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Old 05-17-2013, 12:58 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Ok, here goes. With pictures!

Ok guys, I've always wanted to try some instructional videos. However, my computer graphics card can't handle Realflight and a screen capture at the same time, above about 10fps.
So in lew, I wanted to try pictures. Lemme know what you think. Allows me to break down stuff in a still frame, which can help.

First off, I want to try to explain "flying the disc." It can be hard to grasp, until fully explained, and practiced. This is how I fly the heli, and I think this may be a real good explanation.

First, we need to establish a paradigm.
A way of thinking, basically. Alot of RC pilots fly the body, like they are in it.
While this may help at the absolute beginning, it will only hold you back from further progression in skill. You need to fly it from outside the machine because ... you are.

So, step 1 in "Maximum Heli Control." lol. Catchy, I guess.
The best way to have full control of a heli, and to perform any 3d move you can think of, is to fly the disc, not the body. Thinking along the control axes (aileron and elevator) is essential, however, not the end-all-be-all of controlling the machine. The body should only serve as a reference for input.
This IS HOW I look at the heli while it's flying. It's the way I would imagine every skilled pilot does, however I'm putting it into words.

#1..Look at the disc like a compass.

When you think of the machine like this, there becomes only two different control inputs. You choose a direction, and either "push" or "pull." For example, a forward flip would be "pushing" forward elevator. A rearward flip would be "pushing" rear elevator. In order to pull a circuit or hurricane, let's say "nose first," you have to "pull" back elevator. They are both one in the same because it's one control move, however it can be easier to think of it that way.Watch.

So, everybody knows, to do a nose first hurricane, you need to "pull" back elevator. In order to do an inverted nose first hurricane, you need to "push" forward elevator. It's not an absolute, but it kinda makes sense in my head. lol.
The subtle difference is.. you "pull" through a circuit, and you "push" over through a flip
Get the subtle difference? Ok, good.
With that premise, you can watch the disc, pick a compass direction to watch, and "push" or "pull" the disc with that given input.

For instance, your classic circuit, or hurricane.

Look at ONLY the disc and the compass for now. Completely remove the body from your thought process.
If it may help, here's a visual. Think of it as a flying dinner plate. With a compass. In mid air.


So, in order to make the plate perform a circuit, how do the controls work? North/south would be your elevation, and east/west would be the direction, or the direction and width of the circuit. To complete a counter-clockwise (CCW) circuit, you would need to "pull" the east direction. On the other hand, in order to maintain a clockwise (CW) circuit, you need to pull the western side of the disc.
Make sense? That's the difference between flying the body and flying the disc.

SO.. going further. Look at the disc and add the body back in.

In a nose first hurricane, you need to pull the eastern side of the disc. Which part of the machine is on the eastern side of the disc? The tail! That's right! So that means you need to pull... back elevator.

Rotate the nose 90 degrees.

The infamous nose down funnel.

However, look at the compass. Remember, in order to pull the disc through the circuit, you need to pull the eastern side input. While holding a CCW circuit, which part of the heli is on the eastern side? Look at the body for reference. Left aileron. So, that is your input to perform the circuit. North/south would be your altitude, so again, look at the body for reference. The tail is north, and the nose is south. So, back elevator goes up, forward ele goes down. North/south, that's honestly how I see it.
Apply this principle to each different body orientation, and you will unlock the ability to know how to move the heli in any direction.


I wanna cut it there for now. Let's keep it simple. Only upright for now, and only thinking about the "top" of the disc. I will also mostly be explaining left rudder, because it's the most common. Later, we can work on right rudder.
So it's gonna end here for now. The post is long enough, plus that's enough for a first write up.
Let me know what you guys think, if it makes sense, and if you think I should make some more. Do more? .. Never post again? Shorten? Lemme know what you think
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:19 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default "pulling" and "pushing"

gitbse, Good info. This is also the way I think of a heli. (partially thanks to you and your previous posts).

The thing that helps me think of the "pull" and "push" you mentioned is to imaging a large pole sticking out of the center of the rotor disk (extension of mast). Think of what do you need to do to that pole to make the heli go where you want it.

