Ultimate Head Speed Calculator - HeliFreak
Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > Mikado Logo Helicopters


Mikado Logo Helicopters Mikado Logo Helicopters Discussion


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-03-2007, 01:57 AM   #1 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,937
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Santa Barbara
Default Ultimate Head Speed Calculator

I'm not ready to announce this application in the main forum section yet but thought I'd share this with everybody in the Mikado section to start with since most of my time is spent here.

This is the ultimate Windows based head speed calculator and has a few features I think are better than the javascript ones being run on other sites. It is even custom branded with a hot link button to launch Helifreak.com. It was written over the weekend so its not completely done and I have more features planned. The idea came about when I was researching motors, desired head speed, pinion choices, cell count, etc. etc.

The application is fairly self explanatory so try it and see if you like it. There is more to come and I'm even thinking of making a Mac version to please the minority but that will be later unless I get a push for it.

Features:
1. Common motor type list (more to come) to auto load KV rating
2. Common gear type list (more to come) to load main gear teeth
3. Pinion and efficiency slider along with manual entry
4. Battery cell selection
5. Battery quality settings (min, normal, max loading voltage levels but its not entirely accurate)
6. Dynamic gear ratio
7. State save between sessions.
8. Head speed reading a different load settings (based on battery quality and type)

Next:
more stuff...:wink:

The main thing I like about this calculator is that you don't need to use two different types of entry fields to find desired head speed or desired pinion size since the slider makes it dynamic and easy to see. Also, the other sites use calculators that use a fixed voltage per cell (3.7V) for calculating head speed and don't take into account load or battery quality.


HSCalc.zip (153KB) - http://brucewsb.s3.amazonaws.com/Files/HSCalc.zip



Enjoy and let me know what you think,
Bruce


Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	HSCalc.jpg
Views:	10466
Size:	58.1 KB
ID:	32086  
__________________
Logo 500 3D /Scorpion HK4020-1100KV (16T)/Jazz80/BLS451/Spartan DS760/BLS251/RT 560mm/AR9000
TRex 450SE
/Scorpion HK-2221-8 (13T)/ AlignESC35(X)/ HS65MG/Spartan DS760/S9650/AR6100
Spektrum DX7



BruceW is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-03-2007, 02:12 AM   #2 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: QLD Australia
Default

Great calc! Would love to see more motors listed as i know its on your to do list.
Tango's
Actro's
Neu's
would be great
cheers
__________________
800 XXtreme, 700 Xxtreme, pimped to the max
2 x Logo 600 V-Bar, Pyro, Jive HV 90, 9451's, 9256
480 Xxtreme, Pimped, HVBK Serves, Best 500 out there!
Just gotta love that smell of electric flight :!: Align - NEVER
Klinger is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2007, 02:15 AM   #3 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,937
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Santa Barbara
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klinger View Post
Great calc! Would love to see more motors listed as i know its on your to do list.
Tango's
Actro's
Neu's
would be great
cheers
I'm thinking of making an online database where others can help fill in the info and then I just import it as an XML file.
__________________
Logo 500 3D /Scorpion HK4020-1100KV (16T)/Jazz80/BLS451/Spartan DS760/BLS251/RT 560mm/AR9000
TRex 450SE
/Scorpion HK-2221-8 (13T)/ AlignESC35(X)/ HS65MG/Spartan DS760/S9650/AR6100
Spektrum DX7



BruceW is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2007, 03:11 AM   #4 (permalink)
HF Support
 
Posts: 13,985
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Qld, AUSTRALIA
Default

Great work man - good idea about the db too !
__________________
John
Mercuriell is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2007, 06:37 AM   #5 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC
Default

Great calculator guys! Already on my desk-top.
Eyefly is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2007, 06:47 AM   #6 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 13
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Linköping, Sweden
Default

OK, I beg forgivness directly but I'm a programmer by profession and have a habit of testing UI, so don't take this the wrong way... It is a great program! (I just found some inconsistencies :-)
The tab order is weird, is it by design or accident?
If I enter a number for Pinion size, the slider don't update to that value. But I really like the slider idea!
We'll have to help with some ideas for motors, I agree...

Last edited by AndreasM; 12-03-2007 at 06:50 AM.. Reason: More comments
AndreasM is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2007, 07:07 AM   #7 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,937
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Santa Barbara
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreasM View Post
OK, I beg forgivness directly but I'm a programmer by profession and have a habit of testing UI, so don't take this the wrong way... It is a great program! (I just found some inconsistencies :-)
The tab order is weird, is it by design or accident?
If I enter a number for Pinion size, the slider don't update to that value. But I really like the slider idea!
We'll have to help with some ideas for motors, I agree...
No worries, thats why I asked for feedback...and thanks for finding those. I just fixed the tab order, and the update of the pinion and efficiency slider position. The tab order was wrong because I had moved some controls and forgot to reorder them.

There is a new version up now - 1.0.2 (lets call it beta until it runs perfect:wink.

