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Blade 450X Blade 450X Helicopters Information and Help


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Old 04-09-2014, 05:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Anyone running 425M on tail?

I changed out my stock DS76T rudder servo to an Align 425M. The tail is now erratic resulting in huge tail wags.

I'm running the AR7200BX v3. Setting C tail servo pulse length = 1520 microseconds. Setting D tail servo frequency = 333Hz. My tail gain is 77% or "H" on the AR7200BX. I tried lowering the gain down to 70% with no difference in results. The only other thing I ended up having to do was reverse the direction on the rudder channel. Other than that, I thought this was a straightforward swap of servos. Heli was flying fine with the DS76T. No bent shafts or spindle.

Anything I could have missed?

PS, I'm stepping the servo down to 5.1V. It is rated for up to 6V but that shouldn't affect anything.
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Old 04-09-2014, 06:35 PM   #2 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=nismoflip;5770456]I changed out my stock DS76T rudder servo to an Align 425M. The tail is now erratic resulting in huge tail wags.

I'm running the AR7200BX v3. Setting C tail servo pulse length = 1520 microseconds. Setting D tail servo frequency = 333Hz. My tail gain is 77% or "H" on the AR7200BX. I tried lowering the gain down to 70% with no difference in results. The only other thing I ended up having to do was reverse the direction on the rudder channel. Other than that, I thought this was a straightforward swap of servos. Heli was flying fine with the DS76T. No bent shafts or spindle.

Anything I could have missed?

PS, I'm stepping the servo down to 5.1V. It is rated for up to 6V but that shouldn't affect anything.

I assume your using the DX6i if you said your gain was at 77. Try going even lower than 70. When I changed to my 5084mg tail servo I has to drop to somewhere around 60 I believe.... Just play with the gain more. Just make sure your beastx light stays blue while tour changing, if you go to low on the gain it will turn purple and we don't want that!! Lol hope it helps. Gain (gyro)
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Old 04-09-2014, 06:46 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I had the exact same servo on my tail, running at 6V ( ESC set to 6V ). Here's what I did to make it better;

1. Turned gain down to 63-65, in that range ( DX6i ).
2. Put the pitch control rod ball in the inner most hole on the servo arm. This was maybe a millimeter or so closer than stock.

This gave the least amount of wag, which was still noticeable. Flew it like that for awhile, could not eliminate it.

What I did to fix it;

Put on a HiTec 5083MG servo. What a difference, rock solid.

I thought maybe it was my imagination, maybe something else I did fixed it, etc. So I put the Align on my 300X, and there she goes, wagging tail. Put a JR on there instead, solid tail.

I'm told the Align is a great servo, and I believe it, but I think for some reason it just didn't play well with my heli's.

Good luck.

PS; Check your Piro Compensation too. I had to reverse mine ( opposite setting from stock ).

Last edited by C_M_H; 04-09-2014 at 06:48 PM.. Reason: Added Piro Compensation check
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Old 04-10-2014, 12:13 AM   #4 (permalink)
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All good things to try. I'll let you know what I find. I'm running a DX7se. I'll go lower on the gain and maybe inboard a hole on the servo wheel. If all else fails I'll try out that HS-5083. Thanks guys.
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Old 04-10-2014, 09:24 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I ran that servo for a while when I first got the 450X. I was able to minimize the wag through a combination of mechanical and electronic gain adjustments but it was never that great. Eventually the servo lost some of it's ability to center precisely which resulted in slow wag that could not be tuned out. I have been running another 425M on my 300X for a while and it's been OK, it's a lot more solid than it was on the 450X. I think the 425M is just barely capable of keeping up with the tail on the 450X at 6V, so it's probably never going to be perfect, especially at 5V. The best advice I can give is not to cheap out on the tail servo if you want a solid performing heli.
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Old 04-11-2014, 11:04 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm also having issue with the 425m. I've had it run by a Bavarian 3SX and now the AR7200BX. On both, I can't get the tail to be right. It gives a little in hard maneuvers. I just plan on replacing it with a better servo.
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Old 04-11-2014, 06:03 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I also tried the 425s and could'nt get all the wag out so I went back to the stocker. I'm gonna get the Hitec 5083mg.
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Old 04-11-2014, 06:17 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I just bought the 5084mg.

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Old 04-11-2014, 07:22 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Anyone running 425M on tail?