Therefore when you "pull" the extended mast East, the West side of the disc moves towards you (and the East side of the disc moves away from you).

One of the advantages of mode 2 is that all of your cyclic controls are on the one stick and match up with the "pull/push" idea.


All in favour of more posts from you. Keep it up. (Considering the response to my last question "Am I on the right track?" thread, I will soon be posting a summarised list of how I got from only tail-in hover to all 8's and funnels in 6 months. Lots of help from HF ).
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Old 05-17-2013, 06:52 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Ok, I knew you would be into it
Maybe I'll glance through the basics and get into some 3d.
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:03 AM   #4 (permalink)
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So, step 1 in "Maximum Heli Control." lol. Catchy, I guess.
The best way to have full control of a heli, and to perform any 3d move you can think of, is to fly the disc, not the body.
Ah. That's one of the first problems. You (and Archmage) might not realise to appropriate extend that flying the disc is not always possible . Here, for instance, around 50% of time we have white clouds and no sun. It gives quite a bit silhouette perception of helicopter and no disc at sight. No matter to colour of blades - they just can't be seen over white clouds as throwing a back light at it. Black clouds, on the other hand give at least some perception of the disc.

For disc to be seen - you mostly need sun. And orientation of the helicopter sun shines to disc more or less direction (up to 40-50š). Yesterday I had some sun coming from time to time on it - but orientation was 90š to it (and white clouds) so I couldn't see it anyway

Other way disc is seen is to fly low and blow background trees. Quite hard and dangerous for novices like myself.

So we are stuck in flying it any way we can in absence of the disc visible. That's why have of my air time is much worse than other half when I can see it properly!

One other thing to mention about your post: you refer to steep, quick circuts as hurricanes and I am worried that can be a bit scary for beginners. Even shallow, slow circuits do exhibit most of the properties you described.

And the last, and really important comment to put here for yours and others scrutiny: all you explained is fine, but you didn't mention what to practice to be able to observe (and work using muscle memory) disc in the way you explained it! What to do to be able to fly the disc in any orientation?

And the answer is: practice slow pirouettes! They will teach you to steer disc no matter of where the tail is properly through any of moves you described. Giving right input in relation to the heli's disc (and the tail) is what we are here trying to achieve and one (very first, basic and very effective) practice is to learn slow pirouettes (both sides). Do you agree?
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:22 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clicky View Post
Ah. That's one of the first problems. You (and Archmage) might not realise to appropriate extend that flying the disc is not always possible . Here, for instance, around 50% of time we have white clouds and no sun. It gives quite a bit silhouette perception of helicopter and no disc at sight. No matter to colour of blades - they just can't be seen over white clouds as throwing a back light at it. Black clouds, on the other hand give at least some perception of the disc.

For disc to be seen - you mostly need sun. And orientation of the helicopter sun shines to disc more or less direction (up to 40-50š). Yesterday I had some sun coming from time to time on it - but orientation was 90š to it (and white clouds) so I couldn't see it anyway

Other way disc is seen is to fly low and blow background trees. Quite hard and dangerous for novices like myself.

So we are stuck in flying it any way we can in absence of the disc visible. That's why have of my air time is much worse than other half when I can see it properly!

One other thing to mention about your post: you refer to steep, quick circuts as hurricanes and I am worried that can be a bit scary for beginners. Even shallow, slow circuits do exhibit most of the properties you described.

And the last, and really important comment to put here for yours and others scrutiny: all you explained is fine, but you didn't mention what to practice to be able to observe (and work using muscle memory) disc in the way you explained it! What to do to be able to fly the disc in any orientation?

And the answer is: practice slow pirouettes! They will teach you to steer disc no matter of where the tail is properly through any of moves you described. Giving right input in relation to the heli's disc (and the tail) is what we are here trying to achieve and one (very first, basic and very effective) practice is to learn slow pirouettes (both sides). Do you agree?
White blades can be seen pretty easily most of the time. Black blades are where it goes invisible.
And yes, I plan on getting into that. Like I ended with, I'm cutting it short and simple for the first one. And on the slow piros, I've always been one of the biggest proponents of that, period.
More's coming, don't worry.
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Old 05-17-2013, 08:29 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Good compilation gitbse !

