Phoenix Setup with DX6i step-by-step guide - HeliFreak
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Old 09-02-2013, 09:13 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Phoenix Setup with DX6i step-by-step guide

--- v5 setup guide ---

This is in response to requests for a step-by-step guide on how to set up a DX6i for use with Phoenix.

Please read "Simulator setup" (https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=538755) for more information as to how simulators work with TX's.

I assume Phoenix is already installed at this stage, so I will not put in instructions on how to install Phoenix.

Next we need to prepare the DX6i for connection.
  • Power on the DX6i. (do not attach sim trainer cable yet).
  • In adjust menu, select a blank model, or a model to erase.
  • In setup menu, use Copy/Reset to reset this model. (this ensures, no trim, sub-trim, travel adjust, or other settings that can affect calibration)
  • Also in setup menu, select model type of heli (this is HeliFreak). We want pitch and throttle on the same stick, but calibrated properly.
  • In setup menu, put in a model name of sim (so it does not get confused with other models)
  • In adjust menu, change the gyro to 10,90 with switch of gyro
  • Set throttle curve of hold +10

DX6i should be ready for connection to Phoenix. You can turn it off.

Start Phoenix on your computer. Cable can must be attached. DX6i must be plugged into the cable. (this will power the DX6i on without powering the RF transmitter module)

We are going to calibrate the DX6i as a new transmitter to Phoenix.

  • Go to the Phoenix main menu.
  • Select "System > Your Controls"
  • Delete any unwanted profiles (like old DX6i if one there)
  • Select New profile
  • Name: My DX6i (note: DX6i on its own is too short)
  • Select Quick Setup
  • Center all sticks - Next
  • Raise Throttle/coll (Ch1) - Next
  • Collective up (Ch6) - Next
  • Rudder right (Ch4) - Next
  • Elevator up (Ch3) - Next
  • Aileron right (Ch2) - Next
  • Gear - Skip
  • Flaps (gyro) (Ch5) - Next
  • Finish
  • Edit profile
  • Assign heli gyro to (Ch5) - This is not done automatically
  • Finished

Now that Phoenix knows the correct limits for the DX6i channels, we can now alter the DX6i settings the way we want. We want to control the model by the DX6i settings, not the built in model overrides. This way we can get better control (like working Throttle hold, DR&Expo settings we want, different throttle curves and pitch curve, etc)

Disconnect the DX6i from the trainer cable (it will turn off). And power the DX6i on by the switch.

Suggested DX6i settings:

Throttle curves:
  • (Normal - 0,56.5,72.5,72.5,72.5)
  • (Stunt - 72.5,72.5,72.5,72.5,72.5) conservative
  • (Stunt - 100,100,100,100,100) aggressive (what I use)
  • (Hold - 10) (DX6i bug. This comes out as 0)

Pitch curves:
  • (Normal - 45, 51, 60, 73.5, 91.0)
  • (Stunt - 0, 25, 50, 75, 100)
  • (Hold - 0, 25, 50, 75, 100)

In setup list, set D/R COMBI to D/R SW:RUDD (optional, but allows all the DR&Expo settings to be changed by hitting one switch, instead of 3 (one for each channel)

Set DR&Expo to taste. I use:
  • pos 0: (80/20 80/20 100/20)
  • pos 1: (100/20 100/20 100/20) (use Rudd Dr switch to change between positions if you used the D/R Combi setting I mentioned earlier)

Set Gyro to (75,25). Phoenix treats this as an on/off switch, so specific values are not required. Model programming is needed to really affect model gyro settings. This will just turn heading hold on and off. I fly heading hold permanently on.

Now we have out DX6i how we like it, we can turn it off, then connect the Phoenix cable to the trainer port (which will re-power the DX6i without the RF transmitter).

Since the DX6i has the flight settings we want, we have to tell Phoenix not to override them. By default it assumes you are using a dumb 4 channel controller with switches (like a plane). We need to tell Phoenix, we know what we are doing with throttle AND collective, and the we control the DR&expo.