I'm getting a slow intermittent wag on my stock servo post crash. Gain was set at 54 and tail held fine.. Now after the crash I'm getting this slow wag, turned gain up to 60 with no change. Could the servo be damaged somehow?


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Old 04-11-2014, 09:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Could also be tail radial or thrust bearings. Or slightly bent shaft or hub.

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Old 04-12-2014, 08:04 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellimaster View Post
I'm getting a slow intermittent wag on my stock servo post crash. Gain was set at 54 and tail held fine.. Now after the crash I'm getting this slow wag, turned gain up to 60 with no change. Could the servo be damaged somehow?


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Try to reduce the gain one point at a time. On my DX8 my gain is quite a bit lower than the manual recommends.
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Old 04-12-2014, 08:12 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellimaster View Post
I'm getting a slow intermittent wag on my stock servo post crash. Gain was set at 54 and tail held fine.. Now after the crash I'm getting this slow wag, turned gain up to 60 with no change. Could the servo be damaged somehow
Intermittent wag indicates a mechanical issue. Gyro wags are usually more pronounced and violent.

Imagine the stress applied to the servo as a tail wags violently back and forth, then next time you set up a heli tail gain start low and raise the gain til the tail preforms, but don't keep going til you get a violent wag. And if you notice a chatter in turns, or violent wag stop flying.

Even if you have a nice tail servo, you are still wearing out the center.

I've had a 425M for a while now and I ignore the oscillations. But If I wanted to fix it and I was sure the servo still held center, I'd look at the head and main shaft bearings first.

Think of vibrations that may occur on the same axis the gyro sensors work. If you have a head bearing that adds noise to the frequency, the gyro is working with that noise as it signals the servo. When you add gain you are amplifying any noise the gyro is working with and therefor the gyro will work the servo harder as the increased noise makes the signal less accurate, requiring more corrections. Not always, but sometimes this is the oscillation we are seeing in our tails.
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Old 04-12-2014, 10:54 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Anyone running 425M on tail?

Well, the guy I bought mine from held off sending it to me because the tail started this same slow wag symptom. He replaced the tail servo (stock) and it fixed the issue. Sooooo.. I'm gonna dig a little more into the mechanical side but willing to bet it's the servo flakin out.


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Old 04-12-2014, 11:01 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Anyone running 425M on tail?

Also just to note.... I'm still on stock motor without loctite mod with at least 30 flights from me not to mention previous owner.. But anywho, I replaced ALL the shafts, head dampers, main and tail blades. Not too much vibe goin on.


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Old 04-12-2014, 09:11 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I've had minimal flights on my 450X but I'm pretty happy with the stock tail servo. What can be gained by using different servo? By the way my gyro on my Dx6i is 67-68 with the stock servo.
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Old 04-12-2014, 11:08 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellimaster View Post
Also just to note.... I'm still on stock motor without loctite mod with at least 30 flights from me not to mention previous owner.. But anywho, I replaced ALL the shafts, head dampers, main and tail blades. Not too much vibe goin on.
For conversation sake the motor bearing operates on the same axis as the main shaft bearings, which is what you want to rule out. The difference between a worn bearing and a bent shaft are vast as far as the gyro is concerned.

Also, tight mains will make your shit oscillate.
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Old 04-12-2014, 11:43 PM   #17 (permalink)
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My 2 cents, I fought intermittent tail issues for a long time, annoying slow wags, etc. one day I finally stepped my game up and got an MKS DS95i. Best decision ever. I can't believe how amazing the tail is on my 450x. I wasted dollars and days replacing stuff on my heli that may have been bad, may not have. A great servo is a great investment.
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Old 04-13-2014, 07:15 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Im running stock servos still without any servo related issues.

Regarding the tail I found the original plastic blade grips to have too much play, and I also had slight tail wag from time to another.

Long story short I changed the whole tail box, arm and grips to Lynx. No play in any of the moving parts, and the tail has never been more solid and stable.
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Old 04-14-2014, 12:13 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Ok. I gave it another shot today with the 425M. Ran it on 6v, played with the gain, horn lengths. Nada. I can't get this servo to perform. I was able to drop the gain enough to reduce the wag but resulting in very poor tail performance. I'm buying an HSG-5084 MG tomorrow.
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:32 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Let us know how it works. I have one on order myself

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