I think the People start getting the idea when they fly pirostuff.
Before they orientate on the body.
On pirostuff you do not have the time for that so i look for the DISK and TAIL to get the orientation.
At beginning you mostly correct only once or maximum at two points in a pirociruit. When you fly the disc you can smoothly control it in any point between.
I steer the cyclic allways a very very little synchron with the tail (to compensate for the tailrotor-drag and the flybar) in any pirocircuit, flip,loop e.g.
That way your brain allways has the idea where the disk is.

Then you can concentrate on getting the disk to the orientation you want it to go.

Flipping the disc backward normal to inverted while flying "forward" is spiralling cyclic coordinated out in the direction of rudder, e.g. ccw on right, cw on left starting IN THE DIRECTION the heli points at the beginning.
Frontflipping the disk is mirrored cyclic.

So to move the disc in any of the figures in space you just get your Synchronisation Point (where is my tail) and the vector (where do i want to go).
Then you can steer in a partial piroflip to go to the direction (or wait for the tail to be at the sync orientation before starting).

The first training for "flying the disk" is - from my humble point of view to fly flat piro circuits and figure 8s without pirodirection change at the crossing point of the 8.
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Old 05-17-2013, 08:39 AM   #7 (permalink)
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@clicky

I fly RAZER PRO 710 which are a 710mm black carbon blade in conjunction with a black carbon tale and black tailblades.

I have a yellow/red canopy on one machine but also a black carbon one.
It is a "black razor" HENSELEIT machine then.
Everything is carbon black on it. Only the tailgear and rotorhead and the skids are silver from the aluminium.

I have White 800mm blades on the big machine, White canopy and White tailblades.
On cloudy skys the white is not very visible also.


You do not have to see the disc actually to fly the disk.
From a certain point you lead the heli through the figure not the other way arround.
So you have a picture of your figure and path in the head.
You see the deviation of the position it should be at so you correct that because the picture in your head where it should be and how it moves does not match the reality.

To Keep it easy and simple

When you fly a normal circuit and the heli gets too fast you take out a little of banking (sticks in opposite direction) and drag a little cyclic and put out a Little pitch. You only Need to see the helis Speed and not the disk for that.

On a pirocircuit flying the disc it is not different. If the heli is too fast you bank the disk a Little away from the midpoint you are flying arround and a Little against the flying direction and you also take out a Little of pitch.

THE ONLY THING YOU NEED TO SEE is PATH AND TAIL.

If the heli is dropping you ALLWAYS have to steer in a flip against the dropping direction if you do not know on pitch at zero pitch(as long as you do not confuse skids up/down but you can easily see that if you move the tail).

If you want to learn that get a mini-cp that one is extremly fast (on brushless) and a 100 size with a black canopy and black blades and black tailblades.
Nice training is also flying that on on grey days..

If you look at the proīs flying you will notice that they have everything planned out before a flight.
They might Change some things but mostly it it a rhythm which is orchestrated complete in the brain before the flight Begins.
If you look at a loot of beginners crashes in YouTube you will see that they fly "wild arround" without plan and react "hey - where is my heli, lets try that...,, without caring for geometry, path and orientation".
Then suddenly there is a obstacle like a jumping tree or a snapping grass.....
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Old 05-17-2013, 08:53 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I am flying P500 (stretched) and Mini Titan (stretched as well). Both with black/white blades and it doesn't help. We have days where florescent orange on both canopies are barely visible are different colour to black. . If I am to try something new and/or scary I would like to take it slightly higher (20-30m at least) and already there it is, at least for me, kind of, hard to detect where disc is - and orientations with nose at 7 & 9 o'clock are hard to be distinguished.

