Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > Mikado Logo Helicopters


Mikado Logo Helicopters Mikado Logo Helicopters Discussion


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-15-2007, 02:43 AM   #1 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 796
 

Join Date: May 2006
Default New Build Report on Logo 500 3D

Background:
After owning my TREX 450SE for about 14 months I decided that it was time to try a larger heli. Nitro is not for me at this time and the TREX 600E was just a bit too big and demanding on the currently available power systems (6S anyway).



The Logo 500 appealed to me from the start, but I just donít like to be the early adopter ďguinea pigĒ any more and happily waited for others to work through the teething pains. These turned out to be minor (motor mount/gear stripping issue) and Mikado quickly addressed it by upgrading to a FREE AL motor mount and including the more robust mod 0.7 main gear from the 600. I was VERY impressed by this response from Mikado and it definitely influenced my purchase decision. Other manufacturers can definitely learn from this and the next time I have to wait and then pay for a needed upgrade/fix Iíll feel much worse about it!

The last data point that allowed me to pull the trigger on this purchase was the release of the TREX 500 specifications and photos. Simply put, the TREX 500 is NOT a competitor to the Logo 500.
The TREX 500 is a much smaller and lighter heli than the Logo 500 (it uses 425mm to maybe 480mm blades whereas the Logo uses 500mm to 560mm) and it simply is not a big enough change from the 450 to warrant the upgrade expense for me. Iím not saying anything against the TREX 500, itís simply smaller than what I wanted.

Build:

The kit arrived and here are some thoughts in no particular order:
- The build was quick and EASY!! Low parts count and simple, functional German engineering.
- Parts fit very well with really impressive tolerances on everything.
- Yes, just about everything is plastic. (So those hooked on ďblingĒ and carbon may not be happy.) I must say that this plastic, and in fact overall design, reminds me of German military weapons that use extensive plastic (Glock, Heckler and Koch, ETC) and that I have no perception of cheap quality from the kit. On the contrary, every part seems better engineered with better tolerances than the Align ones and there is no slop in the head at all.
- There is a proper place for everything (servos, rx, gyro) and setup and serviceability could not be easier.
- The only real ďmodificationĒ I made was to attach the landing gear using nylon screws. In some early crash reports from others, the frame would break where the landing gear attaches, so I hope these nylon screws will let go before the frame breaks if, OK when I put it in!
- And, Larger heliís are easier to work on!!




Parts and cost:

This is what I hope will be the most helpful to others considering the Logo (or any new heli). The initial kit cost is just the start, and Iíve tried to include everything to give a realistic idea of what getting into a larger e-heli will cost. (The prices are what I paid.)

Many of us in the hobby kid ourselves (or at least our significant others! ;-) ) on the true costs.
Remember that these are my final parts choices. If you start cheap, take the upgrade path and end up buying things multiple times till youíre satisfied, your costs will end up being much higher! Iíve already purchased what turned out to be the wrong blades, battery and a few misc items totaling over $200 in wasted time and money to get to this final setup that Iím sharing (more in notes later).

Logo 500:

Logo 500 kit $399
Hacker A40-10L $119
16T Mod 0.7 Pinion $20
Bullet Connectors $6
Phoenix 85HV $162
Hercules 5A BEC $40
Futaba 401/9254 $190
Align Stepdown for 9254 $4
Futaba BLS451 (x3) $266
Mikado Servo arms $15
AR7000 RX $75
RotorTech 550mm Blades $85
K & B Tail Blades $8
Mikado Hard Dampeners $4
Align 440mm Flybar $5
Nylon M3 Screws $0

Sub-total: $1,398

Batteries/Charger:
FP EVO25 5000 6S (x2) $540!
Bantum BC8 $239

Misc:
Large Pitch Gauge $25
Large Blade Balancer $20
Sticker kit for Canopy $25

Total: $2,247.00



Parts Notes:

Motor Ė Iím very happy with this motor choice! There is a slightly hotter A40-8L which would cost flight time and of course the Neuís at almost 3x the cost.

