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130X Blade 130X Helicopters Information and Help


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Old 08-27-2013, 08:07 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Nice!! My Plush 12A is still in the mail, HK Blue Series is too underpowered for the setup

I'm thinking of moving ZYX to the front as well, but I think I'll fly it as is for now and will have some fun with it, until the winter hits. Then I'll build another 3S-powered one.

Questions:
1) How long are the flight times? I think you mentioned a 360mAh battery, I was thinking of rolling with 450mAh for a 3S setup (I get just over 5 minutes of hard 3D on my 450mAh with 2S motor and stock 3in1).
2) Do you grease the bushings/dampeners in the rotorhead? A lot of people suggest that those should be greased.

I guess with longer blades you might also need a longer tail... or maybe not. I think there's still 20mm of space left, so the main blades won't touch the tail blades under load.
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:22 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by prokyon View Post
Nice!! My Plush 12A is still in the mail, HK Blue Series is too underpowered for the setup

I'm thinking of moving ZYX to the front as well, but I think I'll fly it as is for now and will have some fun with it, until the winter hits. Then I'll build another 3S-powered one.

Questions:
1) How long are the flight times? I think you mentioned a 360mAh battery, I was thinking of rolling with 450mAh for a 3S setup (I get just over 5 minutes of hard 3D on my 450mAh with 2S motor and stock 3in1).
2) Do you grease the bushings/dampeners in the rotorhead? A lot of people suggest that those should be greased.

I guess with longer blades you might also need a longer tail... or maybe not. I think there's still 20mm of space left, so the main blades won't touch the tail blades under load.
flights are 4 minutes or just over, 3.79 to 3.8v per cell, 280 to 300 replenished. 300 packs come down at the same voltage as the 360's but I'm over drawing the capacity, so I'll fly at 330 with those. Using only 80% capacity of 360 30c pack with a solid 4 minute flight at 5200 rpms, 100% flat. A 3s 400 to 450 pack is going to be heavy,40 to 50 grams, at least most of the ones I could find are in that range. If someone finds a good one sub 40 grams I'm all ears. I think Hyperion makes a 350 or close to that, I'll check a couple of those out.

stretch kit will be all inclusive, main and tail blades, boom and torque shaft, looking forward to that. I wasn't involved in that testing at all, so some of you guys will get it before I do I'm sure. I've been advised not to run over 5000 rpm's with the stretch kit.

I haven't greased anything in the head.
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Old 08-29-2013, 04:45 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Default Yikes Heavy!!!

Porker alert!! Porker alert!!!
The bluetooth is 3.5 grams and comes off when tuning is done, and I could save another gram by shortening the rx wires, could save another gram with plastic gears in the lynx servo, or I could take off some metal like I did before. It's got a shit ton of power, just heavy disk loading, but still not as heavy as trex 250. I did some field tuning yesterday and had to drop the collective a bit as it was too much...This is with stock (but trimmed) canopy and 35.5 gram Vortek 360mah 30c 3s lipo with micro deans, 18g wire lead.

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Old 08-29-2013, 06:00 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Solid work!! I'm learning a lot from this and Fabian's threads.

Have you considered using a stock swash-plate? The metal one is heavy, could shave some weight there. I find the stock swash to be pretty decent, actually.

My Plush 12A still hasn't arrived... tempted to go to LHS and dump $45 on YGE ESC, that's how bad I want to get this thing up in the air!!
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Old 08-29-2013, 10:00 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Whoa, you sure you haven't left a finger (or two) on that scale!

or

that is one heavy 1/2 a skid.

Last edited by SkyKraken; 08-30-2013 at 12:08 AM..
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:22 AM   #66 (permalink)
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lol, no it's just heavy.

Lynx Pro Swash
DFC system
Solid carbon shaft with metal collar
T.b.s.r
Lynx tail case
Lynx tail grips
xtreme tail shaft
zyx-s
plush 12 with diode
dsmx sat rx
5 gram eox rotory servo with universal mount. (metal gears, I believe there will be a plastic gear option)
Lynx skids
Lynx main and tail blades
trimmed stock canopy
eox 1102 with 3pin micro deans (will come off eventually and get direct soldered)
bluetooth adapter.
35.5 gram Vortec 3s 360mah 30c lipo with micro deans.