I am not saying that flying disc is not the way forward (I like doing it - and on days with sun I fly far, far better because of it) but it was just my rant (I am just being jealous) about not being able to do it in comparison to people in, for instance, Australia or Florida where they have far more bright sunny days than we here! Friend of mine from another part of the world doesn't even go out to fly if it is overcast

BTW I am quite capable of upright and inverted piro circuits with my nano/mCP-X/130X - no matter of weather (take the fear factor away). With bigger helis I really need sun in my blades (read rotor disc) to relax and do the same

- - -

Speaking of piro circuits - upright CW circuit with CW pirouettes and CCW circuit with CCW pirouettes (and equivalent in inverted) are quite easy. My first attempts on CCW circuit with CW pirouettes always ended up in piro squares!
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Old 05-17-2013, 02:15 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clicky View Post
.... flying the disc is not always possible .... white clouds and no sun. It gives quite a bit silhouette perception of helicopter and no disc at sight. No matter to colour of blades - they just can't be seen over white clouds as throwing a back light at it. Black clouds, on the other hand give at least some perception of the disc.
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by gitbse View Post
White blades can be seen pretty easily most of the time. Black blades are where it goes invisible....
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRabit View Post
....
THE ONLY THING YOU NEED TO SEE is PATH AND TAIL.
...
If you look at a loot of beginners crashes in YouTube you will see that they fly "wild arround" without plan and react "hey - where is my heli, lets try that...,, without caring for geometry, path and orientation".
Then suddenly there is a obstacle like a jumping tree or a snapping grass.....
Cut to the core of what I believe I have ability to reply to. Of all the pilots posting to this thread so far, I am by far the LEAST experienced. So far, it seems to be a "who's who" of my most respected pilots on the flight school forum.

I have found that even when flying neon-orange blades at a distance against a white cloud background, they can still become almost invisible. Even though I cannot see the blades (or the disc they form), I am still flying the disc. Like RogerRabit said, I know path and tail, so my mind "fills in" the disc.

Consider the optical illusion from: http://thechive.com/2012/09/20/optic...llusions-21-3/



Any of us could accurately place eyes and nose in the picture of the girl (or mentally shift to see the outline of the pipe smoker). Given 0.5s of moving heli video, with disc removed, we could place the disc, just based on path and tail.

Where I still get into trouble when hovering at a distance and tail is side-on, then I lose the tail angle. Clicky's trick of blade wobble sometimes helps, but if the blades are invisible, I can still be lost. If blade wobble fails, the trick I use then is to pull up to a 45 degree tilt angle and piro the tail 90 degrees, then level off again (elevator, rudder, aileron). I repeat this till path and tail can be re-established so I can mentally "fill in the disc" so I can then "fly the disc".

Ideally you need to stay ahead of the heli. Know where it's going. Once you have this, sending it on your desired path is "much" easier.

So when gitbse talks about flying the disc, he is talking anticipating it. The disc is a mental guide as to how to think "controls". These controls must be done ahead of the actual disc is (whether seen or not).

As RogerRabits crash YouTube example illustrates: novices are often not ahead of the heli, get surprised when it goes where they do not plan, and fail to react in time. ("Holy jumping trees, Batman!" )

"When you are in control, you don't need reflexes". I can't remember who's signature it is, but from my experience it's true.

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More's coming, don't worry.
Keep em' coming.
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Old 05-17-2013, 09:36 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I do so much piro'ing that most of what will be discussed here will tie into that. I feel that if you can control a piro, you can control the heli no matter what. I will focus on basics though, and then get some advanced stuff. I kinda like the pictures.
I'm gonna start working on more stuff this weekend.

p.s. .. I've always felt like there has been a hole to fill since there's no more raza. Just doing my best to fill it.
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Old 05-17-2013, 10:01 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ok, here goes. With pictures!

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Old 05-17-2013, 10:58 PM   #12 (permalink)
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A a noob im interested in what all of you have to offer but im sort of curious on all this "fly the disc" stuff, in a piro the tail is constantly moving so the turn angle etc directions constantly change. Soyou can't just watch the angle of the disc like you can say for flying a circuit or figure 8. I understand how you would "fly the disc" in that aspect but do not really understand how you can in a piro of any type.

Are you watching the disc but making your reactions based off of the heli body position, tail in, nose in, side in, etc. as the piro is going around?