Bruce
__________________
Logo 500 3D /Scorpion HK4020-1100KV (16T)/Jazz80/BLS451/Spartan DS760/BLS251/RT 560mm/AR9000
TRex 450SE
/Scorpion HK-2221-8 (13T)/ AlignESC35(X)/ HS65MG/Spartan DS760/S9650/AR6100
Spektrum DX7



BruceW is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2007, 08:24 AM   #8 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 56
 

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Detroit
Default

Very Nice!
Foamy Love is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2007, 08:36 AM   #9 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Default

What are the definitions of the three load levels? Is the efficiency calculated from the motor parameters and operating point or a user defined input? If operating point, which load level?

A very useful addition would be estimated current values for each load level.

Thanks,
John
JKos is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2007, 12:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,937
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Santa Barbara
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKos View Post
What are the definitions of the three load levels? Is the efficiency calculated from the motor parameters and operating point or a user defined input? If operating point, which load level?

A very useful addition would be estimated current values for each load level.

Thanks,
John
The idea behind the load levels is that when the helicopter is spun up with no load (i.e. on the ground with 0 pitch), easy flying - medium load, and hard 3D - high load, the voltage per cell will drop to a certain level from the full charged state and that will determine the head speed. Of course, when you ease up on the load the voltage will rise again. The normal head speed calculators usually take 3.7V per cell as a fixed factor in the calculation and this isn't really accurate for determining head speed. A higher C rated batter is going to have less voltage drop than a lower C battery and hence, head speed will be higher.

Efficiency is more of a general fudge factor that takes into account energy loss in the gearing, motor efficiencies, blades, etc. Mostly people plug in around 90% but some motors have a rating of 85%. As an example, the Scorpion HK-2221-8 on my Trex has a higher tached head speed than the calculation stats using 90% so I have to dial up the efficiency rating to 97% to match real world numbers. That's another factor I'd like to acquire from users to plug into the database.

The current (Amps) load is going to be based on the motor type, blades, motor efficiency, cells, helicopter weight, etc. so its hard to guesstimate. But I am planning on loading more motor data to get better stats such as optimal motor speed, watt rating, etc. so stay tuned. To do this, I will probably need to build an online entry form and ask for help from the Freaks to fill in the data.

Bruce
__________________
Logo 500 3D /Scorpion HK4020-1100KV (16T)/Jazz80/BLS451/Spartan DS760/BLS251/RT 560mm/AR9000
TRex 450SE
/Scorpion HK-2221-8 (13T)/ AlignESC35(X)/ HS65MG/Spartan DS760/S9650/AR6100
Spektrum DX7



BruceW is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2007, 01:41 PM   #11 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Default

Bruce,
I'm not sure basing load level on cell voltage is all that usefull as it makes some setup assumptions that simply may not be true. It assumes the user is choosing a battery setup which will actually be loaded that heavily.

I guess if your tool is meant for simple, back of the envelope type setup guesstimates, then perhaps it is just fine. I just think you could add a few more things that would take a it up a level or two but stay easy to use. Somewhere between what you have thus far and the famous K.C. spreadsheet would be nice.

> The current (Amps) load is going to be based on the motor type, blades, motor efficiency, cells, helicopter weight, etc.
> so its hard to guesstimate.

So don't guesstimate, calculate it.

Thanks,
John
JKos is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2007, 01:54 PM   #12 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,556
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Norway
Default

Great!

I would like to see Z-Power 1150kv on the calculator.
__________________
Mathias
Lynx Oxy 3 | JR XG14
Mathias is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2007, 02:12 PM   #13 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 623
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Default

What did you use to write this? If it's .NET I'll give it a shot under Mono on Mac and Linux.
__________________
http://sociable.co.nz/ | http://axe.io/
Logo 500 µBeast
jamesotron99 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2007, 02:18 PM   #14 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,937
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Santa Barbara
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKos View Post
So don't guesstimate, calculate it.
This is only version 1 (written over the weekend) so there is room to add more calculations and data. I'll look into adding other variables that can be used for more stats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesotron99 View Post
What did you use to write this? If it's .NET I'll give it a shot under Mono on Mac and Linux.
I used MFC (C++) but will probably re-write it in wxWidgets which is portable across multiple platforms.
__________________
Logo 500 3D /Scorpion HK4020-1100KV (16T)/Jazz80/BLS451/Spartan DS760/BLS251/RT 560mm/AR9000
TRex 450SE
/Scorpion HK-2221-8 (13T)/ AlignESC35(X)/ HS65MG/Spartan DS760/S9650/AR6100
Spektrum DX7



BruceW is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2007, 05:11 PM   #15 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,411
 

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Colorado
Default

One other thing to consider is something like "optimal governor" setting. That is, optimally, I should try to keep my governor at, say, 85%, so what I'm after is what the resulting headspeed would be at 85% of the calculated value.

Functionally, you'd just need another slider with values 1-100%, and a default of 85.

As far as "load" or voltage, on 6S, I see mine do a nice steady decline under load from ~23 to ~21, but it holds across that range well, passing the midpoint almost exactly half-way through the flight. My point being the 3.7V/cell base calculation is a good average to consider anyway, IMHO.