In Phoenix menu, select "Model", then "Change" and select the heli you want to fly (this example uses the "SAB Goblin 700" in "Helicopters", "Electric"), then click "Finished" to select. I suggest flying 700 size as they are easier to see and more docile initially, and in Phoenix cost nothing when they crash. However you can choose whatever you like.

Next we want to change the model to have our inputs (not the defaults for the model).

In Phoenix menu, select "Model", "Edit".

In the "Edit Model Attributes" screen, press the "Advanced" button.

On the left of this window click on "Model" ("Physical", "Fine tuning" and "Controls" should drop down).

Click on "Controls" ("Throttle", "Elevator", "Aileron", "Rudder" and "Collective" should drop down)

Now to tune:
  • In Model > Controls > Elevator: Set expo to 0% (uses expo in transmitter now) - Do not alter low rate, you will not use it anyway.
  • In Model > Controls > Aileron: Set expo to 0% (uses expo in transmitter now) - Do not alter low rate, you will not use it anyway.
  • In Model > Controls > Rudder: Set expo to 0% (uses expo in transmitter now) - Do not alter low rate, you will not use it anyway.


I have found you don't really need the governor (unless you really want to be picky), so the following is how to have the RPM follow the throttle input.
  • In Main Rotor > Governor: Uncheck enable (but take note of RPM number - SAB Goblin 700 is 2250 - Assume this is max RPM you want to get to)
  • In Main Rotor > Engine: Set max RPM to (RPM * Gear ratio) - (2250 * 8.5 = 19125 for SAB Goblin 700)
  • Select finished and you copy of the model will be saved (as Heli - Copy)

You should be able to fly normally after all this (normal mode or idle up).

I'm sure there will be some debate over this (as there is more than one method for all this). This is the method I find most flexible for model configuration for flight.


--- Original v4 setup guide ---

This is in response to requests for a step-by-step guide on how to set up a DX6i for use with Phoenix.

Please read "Simulator setup" (https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=538755) for more information as to how simulators work with TX's.

I assume Phoenix is already installed at this stage, so I will not put in instructions on how to install Phoenix.

Next we need to prepare the DX6i for connection.
  • Power on the DX6i. (do not attach sim trainer cable yet).
  • In adjust menu, select a blank model, or a model to erase.
  • In setup menu, use Copy/Reset to reset this model. (this ensures, no trim, sub-trim, travel adjust, or other settings that can affect calibration)
  • Also in setup menu, select model type of heli (this is HeliFreak). We want pitch and throttle on the same stick, but calibrated properly.
  • In setup menu, put in a model name of sim (so it does not get confused with other models)
  • In adjust menu, change the gyro to 10,90 with switch of gyro
  • Set throttle curve of hold +10

DX6i should be ready for connection to Phoenix. You can turn it off.

Start Phoenix on your computer. Cable can must be attached. DX6i must be plugged into the cable. (this will power the DX6i on without powering the RF transmitter module)

We are going to calibrate the DX6i as a new transmitter to Phoenix.
  • Go to the Phoenix main menu.
  • Select "System > Your Controls"
  • Delete any unwanted profiles (like old DX6i if one there)
  • Select New profile
  • Name: My DX6i (note: DX6i on its own is too short)
  • Select Quick Setup
  • Center all sticks - Next
  • Raise Throttle/coll (Ch1) - Next
  • Collective up (Ch6) - Next
  • Rudder right (Ch4) - Next
  • Elevator up (Ch3) - Next
  • Aileron right (Ch2) - Next
  • Gear - Skip
  • Flaps (gyro) (Ch5) - Next
  • Finish
  • Edit profile
  • Assign heli gyro to (Ch5) - This is not done automatically
  • Finished

Now that Phoenix knows the correct limits for the DX6i channels, we can now alter the DX6i settings the way we want. We want to control the model by the DX6i settings, not the built in model overrides. This way we can get better control (like working Throttle hold, DR&Expo settings we want, different throttle curves and pitch curve, etc)

Disconnect the DX6i from the trainer cable (it will turn off). And power the DX6i on by the switch.