Just starting to work on them a bit more but i can do them ok in a hover going slow and fairly fast but once i give just a little to much in any direction to bring it back to me it starts to gain to much speed.
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Old 05-17-2013, 11:55 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ArchmageAU View Post
Of all the pilots posting to this thread so far, I am by far the LEAST experienced. So far, it seems to be a "who's who" of my most respected pilots on the flight school forum.


Do not overestimate me. Do not underestimate yourself. You are younger and your helis are smaller.
Bigger helis are more easy to fly.

Quote:
Like RogerRabit said, I know path and tail, so my mind "fills in" the disc.
I was flying at a competition arround 12 years ago and talked to one of the better flying guys how he sees the heli against the grey clouds (he had the black razor blades also mounted).
He told me "i do not need to see the heli, i know what i have steered."
I did think at that time that he made fun out of me.
Later i did understand that better.

Quote:
Where I still get into trouble when hovering at a distance and tail is side-on, then I lose the tail angle
Side in hovering is a position with very few optical hints about the heli, especially far away.
The only thing there is to look where the heli is going and to keep calm.


Quote:
If blade wobble fails, the trick I use then is to pull up to a 45 degree tilt angle and piro the tail 90 degrees, then level off again (elevator, rudder, aileron). I repeat this till path and tail can be re-established so I can mentally "fill in the disc" so I can then "fly the disc".
This is something i keep telling my buddy.
He sometimes looks locked up at the heli while it is dropping to earth until the crash.

I allways tell him "rotate the tail" if you do not see or know the helis orientation. Your mind will establish the "mental heli position" inside a splitsecond again.
Our brain is working on differences and movements. It will take forever to analyze a static position but a splitsecond for a rotation.

Quote:
So when gitbse talks about flying the disc , he is talking anticipating it. The disc is a mental guide as to how to think "controls". These controls must be done ahead of the actual disc is (whether seen or not).
I see it the same. Flying the disc is somthing you do in your brain. The thumbs just do the work regarding to the tailīs orientation.
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:17 AM   #14 (permalink)
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but im sort of curious on all this "fly the disc" stuff, in a piro the tail is constantly moving so the turn angle etc directions constantly change. So you can't just watch the angle of the disc like you can say for flying a circuit or figure 8. I understand how you would "fly the disc" in that aspect but do not really understand how you can in a piro of any type.

Yes that is exactly what i do.
I do just watch the disc and the path.
Even if i do not see the disc i can imagine it from the path the tail swings.
I tell my mind how to steer the disk in terms of "more flat in the curve", "more speed (banking in flying direction" , "more banked", e.g.

In a piroflipping circuit i just watch the disk at the vertical, arround every 45 and the flatīs and steer in disc corrections in the inbetweens.
That way you have enough time to concentrate on the helis path.
If the disk at 45 is pointing out of the tangential of the circuit you can feed in a little more tail if it is pointing inside you can slow the tail a little.
If the heli is dropping you can feed in a little more collective there or if it is rising you can feed in the collective a little later.

Quote:
Are you watching the disc but making your reactions based off of the heli body position, tail in, nose in, side in, etc. as the piro is going around?
I watch the disc. The subconcious mind steers the thumbs. There is no time to think in terms of heli body analysis reaction.
When training that you do exactly what you describe.
You start out hovering the path with piros.
Letīs assume a circuit with ONE additional piro in circuit direction ccw circuit ccw piro.
You know that you have to steer 90 degree heli for each 45 degree circuit.
So the heli is parallel to you starting, pointing away on 45 degree, pointing left on 90 pointing towards you at 135 pointing parallel on 180 and the same on on the left side.

You will know that you have to lower the speed with drag-cyclic on the beginning, left-cyclic on 90, push cyclic on 180 and with the 45 degrees in between on cyclic at the 45s in the circuit.
When you have flown 100s of those you can just tell your brain "slower" and the thumbs will steer automatically in the right direction on cyclic.
Same is on banking in or out the curve.