You feel the heavy disk around mid stick, like a trex 250 but not as bad, I want to see how much difference there is stretched before putting it on a diet. But it flies real well, it feels kind of wierd going from zyx bird to as3x bird at the field, the zyx flies more like a big heli, you can feel the difference. I think the hh is too high on as 3x, seems like it wants to go level all the time and fights your stick commands. For example in a circuit as you drop aileron and keep it going with elevator and rudder, it seems like it takes more effort with the as3x to hold the disk at the aileron angle you want, it likes to go back to level. And of course the wild unpredictable cyclic interactions in piros, balancing cg helps, but only so much.
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:18 PM   #67 (permalink)
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BMC, my Plush 12A arrived, I connected it to ZYX and to motor - same symptoms of blinking R100 as before.

I tried unplugging servos one by one like you suggested.

Update: any 2 servos work with ZYX and R100, but more than that and I get blinking light on R100. Also, my other R100 receiver binds no problem, each time, while another R100 binds once in every blue moon.

Also, I got ZYX 4.02 to bind and work properly. Downgrade to 3.5, bind like before, then upgrade to 4.02: works!

R100 won't work with ZYX without the adapter cable. Tried running at 5V too - same symptoms, more than 2 servos and receiver blinks, servos lag in movement, but show plenty of power.

So now I don't think it's the servos or the BEC: it has to be the receiver. Going to fork over some cash for DSMX satellite by Spektrum.

Last edited by prokyon; 08-31-2013 at 09:37 AM.. Reason: update
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Old 08-31-2013, 11:44 AM   #68 (permalink)
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I guess it's possible you have a faulty rx, only time I get the lights out in the dsmx rx is when a servo is dying, and it doesn't take long to die. Mine just works, if you have a dx8 just save yourself some headache and get a spektrum dsmx sat.
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Old 08-31-2013, 12:45 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Here is a video with 2s 1101, 10t pinion, 111 mg, 100% flat, prototype Eox tail servo.


Blade 130x Tarot with ZYX-S Piro Madness (3 min 56 sec)
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Old 08-31-2013, 01:56 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Great video, but again the 3+1 does not have piro compensation so guys with 3+1 should not expect that kind of level piros. Seems that that servo works great on a full blown fbl unit but how is it on the 3+1 and stock voltage. I think I have made up my mind to just sell my custom xtreme frame bird for another rotary servo build and no 3+1. I hate the stock servos with passion lol! Actually the last 2 cyclics were decent as far as slop is concerned but replacing them often is getting real old and I have not been around to long with the 130x. For me custom rotary with full blown fbl is the only way to go. I want one of those tail servos now LOL! I hope they give us a working frequency figure. I am tired of horizon/e-flite/spectrum BS!
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Old 08-31-2013, 02:33 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Update: connected Spektrum DSM-X satellite: 3 servos work now, no problem. When I connect all 4 - same thing, blinking light.

Re-wired the tail servo: improvement! I can get all 4 servos to move for 10-20 seconds and then I get a delay.

Now try it with the motor: better! I still get the blinking light on DSM-X sat, but with engine running at 100% I see no delay in the servo movement anymore.