ESC Ė Jazz is another option at 2x cost.

Servos Ė Love these new brushless servos! Very precise and smooth. 147 oz/in and .010 sec at 6.0v These seem a great match for this application. Not bad at < $90/ea either!

Gyro Ė tried and true 401/9254 combo at a great price! Some day may upgrade to Spartan or even V-bar! ;-), but 401 is fine for my current needs and skill level.

Blades Ė I started with the Mikado 500mm blades and although not bad, they did not perform as I had hoped a heli of this size would. They were just a bit small for the weight of the 5000 packs and did not have the stability and performance I hoped for. The RotorTech 550mm blades are the only other ones Iíve tried so far and completely transformed the Logo into the machine I was hoping for! Great combination of stability and performance, but at the cost of a little flight time (details below). The hard Mikado dampeners are needed with these 550mm blades. Also, the longer Align 440mm flybar is a better match to the 550mm blades than the stock 400mm one.



Overall setup notes:

My goal was a moderate to advanced 3D setup to match my skill level and the above list is what met those needs. For a milder setup, the 500mm blades can yield 7 min flight times w/ a 5000 Lipo. For a more advanced setup, a hotter motor and smaller/lighter battery could yield almost 450-like performance, but of course w/ shorter (4 min?) flight times depending on setup.

My setup:

Pitch = +/- 13 deg.
Cyclic = max before binding.
HS = 2270 rpm Governed
AUW w/ 550mm, 5000 Lipo, & Canopy = 2,934 grams.

Flight times of moderate 3D average 5:35 min. (w/ 10 sec spool-up) and Iím averaging 3650 mA, or a conservative 73% back in the pack. I think this is a very good result for the level of performance delivered!

Flight impressions:

I LOVE IT!!!
(OK, more detailsÖ) It is a bit intimidating the first time you fly something almost 3 times larger than a TREX 450. Once in the air, everything just keeps getting better. It is much more stable, easier to see, and basically slows the time-scale down so that you have more time to think and control maneuvers. Using this particular setup, itís not quite as responsive as my 450, but is pretty close! My guess is that the Logo performs like a ďsports carĒ (OK, a German Sports Car!) version of the TREX 600E. Itís a bit smaller, lighter, and has a better power to weight ratio than the 600E which gives better flight times while being easier on the power system.

Another engineering improvement appears to be the herringbone gears. They are very quiet and make the heli appear to be running at a lower head speed than actual. The entire drive train also seems very efficient and spool down takes a very long time. Thereís an optional, huge, head button that covers the entire flybar holder. Itís not appealing and I didnít want the extra weight, so no head button. Maybe one of the few aftermarket opportunities? Itís interesting how few upgrades are available for the Logoís? Iím beginning to see that itís because they are not needed!

Summary:

The Logo 500 3D has met or exceeded my expectations. It looks to be a workhorse flying machine that can deliver as many flights as you have Lipoís and thatís really the only major downside. Lipoís are rapidly getting better and cheaper, so at least the situation is improveing. In the meantime, itís the price of flying a big e-heli. Other nit picking includes the slightly flimsy, albeit lightweight, canopy. Itís a bit awkward to get on and off, but gets a little better with practice.




I hope this was helpful and Iíll try to respond to questions when I can.

Also hope to get some video soon!

This is a great hobby and things are advancing so quickly that I can only imagine the technology weíll all be flying in the not so distant future! (V-bar?!?)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC04864.jpg
Views:	126
Size:	72.2 KB
ID:	30807   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC04922-1.jpg
Views:	162
Size:	82.4 KB
ID:	30808   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC04928-1.jpg
Views:	140
Size:	42.2 KB
ID:	30809   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC04931-1.jpg
Views:	113
Size:	41.9 KB
ID:	30810   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC04937-1.jpg
Views:	125
Size:	54.6 KB
ID:	30811  

zguy is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-15-2007, 05:17 AM   #2 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 56
 

