cranks are installed.

2. The spacer and the elevator bell crank. The spacer must be installed and the elevator bell crank should not be tightened until the the screws holding the bell cranks on the elevator control rod are tightened--this ensures centering. Make sure when you tighten the elevator bell crank that the set screws go into the flat spots on the elevator control rod.

Only when you're done with this can you tighten the bolts for the elevator control arm. Tighten both, remove one, apply thread lock tighten, hen repeat with the other bolt.

When you do it this way, it's almost impossible to have slop and a mis-centered elevator control rod.

Scott
I am doing it in exactly that order. Elevator and A-arm are loose and then I tighten the two bolts on the end of the control rod. I havent gone past this point because the control rod can move side to side about 1mm.

A-arm seems to be fine BTW now if I can get past this control arm thing.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:48 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Micheal... This sounds like it's a classic case of the elevator control rod not being centered. Try what I posted then get back to us. Also, make sure you're using the right sized washer. The washer must be there. If you're certain the assembly is centered, there is an outside chance you may have to lightly sand the end of the spacer, but we'd like you to try the steps I listed before going that far.

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Old 03-26-2013, 06:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelinpr View Post
I am doing it in exactly that order. Elevator and A-arm are loose and then I tighten the two bolts on the end of the control rod. I havent gone past this point because the control rod can move side to side about 1mm.

A-arm seems to be fine BTW now if I can get past this control arm thing.
If you're certain it's all centered, what I did was push the elevator bell crank up against the bearing and tighten. There is also the chance that the slop is from the flat spots on the elevator control rod inner screws sliding around. Tighten one and see what happens with the slop.

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Old 03-26-2013, 07:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Also, please check out the tech tip video on the bellcranks. Note that I had to exaggerate the slop and freeness, but it does show you how things should work.

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Old 03-26-2013, 07:56 PM   #9 (permalink)
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i got it working now but was unable to fix the problem with what I had.

I foolowed the same steps you listed but added a 0.75mm washer to one side of the control rod. Smooth as butter and no slop.

At one point you mentioned sanding something. Wouldnt that make more slop?

If one tightens both bolts on the control rod with all the set screws loose, should things not center themselves?

Also for now I still do not have the washers on the bolts. If I put them they touch the outer race of the bearing in the bell crank and bind. I will get some smaller OD ones later before I fly. I am not sure how this worked out for you guys. Yes I am using the correct washer. I measured with my digital calipers. 7.8mm. Exactly the same size as the outer race of the bearing.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:35 PM   #10 (permalink)
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It works with the stock washers. And you're right it _should_ be centered, but the elevator bell crank is what gets you. It needs to be against the bearing on the frame and in the correct orientation--that way the bell crank can slide in further on the elevator control rod.

When I first built mine, I had a heck of time with it, but when I figured out about the elevator bell crank, it just worked itself out and the stock washers worked fine.

Sanding the spacer allows the elevator control arm to protrude further from the bearings on the outer bell cranks and that means you can use the stock washers and not put pressure on the outer race. That should NOT be necessary but with really tight tolerances, sometimes that spacer can be just a tiny bit too long.

If you watch the tech tip video, you'll see how the bell cranks should be--it's right at the start of the video. The rest of the video deals with sanding the spacer and making it work that way.

Hang in there, Michael--we'll help you!

I do have to get to bed now (my work hours are sick!), but I'm certain someone else will chime in if you decided to continue tonight. If not, hang in there, we won't leave you hanging!

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Old 03-26-2013, 09:18 PM   #11 (permalink)
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the question about the size of the washer being the same size as the bearing has come up a few times Michael. trust Scott, it works perfect with the correct washers. if its binding with the correct washer this mean you will need to lightly sand the spacer. please , please sand it a little and retest fitment. this way you will not over do it. we have had a few people that had to sand down this spacer to get the bellcranks correct. i personally had no issues.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:45 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Thanks Scott and Mike. I will disassemble and try again torrow
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:59 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Michael, i know its frustrating when it just doesn't go together how you like. but its going to take less then 10min. to fix this properly.
what you need to do is...
make sure A arm is lose
make sure bell crank is lose on the right side
assemble left side of the bell cranks with the correct washer in place.
once this is done you can work on getting this to work smoothly.
what i need you to do is get some mild sand paper or something that isnt crazy abrasive that you can use to sand the spacer. so what i need you to do is try sanding the spacer some and reinstall it, and reinstall the bolt with the correct washer and try it. repeat this till its correct.
im sorry you are having issue, i wish i could be there to fix this real quick for ya bro. i hate road blocks. but man when it works right, it will be real smooth and you will not have to touch it again.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:07 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I had this too and had to file the spacer down a tad. I'm also very concerned about the washers on the ends of the bell crank shaft. I had to manually hold it exactly at centre while tightening up the bolts otherwise like you, the washers would bind on the outer race of the bell crank bearing. I'm terrified that the washer might slip and bind in flight. I may remove them and use a smaller outer diameter washer from somewhere.
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:41 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Here's something I thought of last night when I was just about asleep... you may want to take that into account...

Washers are usually stamped, so that means one side has a sharp edge and the other has a rounded edge. If you have the sharp edge of the washer facing the bearing, try flipping it over. I didn't have to do that and I'm pretty sure nobody else has had to do it, but with the concerns, you may want to try it.

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Old 03-27-2013, 07:02 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I'll give it a go. I'd always noticed the curved side, but assumed it was the way they were made - never realised it was by design! I think I tried both ways. The trouble is, the ID was a little bigger than the bolt OD so it doesn't sit perfectly centered. It hangs under it's weight so when tightening up, it actually grips the bell crank, rather than the bearing inner race. They are really tight so the washer shouldn't move, but if it ever does it will spell disaster I might source a 7mm OD 1mm washer so there is more room between the ID of the bellcrank and the OD of the washer.

EDIT: The washers that go into the metal "Alees" engraved motor brace are M3 x 7 x 0.8mm. I'll borrow one of them to see if it helps the problem. If so I'll see if I can sweet talk Charley into sending me a couple of spares
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:30 PM   #17 (permalink)
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How are you making out with the bell cranks?

Scott
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:15 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Just an FYI, I thought I had fitting issues with the bell cranks and the spacer but it turns out that I really just needed to center the elevator control arm/the shaft the bell crank screws screw into. I tightened them down until the bell cranks moved freely on both sides. After I found the sweet spot, I loosened, applied thread lock and then re-tightened. Then I finally tightened down the elevator control arm.

So, for me, it wasn't anything wrong with the parts, it was just how I was fitting them together. That may also be the case here, it may not, but I'm just throwing this out there.
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:37 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Good information, Life! Thanks for sharing your experience. It's valuable to share experiences like yours so folks know it can be done.

Scott
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:45 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Yeah, I just don't want to see anyone sand down the spacer and then go back to fit everything and now there's slop when initially, it would have been fine if they adjusted it a few times. Now they have bigger issues.

I mean, I was very close to doing that myself.
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