John
__________________
Logo 600 3D V-Bar, Jazz 55-10-32, Tango 45-7, 0.7/13T, BLS451/BLS251, JR R921, Maniac623
Logo 500 3D V-Bar, Jive 100+LV, Scorpion HK-4020-1100, 0.7/15T, S9452/S9256, AR7000, RT560
T-Rex 600 CF, Jazz 80-6-18, Neu 1515/2.5D/F/H, 11T, S9451, ds760/S9254, AR7000, Radix600
T-Rex 500 CF, stock ESC/motor/rotors, 13T, HS-5245MG, ds760/S9254, JR R921
th3tick is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2007, 05:18 PM   #16 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,411
 

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Colorado
Default

One other thought: while you're storing motors, also include max RPM, and you can back-calculate whether the setup you have will exceed it.

John
__________________
Logo 600 3D V-Bar, Jazz 55-10-32, Tango 45-7, 0.7/13T, BLS451/BLS251, JR R921, Maniac623
Logo 500 3D V-Bar, Jive 100+LV, Scorpion HK-4020-1100, 0.7/15T, S9452/S9256, AR7000, RT560
T-Rex 600 CF, Jazz 80-6-18, Neu 1515/2.5D/F/H, 11T, S9451, ds760/S9254, AR7000, Radix600
T-Rex 500 CF, stock ESC/motor/rotors, 13T, HS-5245MG, ds760/S9254, JR R921
th3tick is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2007, 05:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,937
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Santa Barbara
Default

I saw the voltage drop theory based on different loads from MrMel's head speed calculator page and figured that was something others were using but maybe its not. Based on JKos's hint about the KC spreadsheet, I'll look into adding a more advanced info page with more parameters that can be entered to better predict head speed. This will probably require gathering more information about motors, blades, weight, etc.

So, does everybody want me to take out the different voltage loading RPM stats and keep that page simple using 3.7V/cell? The plan is to now add an advanced tab with more tweakable parameters. There will also be a page with just motor stats.

Thanks for the input.
__________________
Logo 500 3D /Scorpion HK4020-1100KV (16T)/Jazz80/BLS451/Spartan DS760/BLS251/RT 560mm/AR9000
TRex 450SE
/Scorpion HK-2221-8 (13T)/ AlignESC35(X)/ HS65MG/Spartan DS760/S9650/AR6100
Spektrum DX7



BruceW is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2007, 05:25 PM   #18 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,937
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Santa Barbara
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by th3tick View Post
One other thought: while you're storing motors, also include max RPM, and you can back-calculate whether the setup you have will exceed it.

John
I was planning on adding that also :wink: ... along with motor RPM and percentage of max.
__________________
Logo 500 3D /Scorpion HK4020-1100KV (16T)/Jazz80/BLS451/Spartan DS760/BLS251/RT 560mm/AR9000
TRex 450SE
/Scorpion HK-2221-8 (13T)/ AlignESC35(X)/ HS65MG/Spartan DS760/S9650/AR6100
Spektrum DX7



BruceW is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2007, 05:37 PM   #19 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,411
 

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Colorado
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceW View Post
There will also be a page with just motor stats.
Please be sure to include the pole count. I need that for my brushless headspeed sensor with the E-Logger, and it sure is a pain to find sometimes!

Making a full sheet of motors in and of itself is a worthy reference!

And thank you for taking this (what will turn into) monster on!

Would it be worthwhile for this to be online instead of a downloadable package? That way I could, in theory, run it on my Solaris box too

John
__________________
Logo 600 3D V-Bar, Jazz 55-10-32, Tango 45-7, 0.7/13T, BLS451/BLS251, JR R921, Maniac623
Logo 500 3D V-Bar, Jive 100+LV, Scorpion HK-4020-1100, 0.7/15T, S9452/S9256, AR7000, RT560
T-Rex 600 CF, Jazz 80-6-18, Neu 1515/2.5D/F/H, 11T, S9451, ds760/S9254, AR7000, Radix600
T-Rex 500 CF, stock ESC/motor/rotors, 13T, HS-5245MG, ds760/S9254, JR R921
th3tick is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2007, 06:02 PM   #20 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 74
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Default

That's good stuff man! Thanks,

Paul
__________________
Trex 600N
Mikado 500 3D, Trex 500
BEAM E4, Mini Titan 325
Trex 250 Super Combo
pcliftonjr is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply




Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the HeliFreak forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your REAL and WORKING email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Use a real email address or you will not be granted access to the site. Thank you.
Email Address:
Location
Where do you live? ie: Country, State, City or General Geographic Location please.
Name and Lastname
Enter name and last name here. (This information is not shown to the general public. Optional)
Helicopter #1
Enter Helicopter #1 type and equipment.
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)
Helicopter #2
Enter Helicopter #2 type and equipment.
Helicopter #3
Enter Helicopter #3 type and equipment.
Helicopter #4
Enter Helicopter #4 type and equipment.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.
 

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1