Join Date: Jul 2007
Default

Nice review. However, if you like it now, wait until you put a V-bar on it. You'll love it.
Foamy Love is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-15-2007, 10:24 AM   #3 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 796
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: May 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foamy Love View Post
Nice review. However, if you like it now, wait until you put a V-bar on it. You'll love it.
Someday!
zguy is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-15-2007, 11:23 AM   #4 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 98
 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Default

I notice you mentioned that you need hard dampeners - do you mean it flies much better with them or is their a risk of a blade strike without them?
murp is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-15-2007, 12:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,937
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default

That was a great perspective and review! I'm placing an order for mine today along with the motor (Hacker A40-8L-8). I didn't know about the BLS451 servos but the specs look awesome and I just saw a review on them from Bert Kammerer ( http://www.bertrc.com/reviews/BLS451.php ) - thanks for the tip.

Can't wait to see some video.

Bruce
__________________
Logo 500 3D /Scorpion HK4020-1100KV (16T)/Jazz80/BLS451/Spartan DS760/BLS251/RT 560mm/AR9000
TRex 450SE
/Scorpion HK-2221-8 (13T)/ AlignESC35(X)/ HS65MG/Spartan DS760/S9650/AR6100
Spektrum DX7



BruceW is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-15-2007, 12:07 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 796
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: May 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by murp View Post
I notice you mentioned that you need hard dampeners - do you mean it flies much better with them or is their a risk of a blade strike without them?
When I went to the 550mm blades, there was a slight deflection or wobble coming out of hard collective transitions such as tic-tocs. I wasn't sure what to attribute it to, so I let a more advanced pilot give it a run and he suggested trying harder dampeners. I only have 3 flights since changing to the harder ones, but it appears to be solved!

I hope that over time it does not creep back as the dampeners wear in, but at least I now know what it is and it's a cheap fix!
zguy is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-15-2007, 12:13 PM   #7 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 796
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: May 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceW View Post
That was a great perspective and review! I'm placing an order for mine today along with the motor (Hacker A40-8L-8). I didn't know about the BLS451 servos but the specs look awesome and I just saw a review on them from Bert Kammerer ( http://www.bertrc.com/reviews/BLS451.php ) - thanks for the tip.

Can't wait to see some video.

Bruce
Thanks Bruce! Please post your results with the A40-8L and we'll try to see if it's really that much harder on the batteries.

Also, check out the SCHC thread over at R C Groups under mini-helis. Maybe you can come down and join us for a fun fly. It's a great group of guys and really nice field!
zguy is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-15-2007, 12:30 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,937
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default

I've been following the videos and photos from the SCHC for a while and keep wanting to come down. After the kids soccer season is over (playoffs right now) maybe I'll make the trip for the next funfly.

It looks like I'll probably string out my purchases for components to the 500 over two months since the holiday spending crunch is coming.
__________________
Logo 500 3D /Scorpion HK4020-1100KV (16T)/Jazz80/BLS451/Spartan DS760/BLS251/RT 560mm/AR9000
TRex 450SE
/Scorpion HK-2221-8 (13T)/ AlignESC35(X)/ HS65MG/Spartan DS760/S9650/AR6100
Spektrum DX7



BruceW is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-15-2007, 12:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,937
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default

Oh, another thing... I'm going to start with an EVOlite 6S 5350. Its lighter and from what I heard it can handle the load and give slightly longer flight times.
__________________
Logo 500 3D /Scorpion HK4020-1100KV (16T)/Jazz80/BLS451/Spartan DS760/BLS251/RT 560mm/AR9000
TRex 450SE
/Scorpion HK-2221-8 (13T)/ AlignESC35(X)/ HS65MG/Spartan DS760/S9650/AR6100
Spektrum DX7



BruceW is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-15-2007, 12:50 PM   #10 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 796
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: May 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceW View Post
Oh, another thing... I'm going to start with an EVOlite 6S 5350. Its lighter and from what I heard it can handle the load and give slightly longer flight times.
If I were to get another battery right now, that would be the one I'd like to try.