Quote:
Just starting to work on them a bit more but i can do them ok in a hover going slow and fairly fast but once i give just a little to much in any direction to bring it back to me it starts to gain to much speed.
You are exactly at the point of getting it down.

When you feel the "heli is getting too much speed" this is just another way of saying "i am not ahead of the heli in control".
Is that bad?
No.
It is just the point that everything is in place.
If you can hover or fly a thing slow and coordinated everything is perfect.
It is paradox but by working on making things "slow motion" and very very precise you get faster.
Look at the way people learn kick-boxing, ballet, karate e.g.
Teaching the brain the slow motion will open up the speed.

Speed is comming with the number of gallons or electrons that you burn..
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Old 05-18-2013, 01:20 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
I was flying at a competition arround 12 years ago and talked to one of the better flying guys how he sees the heli against the grey clouds (he had the black razor blades also mounted).
He told me "i do not need to see the heli, i know what i have steered."
I did think at that time that he made fun out of me.
Later i did understand that better.
wow you've been in this game a long time

i fully agree with the memory of what you've done telling you the position of the heli. i think thats a massive part of how we orientate the heli. not all, but alot. to illustrate, i was flying the trex600n in the phoenix sim nightflight scenery the other day. i could hardly see the thing at all, but was mostly keeping control through circuits and 3d maneuvers. i only lost control when i forgot my orientation and couldn;t regain it by sight.
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Old 05-18-2013, 02:41 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Where I still get into trouble when hovering at a distance and tail is side-on, then I lose the tail angle. Clicky's trick of blade wobble sometimes helps, but if the blades are invisible, I can still be lost. If blade wobble fails, the trick I use then is to pull up to a 45 degree tilt angle and piro the tail 90 degrees, then level off again (elevator, rudder, aileron). I repeat this till path and tail can be re-established so I can mentally "fill in the disc" so I can then "fly the disc".
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRabit View Post
Yes that is exactly what i do.
I do just watch the disc and the path.
...

I watch the disc. The subconcious mind steers the thumbs. There is no time to think in terms of heli body analysis reaction.
That's kind of core of the problem. When you are concentrated and you have appropriate (visual) feedback everything makes sense. But with lack of experience it gets harder to fill in the gaps. RogerRabit flies so long that his mind draws disc even when it can't be seen. Also, I bet that his moves from one to another figure are much more defined, faster and structured than mine.

The worse happens when brain get 'disconnected' with what is going on in the sky. Then it needs to pick up cues and build the picture. 4-5 years ago I used to crash if I let it go for too long without input (on a grey days) - picking it up again caused too much of issue for me and couldn't react properly. And lack of orientation skills, of course. Even now I catch myself from time to time to lose it and on days I can't see disc I do not feel comfortable enough. Usually I am not and do not fly 'new' or 'challenging' stuff for me. And all because of that delay of re-establishing what is going on. This all could be just me.

And again - same on nice sunny days where I do see the disc - I feel far more confident and able. Probably because of being able to easily anticipate helicopter position and direction (at the same time), thus I feel more connected...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gitbse View Post
I do so much piro'ing that most of what will be discussed here will tie into that. I feel that if you can control a piro, you can control the heli no matter what. I will focus on basics though, and then get some advanced stuff. I kinda like the pictures.
Ah. To add to those above. Archmage mentioned 'shaking' heli left/right to re-establish connection connection. I used it before when I let helicopter stationary (relatively speaking) - with no inputs for some time (even 2 seconds is enough) or when started learning slow pirouettes and getting into unfamiliar orientations. But, now, I caught myself doing a pirouette instead! Maybe doing a pirouette helps re-establishing where the disc is (supposed to be). Especially when inverted - I would rather do pirouette (to nose in) or even continue doing them - just to re-establish helis position...

Speaking of pirouetting - I haven't been doing them properly for ages now. Yesterday I took my nano (perfect trainer - almost like practising with weights) and had a go at piro circuits. Upright and inverted. The low point was CW inverted piro circuit where at after two/three circuits I managed to lose it and it went over my right shoulder back to left and over my neighbour's fence. Fortunately he wasn't at home and I managed to sneak in his garden to retrieve it. I have already seen myself ringing at his door and asking for my toys back!
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Old 05-18-2013, 09:55 AM   #17 (permalink)
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First off, I would like to thank Gitbse, Roger, and Clicky for taking the time to provide valuable input to these threads! Sometimes, they are not easy to describe. Especially since I am OCD and need to know exactly how something works.