Suggested DX6i settings:

Throttle curves:
  • (Normal - 0,56.5,72.5,72.5,72.5)
  • (Stunt - 72.5,72.5,72.5,72.5,72.5) conservative
  • (Stunt - 100,100,100,100,100) aggressive (what I use)
  • (Hold - 10) (DX6i bug. This comes out as 0)
Pitch curves:
  • (Normal - 45, 51, 60, 73.5, 91.0)
  • (Stunt - 0, 25, 50, 75, 100)
  • (Hold - 0, 25, 50, 75, 100)

In setup list, set D/R COMBI to D/R SW:RUDD (optional, but allows all the DR&Expo settings to be changed by hitting one switch, instead of 3 (one for each channel)

Set DR&Expo to taste. I use:
  • pos 0: (80/20 80/20 100/20)
  • pos 1: (100/20 100/20 100/20) (use Rudd Dr switch to change between positions if you used the D/R Combi setting I mentioned earlier)

Set Gyro to (75,25). Phoenix treats this as an on/off switch, so specific values ar not required. Model programming is needed to really affect model gyro settings. This will just turn heading hold on and off. I fly heading hold permanently on.

Now we have out DX6i how we like it, we can turn it off, then connect the Phoenix cable to the trainer port (which will re-power the DX6i without the RF transmitter).

Since the DX6i has the flight settings we want, we have to tell Phoenix not to override them. By default it assumes you are using a dumb 4 channel controller with switches (like a plane). We need to tell Phoenix, we know what we are doing with throttle AND collective, and the we control the DR&expo.

In Phoenix, go into Model tuning (detailed)
  • In options: De-select use preset throttle curve
  • In Control Expo: Set all expo to 0
  • In Rotor Governor: Set to Disable

You should be able to fly normally after all this.

I'm sure there will be some debate over this (as there is more than one method for all this). This is the method I find most flexible for model configuration for flight.

I still need to do a DX6i for beginners guide (as configuring a DX6i is quite a learning curve for a new pilot).

Tell me what you think.
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Last edited by ArchmageAU; 04-12-2015 at 06:06 AM..
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Old 09-05-2013, 10:38 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Thank you for the post.

I just recently got these two items and had no trouble setting a model and got it up and running. However, I have no idea if it is correct. This guide should allow me to make sure it is flying like a CP bird should. And know that it is getting the settings from the transmitter and not Phoenix. I have not flown a real CP bird yet, so I want to make sure I learn the correct feel. At this point it "seems" to fly correct. Very hard to hover strait (which is expected) but does what I tell it. And I can always see why I fail. I am sure it is really that hard or more so IRL. The only thing I don't like is it seems like I have to push the left stick up too much to get enough pitch to get air borne. Seems to take off at about 75%. Maybe that is correct, but after I go through these steps then I will know. So thanks again sir.
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:18 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Phoenix Setup with DX6i step-by-step guide

I think mine hovers at about the first line above the center mark. If in doubt go through the calibration. you can monitor all the channels in there, make sure they're all centered on your controller and on the screen.

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Old 09-05-2013, 05:56 PM   #4 (permalink)
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...The only thing I don't like is it seems like I have to push the left stick up too much to get enough pitch to get air borne. Seems to take off at about 75%. Maybe that is correct, but after I go through these steps then I will know.....
Depends on which model. More "underpowered" models require more pitch to fly.

The instructions turn off the in-built governors in Phoenix (which lock the helis into an RPM range). I noticed with the Trex 700 that the governed speeds was above 100% throttle (ungoverned).

You can try re-enabling the rotor governor and see if that makes a difference.
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:50 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Went through all of these settings last night. And they were spot on my friend. Heli was a bit more stable and easier to hover. When I switched to the Stunt settings or '1' I guess you call them, my lift off point got to where I wanted it. About 1 notch above center. On '0' it took a bit more of course. It was nice to know my transmitter was actually controlling the settings and not the sim.

Only questions I have at this point are about the gyro settings. I did set the gyro switch to RUDD in hopes of using once switch to go from 0 to 1 settings for all 3 channels. I guess this worked but it was switched by using my gyro/flap switch. Is that correct? I guess I was thinking it was the Rudder switch. But when I switched you could surely see the rotor speed up at 1/4 stick. So I know it worked for throttle but did I do it right and it did switch aileron, rudder and elev with one switch? I assume that is the same for a real heli as well.