It's amazing how the amount of information we get can change opinion or awareness of a product so quickly. It took lots of research for me to put the Logo package together and I at least wanted some to benefit from it. Paying it forward for all the great help others have shared to make this hobby possible for me!
zguy is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-15-2007, 01:04 PM   #11 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,107
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: May 2006
Default

Very, very nice review. Job well done! Wesley was able to fly a Logo 500 at IRCHA SE and liked it, but it wasn't fully dialed in yet. Very nice, clean, simple helicopter.
__________________
Alan Haney
T-Rex 600E in 500E Hughes
Swift 16 Flybarless in Approach Cobra
Outrage 550..........Outrage G5........Phazor 600
In memory of: James Archer
wren1702 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-15-2007, 03:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 7,692
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: May 2006
Default

Very nice review!! I went with the Nylon landing gear screws as well on my 6003D.... good cheap insurance.
__________________
Just a guy and his heli....
LITHIUMSTATIC is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-15-2007, 03:57 PM   #13 (permalink)
HF Support
 
Posts: 14,099
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LITHIUMSTATIC View Post
Very nice review!! I went with the Nylon landing gear screws as well on my 6003D.... good cheap insurance.
Already saved a frame with this mod - nylon bolts tend to pull out of the metal nyloc nuts. Great review really enjoyed it - just started my 500 3D and if it gives half as much pleasure as its big sister there may be a few T600s on the market !
__________________
John
Mercuriell is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-15-2007, 04:28 PM   #14 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Aug 2006
Default

Quote:
Already saved a frame with this mod - nylon bolts tend to pull out of the metal nyloc nuts
__________________
A Helicopter, Brushless Motor, Esc, Battery, Servos, RX
Ticidytoc is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-16-2007, 08:42 PM   #15 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,856
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Apr 2004
Default

Great review! Did you do the canopy design yourself? looks very good!
Hulley is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-16-2007, 10:21 PM   #16 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 796
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: May 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulley View Post
Great review! Did you do the canopy design yourself? looks very good!
Thanks!

Canopy decals are from http://www.callie-graphics.com/helic...php?model=Logo
zguy is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-18-2007, 08:24 AM   #17 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,401
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Mar 2007
Default

Great review!
Clear, well-considered, and fun to read

Thanks!
__________________
One day I got stung, and now I love rotor sounds...Team RIGIDHELI.COM
T-Rex 700N Pro, Compass 7HV ult., MSH PRTOS
EricW is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-18-2008, 08:35 PM   #18 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,856
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Apr 2004
Default

Hey Zguy, how is the Logo holding up? I'm thinking about pulling the trigger soon on one of these. Any thing you would've done differntly? esc? motor? servos?
Hulley is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-18-2008, 08:52 PM   #19 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 796
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: May 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulley View Post
Hey Zguy, how is the Logo holding up? I'm thinking about pulling the trigger soon on one of these. Any thing you would've done differntly? esc? motor? servos?
Yeah...V-BAR :wink: Someday

Seriously, The updates are in this post https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...563#post480563

I'm at 82 flights and am very happy to report have had zero issues.

There's a bit of play in the head, whereas it was completely solid when new, but it's not bad or progressing quickly at this point.

Of course when you get used to something it can always have more power, faster servos, ETC. That being said, it will be some time before my flying abilities can use more than this setup has to offer.

I just need more batteries!!
zguy is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-11-2008, 07:04 PM   #20 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 8,257
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Default

with the 16T what % thr are you at?
helicraze is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply




Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the HeliFreak forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your REAL and WORKING email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Use a real email address or you will not be granted access to the site. Thank you.
Email Address:
Location
Where do you live? ie: Country, State, City or General Geographic Location please.
Name and Lastname
Enter name and last name here. (This information is not shown to the general public. Optional)
Helicopter #1
Enter Helicopter #1 type and equipment.
Helicopter #2
Enter Helicopter #2 type and equipment.
Helicopter #3
Enter Helicopter #3 type and equipment.
Helicopter #4
Enter Helicopter #4 type and equipment.

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright © Website Acquisitions Inc. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1