Now, I'm not that great at soldering yet. Do you think it's just a bad soldering job on all 4 servos that's causing this? Maybe my soldering joints increase the resistance somehow, and then BEC has to compensate with a higher current? My HK BEC at 1A cuts off right away even at 5V. Plush at 2A is what I have now. All 3 cyclic servos are brand new.
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Old 08-31-2013, 02:35 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Great video, but again the 3+1 does not have piro compensation so guys with 3+1 should not expect that kind of level piros. Seems that that servo works great on a full blown fbl unit but how is it on the 3+1 and stock voltage. I think I have made up my mind to just sell my custom xtreme frame bird for another rotary servo build and no 3+1. I hate the stock servos with passion lol! Actually the last 2 cyclics were decent as far as slop is concerned but replacing them often is getting real old and I have not been around to long with the 130x. For me custom rotary with full blown fbl is the only way to go. I want one of those tail servos now LOL! I hope they give us a working frequency figure. I am tired of horizon/e-flite/spectrum BS!
It works very well with 3in1 board, very strong authority, good speed, holds through all tail first moves. All the servos work better fbl controller. Remember this is yesterdays prototype and the next should be either the one (cross fingers) or very very close. I generally get a couple of hundred flights from the linear tail servo, maybe you should just finish your bx bird with that, it really works well on a full fbl unit, I think it'll keep you happy enough until this one is released.
Pretty soon you'll be able to stretch it, 3s it, and have a good rotory servo to go with all the other goodies you put on there.
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Old 08-31-2013, 02:42 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by prokyon View Post
Update: connected Spektrum DSM-X satellite: 3 servos work now, no problem. When I connect all 4 - same thing, blinking light.

Re-wired the tail servo: improvement! I can get all 4 servos to move for 10-20 seconds and then I get a delay.

Now try it with the motor: better! I still get the blinking light on DSM-X sat, but with engine running at 100% I see no delay in the servo movement anymore.

Now, I'm not that great at soldering yet. Do you think it's just a bad soldering job on all 4 servos that's causing this? Maybe my soldering joints increase the resistance somehow, and then BEC has to compensate with a higher current? My HK BEC at 1A cuts off right away even at 5V. Plush at 2A is what I have now. All 3 cyclic servos are brand new.
can you snap some pics of all your wiring? something is not right, it should work. I can stir the sticks for a whole pack and not lose the rx.
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Old 08-31-2013, 03:32 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Apologies if it's not the best quality. I pulled one servo off, you can also see the faulty R100 on the frame, disconnected.

One servo has a standard servo wire (not the ultralight), because my LHS ran out of those thin wires. I disconnected it, and tried moving everything with and without the motor - no problems. Maybe the thick wire is causing problems?

Anyway, I ordered ultralight wires in the mail along with a new frame. Gonna do it right the first time: measure correct wire length, connect everything, make sure everything works, then put ZYX in the front of the frame and viola (so... kinda feel like I'm copying parts of your setup... ok, fine "replicating" is a better word )
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Old 08-31-2013, 03:52 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by prokyon View Post
Apologies if it's not the best quality. I pulled one servo off, you can also see the faulty R100 on the frame, disconnected.

One servo has a standard servo wire (not the ultralight), because my LHS ran out of those thin wires. I disconnected it, and tried moving everything with and without the motor - no problems. Maybe the thick wire is causing problems?

Anyway, I ordered ultralight wires in the mail along with a new frame. Gonna do it right the first time: measure correct wire length, connect everything, make sure everything works, then put ZYX in the front of the frame and viola (so... kinda feel like I'm copying parts of your setup... ok, fine "replicating" is a better word )
Double check every joint, you need to clean up the bec lead for sure. I can shoot a quick video showing how th solder these things correctcly if it will help you, but may only be so useful if you don't have a good temp controlled iron. Doing a project like this will make you good at soldering for sure.
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:13 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Alright, I whipped out my multimeter and checked the current and voltage. Plush outputs a whopping 4A of BEC burst current!! That's insane! The value drops to 2A within 3 seconds, as advertized, and then keeps going lower. So if there's something sucking power, then for sure BEC won't keep up. I measured this current at the ZYX with all servos connected - stil 4A. So I don't see current loss when the thing is static.

Now the voltage at BEC is exactly 5V, drops to 4.65 with the diode at the BEC connector before going to ZYX, and at ZYX terminals I measured 4.25V. Now, it makes me wonder - if the voltage is too high coming from ZYX, maybe the servos heat up, internal resistance goes up and now BEC needs more current to keep up. Possible? I'll check tomorrow by adding another diode or 2.

Regarding soldering, I could not remove the factory solder with both the suction tool and the braid. Also, I'm not sure how to solder the motor wires to Plush: solder goes over the FET connectors on the Plush, not the case for HK where the wire points are clearly marked.