Also, did I read it wrong when I thought I saw you mention the gyro should be at 90/10 then later on down you had 75/25? I am sure that is just me not understanding. I set it at 75/25.

I know these are newby questions so thanks for your patience. I am only a dozen or so flights into my 120 SR so I got a long way to go and want to make sure I learn correctly for my jump to CP. Anyway, all systems go and thank you so much for the information.

Last edited by codyw20; 09-06-2013 at 08:52 AM.. Reason: Additional Info: I am flying the TREX 550. It looks like the largest FBL electric I have so far.
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Boy, this thread is exactly what the doctor ordered (though I'm a little late to the party).

I've been flying Clearview for over a year and got fed up with it and bought Phoenix. I received yesterday and loaded last night and played around some. My problem is, all helis fly like I've got Expo of 100+ instead of 30. The large stick movements required for the CP helis feel a lot more like I'm flying my 120SR than my MCPX v2. Since I was just goofing around last night, I didn't worry about it too much, but knew I had to fix it before seriously using Phoenix (as is, Clearview is more realistic). I wondered if there was some override, which was causing my txmitter settings to be exacerbated or totally ignored due to a setting in Phoenix. For a newbie, these settings would probably be great, but for me, they made the helis difficult to do much other than throw the helis around in absolutely any direction and then make corrections and throw in another direction... kind of fun, but not very realistic. Felt almost more like flying planes than helis.

I'll use this information to see if I can get things right. I really want the txmitter settings to control everything as that is what I Iuse with real aircraft. I realize that I could just change expo to a negative setting, but then my txmitter settings for the sim would have no correlation to what I'm using in the field.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
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... I wondered if there was some override, which was causing my txmitter settings to be exacerbated or totally ignored due to a setting in Phoenix. For a newbie, these settings would probably be great, but for me, they made the helis difficult to do much other than throw the helis around in absolutely any direction and then make corrections and throw in another direction....
The following should cover most of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageAU View Post
...
In Phoenix, go into Model tuning (detailed)
  • In options: De-select use preset throttle curve
  • In Control Expo: Set all expo to 0
  • In Rotor Governor: Set to Disable
...
Also check that the transmitter does not think there is expo on the input channels either that it need to apply. (in "System > Your Controls" for your transmitter).

If TX AND the transmitter interface AND the model are all adding expo, this will make a heli feel really sloppy. Choose one of the the three and disable the other two (I tend to use TX programming only).
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Old 09-17-2013, 11:01 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Everything is better now that I've setup as described. My only issue is with the gyro. Admittedly, I don't fully understand gyro/gain, but when the gyro switch is engaged, the heli is pretty much locked in a position that I can't really overcome with rudder movement. If I move rudder left or right, the heli will turn in that direction, but as soon as I let go of the stick, it turns in the other direction. Simply, it is locked in a position that rudder movement will only temporarily change.
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Old 09-17-2013, 11:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
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.... My only issue is with the gyro. Admittedly, I don't fully understand gyro/gain, but when the gyro switch is engaged, the heli is pretty much locked in a position that I can't really overcome with rudder movement. If I move rudder left or right, the heli will turn in that direction, but as soon as I let go of the stick, it turns in the other direction. Simply, it is locked in a position that rudder movement will only temporarily change.
In rate mode gyro, the tail can "weather vein" in behind the motion of air past the heli. In heading hold mode, the tail should stay where it is put.

This is an over-simplification, but close enough for the purpose.

Fly in a mode where the tail stays where it is put (heading hold) unless you are deliberately flying scale.

Only once you get into advanced 3D, or RC heli precision (F3C) do the finer points of tail gyro setup become important (ie. wag, slop, bounce, drift, etc...).
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Old 09-18-2013, 03:19 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I've got the model gyro set to "Heading Hold", but the tail does as you've described. I figured out how to fly with it... you hold the rudder until the heli starts forward flight in that direction and then you can let go. I guess it is very stable in forward flight, but takes a lot of getting used to.