I would like to mention I'm exactly on the path you guys describe. I have all my upright forwards and backwards, inverted forwards and backwards, and can do all 16 funnels. I do not do any hard 3D. I am a smooth flyer and like to see the heli flying. So now I have arrived at the point in my training which you guys are describing.

For Gitbse, I feel this drill is invaluable to your learning. Much like stationary piros, this will open up your world to almost everything you can accomplish. When flying these circuits, I don't think about the compass points. Rather I imagine the 4 points of the circle where I have a nose-up CCW circuit, a CCW forward circuit, a nose-down CCW funnel, and a backwards CCW circuit. So in the beginning as I pass each orientation, I will tell myself to use right cyclic, back cyclic, left cyclic, and forward cyclic in that order. I don't necessarily think about the compass points, but in a sense I am.

Now as Roger says, you still have to steer at the 45 points as well to obtain a smooth circle. Right now, my circles are not very concentric but I just continue to practice. Like everything else you do, it's just slowing things down until you become comfortable enough to do it by muscle memory / eye coordination. But in a sense I'm still flying the disk at all times. Soon I will be able to make corrections in any phase of the circuit.

Good discussion guys! I would love to be able to fly with each and everyone of you!

Doug
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Last edited by kickbackkid; 05-18-2013 at 02:03 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:09 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Yea, well said. Eventually you will get to a point where you will constantly correct no matter where the stick is, and where the heli is pointing. It will be subconscious, you won't have to think about any of. Our hands are much smarter than our brains.

And to that point again, learning piro hovering and circuits wil take the same profession. When you start learning, you can only only correct at certain points, say noise in and tail in. Other than that, you let it just fly itself. Eventually you will be able to correct more points, then all the way around.
Same thing with piro circuits. When I stated to learn them, I could only correct while flying certain ways. Tail first inverted, tail down funnel and upright nose first. Other than that, I had to let the heli fly itself through, and wait for the noise to rotate to a position I could contest correct from. Then you start to correct through a larger range.
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:20 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Also, on the 45 degree angle steering... since I saw nick maxwell doing 45 degree hurricanes, I had to do it. In fact, they are no different than a regular hurricane, except the body is at a 45 instead of tail up/down, or nose/tail forward. However, the cool part comes because aall of us are so defined in the two stick axes, that it just doesn't make sense. If done just right, it looks like the machine shouldn't be in the air. and because we are so aileron/elevator defined, vs. all around "one cyclic" control, it takes some practice.
They're simple, but it's probably the coolest looking thing I can do.
Reversing piro flips are cool and all, ut when I break out a 45 degree hurricane, all my friends jaws just drop.

I was right behind the flight line at the one competition at ircha last year, and the 45 hurricane single handidly won the competition for nick. Watch it on youtube, the crowd went freakin crazy!
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Old 05-18-2013, 02:02 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gitbse View Post
Also, on the 45 degree angle steering... since I saw nick maxwell doing 45 degree hurricanes, I had to do it. In fact, they are no different than a regular hurricane, except the body is at a 45 instead of tail up/down, or nose/tail forward. However, the cool part comes because aall of us are so defined in the two stick axes, that it just doesn't make sense. If done just right, it looks like the machine shouldn't be in the air. and because we are so aileron/elevator defined, vs. all around "one cyclic" control, it takes some practice.
They're simple, but it's probably the coolest looking thing I can do.
Reversing piro flips are cool and all, ut when I break out a 45 degree hurricane, all my friends jaws just drop.

I was right behind the flight line at the one competition at ircha last year, and the 45 hurricane single handidly won the competition for nick. Watch it on youtube, the crowd went freakin crazy!
I don't think I've ever seen that move. Now you have my curiosity up. I will look for that video!!
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