I also read a soldering tutorial and got myself some larger iron tips today for better heat transfer, my iron has temperature control, but I may now be an expert on how to use it (I just dialed it to whatever temp melts the solder quickly, about 500C). I'm using 63% solder.

A video would indeed be very helpful! If adding another diode to drop internal resistance due to temperature increase won't help, then let's just say that I'm bad at soldering and every single one of my joints creates lots of resistance
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:24 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by prokyon View Post
Alright, I whipped out my multimeter and checked the current and voltage. Plush outputs a whopping 4A of BEC burst current!! That's insane! The value drops to 2A within 3 seconds, as advertized, and then keeps going lower. So if there's something sucking power, then for sure BEC won't keep up. I measured this current at the ZYX with all servos connected - stil 4A. So I don't see current loss when the thing is static.

Now the voltage at BEC is exactly 5V, drops to 4.65 with the diode at the BEC connector before going to ZYX, and at ZYX terminals I measured 4.25V. Now, it makes me wonder - if the voltage is too high coming from ZYX, maybe the servos heat up, internal resistance goes up and now BEC needs more current to keep up. Possible? I'll check tomorrow by adding another diode or 2.

Regarding soldering, I could not remove the factory solder with both the suction tool and the braid. Also, I'm not sure how to solder the motor wires to Plush: solder goes over the FET connectors on the Plush, not the case for HK where the wire points are clearly marked.

I also read a soldering tutorial and got myself some larger iron tips today for better heat transfer, my iron has temperature control, but I may now be an expert on how to use it (I just dialed it to whatever temp melts the solder quickly, about 500C). I'm using 63% solder.

A video would indeed be very helpful! If adding another diode to drop internal resistance due to temperature increase won't help, then let's just say that I'm bad at soldering and every single one of my joints creates lots of resistance
Just shot a 12 minute vid, damn I'm long winded my friend will upload in a few. On plush all fet legs on the inside are covered.
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Old 08-31-2013, 09:40 PM   #78 (permalink)
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here you go, my plan was a quick 5 minute video, guess I just talk too much.

Basic Soldering Tips for ZYX-S Build (12 min 7 sec)
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Old 08-31-2013, 10:02 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Wow, thanks a lot!! Very helpful! I wasn't expecting you to do a vid so quickly.

I'm pretty much doing all the things you mentioned, just not nearly as well. I didn't clean up the old solder, my tip was too small and I didn't use flux when soldering the wires. A few of my joints kinda have the wire "holding", but I'm not sure how good the conductance is. I also didn't trim the wires after tinning them.

Alright, looks like this is all the info I need. I'll pull apart my 130x, solder everything properly and will also try throwing another diode on BEC to bring the voltage down some more. I'll keep you posted. Really appreciate all the help!

When removing old solder, do you dip the de-soldering braid in flux as well? Do you ever use the suction tool?
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:53 AM   #80 (permalink)
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Wow, thanks a lot!! Very helpful! I wasn't expecting you to do a vid so quickly.

I'm pretty much doing all the things you mentioned, just not nearly as well. I didn't clean up the old solder, my tip was too small and I didn't use flux when soldering the wires. A few of my joints kinda have the wire "holding", but I'm not sure how good the conductance is. I also didn't trim the wires after tinning them.

Alright, looks like this is all the info I need. I'll pull apart my 130x, solder everything properly and will also try throwing another diode on BEC to bring the voltage down some more. I'll keep you posted. Really appreciate all the help!

When removing old solder, do you dip the de-soldering braid in flux as well? Do you ever use the suction tool?
You don't need another diode, just clean up your wires and try again. Another thing I just thought of is I remember getting a bad connection once before, I believe I had broken a joint on the zyx plug bank by over handling when I kept peeling the mount with dbl sided tape off all the time try different mounting. I just touched up the joints on the zyx plug bank and the problem was solved.

I do dip the braid in flux, then wipe off excess on side of container, you need solder on the tip of the iron for it to work. I use the sucker an bigger blobs of solder like when I removed and replaced motor wires so much. You can see on the plush in the video that it's about time to remove some of the solder from the motor wire pads, I'd use a sucker for that.
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