I've only flown an MCPX (only CP heli), and other than tail twitching, tail blowout, and maybe an occasional 1/8th rudder turn for no explainable reason, I've never experienced anything like this. I'm not sure if this "hold" on the tail is an exaggerated gain setting or if people really fly larger helis like this.

I guess my question is, do I just fly with the gyro switch in the 'off' position or is there an adjustment I need to make at the model level or on my txmitter? Right now the gain on my txmitter is set to 25 in the 'off' position and 75 in the 'on' position (I use 0 for 'off' and 1 for 'on').
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:17 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I've got the model gyro set to "Heading Hold", but the tail does as you've described. I figured out how to fly with it... you hold the rudder until the heli starts forward flight in that direction and then you can let go. I guess it is very stable in forward flight, but takes a lot of getting used to. ...
The way a gyro work in Phoenix is:
  • Rate mode gyro allow the tail to weather vein, heading hold gyros (when active) do not.
  • When using a heading hold gyro, low (negative) values on the gyro channel ENABLE the heading hold gyro function, high (positive) values high on the gyro channel DISABLE the heading hold function. THIS IS COUNTER INTUATIVE. Usually heading hold is positive values and rate mode is negative values (at least for the AR7200BX).
  • When using a rate mode gyro, the tail will not hold when flying backwards. Rate mode stops "blow out" when sudden collective changes are applied (pitch pumps), but does not prevent drift or "weather veining".

You want to fly in heading hold (the mode where you must steer the tail to keep it behind you). Easy way to test is to: hover tail-in a moderate way out from you try to bring the heli back to you tail first without touching the rudder. If the heli turns, heading hold is off. If the heli remains facing the same direction, heading hold is on.

If you want to fly backwards or sideways (or have an easier time landing in the wind), you need to learn to fly RC heli with heading hold ON. One thing you do not have in the sim (unless you enable it) is wind. One thing you cannot avoid in real life when flying outdoors is wind.

If you only want to fly scale (or vintage), then you can learn rate mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crashjack View Post
I've only flown an MCPX (only CP heli), and other than tail twitching, tail blowout, and maybe an occasional 1/8th rudder turn for no explainable reason, I've never experienced anything like this. I'm not sure if this "hold" on the tail is an exaggerated gain setting or if people really fly larger helis like this.
mCPX is not a good example of tail control (quite the opposite in fact). There are issues with 2nd motor fixed pitch tails that do not occur in larger helis. Check out the 450x, 300x or 130x at your LHS. When you turn the main blades CW, the tail moves. This is the way most RC helis fly (and most full scale too).

Quote:
Originally Posted by crashjack View Post
I guess my question is, do I just fly with the gyro switch in the 'off' position or is there an adjustment I need to make at the model level or on my txmitter? Right now the gain on my txmitter is set to 25 in the 'off' position and 75 in the 'on' position (I use 0 for 'off' and 1 for 'on').
Phoenix will state the gyro is "off", when heading hold is ON (This is weird, but that is Phoenix). Phoenix will state the gyro is "on" when rate mode setting of the heading hold gyro is enabled.

In summary, you want to fly heading hold gyro on the model with gyro channel low. This way you have control of the tail, not the wind. This is how you would usually fly bigger RC helis.

Hope this makes sense.
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Old 09-18-2013, 11:07 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Yes, it definitely helps. I guess by turning the gyro switch on my radio 'on', I was disabling Heading Hold in Phoenix... easy enough to fix, I'll just use the sim with my txmitter gyro switch 'off'. Though I fly an MCPX for real, I don't fly that on the sim. I've mainly been flying the T-Rex 550 flybarless with the passive flybarless enabled, just using the standard Phoenix flybarless settings. I plan to get myself a T-Rex 450 Pro DFC for Christmas and plan to fly with an AR7200BX. The MCPX is really just a real-life trainer. I figure if I can get to the point to where I can comfortably fly a twitchy heli that I can't see, I can fly a more stable heli that I can see... I hope I'm right.

Any recommended Phoenix settings... flybarless settings, etc. to help emulate my soon to be purchased 450?
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Old 11-23-2013, 12:20 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageAU View Post
...
I still need to do a DX6i for beginners guide (as configuring a DX6i is quite a learning curve for a new pilot).
I have now finished the DX6i for beginners guide and posted it to the Newbies area.

"Newbies guide to the DX6i for RC helicopters" (https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=580508)

It has a step-by-step fast start to enable programming of a DX6i. It also includes everything you ever (and never) wanted to know about the DX6i.

Enjoy.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:02 AM   #14 (permalink)
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got it… did it…

Now when calibrating it did not recognize my right throttle position.

so i had to do left and it did recognize it then

then in the program i had to invert my rudder movement

(no big deal i guess) BUT…

right and left rudder movement has different speeds… greatly different speeds.


Question…. When calibrating should all sticks remain in the extreme position, or should they be in the center position before hitting next?

Then, the described method for allowing the controller to dominate over the programs control input does not work for me.

"In Phoenix, go into Model tuning (detailed)
In options: De-select use preset throttle curve
In Control Expo: Set all expo to 0
In Rotor Governor: Set to Disable"

My settings don't have a "model tuning" option

its knda working but i can tell that it is to really working

Help!
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Old 01-24-2014, 08:18 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Katstrike View Post
got it… did it…

Now when calibrating it did not recognize my right throttle position.

so i had to do left and it did recognize it then

then in the program i had to invert my rudder movement

(no big deal i guess) BUT…

right and left rudder movement has different speeds… greatly different speeds.


Question…. When calibrating should all sticks remain in the extreme position, or should they be in the center position before hitting next?
Should return sticks to centre after calibrating.

The default model has linear curves and 100/0 DR&expo, so this should calibrate properly.

DO NOT use your flying model configuration to Phoenix. Your flying model may have changes to TA, sub-trim and reverse which change the behaviour of Phoneix.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Katstrike View Post

Then, the described method for allowing the controller to dominate over the programs control input does not work for me.

"In Phoenix, go into Model tuning (detailed)
In options: De-select use preset throttle curve
In Control Expo: Set all expo to 0
In Rotor Governor: Set to Disable"

My settings don't have a "model tuning" option
This is surprising. Each model in Phoenix should be able to be tuned separately. Can you screen shot (or describe) the menu you are using to get to model settings.
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Old 01-30-2014, 09:02 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Thanks for taking the time to write this up! Would the settings for DR/expo and the curves be ideal for someone who is just learning to fly CP? Or should there be a bit less DR and more expo?

Thanks,
Rick
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Old 01-30-2014, 09:27 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katstrike View Post
...
My settings don't have a "model tuning" option

its knda working but i can tell that it is to really working

Help!
I think that you may need to go to the Model menu, select Edit, then click on the Detailed button to get access to these settings.

Later,
Rick
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:22 AM   #18 (permalink)
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hey ArchmageAU,
can you give me some help me adjusting my controller with values of a beginner,so i can make a good hover and train on circles?
i went through this thread and it was nice and i have understood a lots of points here,but i still need a lot of help to fully understand this whole thing
thanks in advance
wes
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:48 AM   #19 (permalink)
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good job
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Old 02-13-2014, 07:33 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wesam el View Post
hey ArchmageAU,
can you give me some help me adjusting my controller with values of a beginner,so i can make a good hover and train on circles?
i went through this thread and it was nice and i have understood a lots of points here,but i still need a lot of help to fully understand this whole thing
thanks in advance
wes
Set a flat idle up (sport mode) 60, 60, 60, 60, 60 (or any other value that gives a slow but manageable head speed).

Lower the aileron and elevator DR in the DX6i to 50% (or until not too reactive for you).

This give the heli in the sim (and in real life) a VERY soft feel. Adjust expo to taste so you do not over or under correct.

As you progress increase the DR. Once at 100% DR, increase head speed.

The DX6i for Newbies (in the newbies forum) explains LOADS about the DX6i (how to configure and how it works).


Quote:
Originally Posted by wesam el View Post
good job
Thank you.
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