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Old 10-25-2013, 08:38 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default My 1st scale project - HeliArtist 500 AH-64 Apache

Hi All,

I bought a good used HeliArtist kit from a fellow HF member. It's just the body and frame. I'm relatively new to RC heli's, as such, I suck at flying. I've always like helicopters and fly in them when I can. RC heli's are cool, but, scale is even cooler.

Anyways, I was hoping for a kit that had everything selected where I would just put it together. This was not the case. As such, I need your help please. I'm not sure what is right, wrong, good, or bad. Here's my plan...

The kit appears to be an Align 500 frame. It has an elevated tail section that makes it back heavy. Tail blades are on the right side, but, I wanna change that to the left side; however, the servo linkage/pitch thingy seems to be a problem for that. Where can I find that piece?

I'm gonna use the standard 500 servos. Is that ok?

I wanna use the Align 4 blade head, and a tail set with 4 blades too (CNCHelicopter). As such, what motor and ESC do I need? What blade sizes do I use?

As for the gyro, is MicroBeast BeastX the one to get?

And should this build be a 6 cell or 12 cell battery pack?

Thanks for your help in advance. Every night I read this section and learn a lot about scale heli building. The more I see, the more I want.

Thanks again.
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:09 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I have a Apache 450 size. i need to lower my motor kv and use 3s lipo series. it is really a tail so 2x 3s battery on front will solve the cg. yes you can use your standard servo's.

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Old 10-26-2013, 04:44 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 808terry View Post
Hi All,

I bought a good used HeliArtist kit from a fellow HF member. It's just the body and frame. I'm relatively new to RC heli's, as such, I suck at flying. I've always like helicopters and fly in them when I can. RC heli's are cool, but, scale is even cooler.

Anyways, I was hoping for a kit that had everything selected where I would just put it together. This was not the case. As such, I need your help please. I'm not sure what is right, wrong, good, or bad. Here's my plan...

The kit appears to be an Align 500 frame. It has an elevated tail section that makes it back heavy. Tail blades are on the right side, but, I wanna change that to the left side; however, the servo linkage/pitch thingy seems to be a problem for that. Where can I find that piece?

I don't know if there is an off-the-shelf linkage for a left side tail. There was a thread about this a while ago.

I'm gonna use the standard 500 servos. Is that ok? Should be

I wanna use the Align 4 blade head, and a tail set with 4 blades too (CNCHelicopter). As such, what motor and ESC do I need? Depends on the headspeed you want. Read recent thread - a Savox 1200kV. CC Edge 75 ? What blade sizes do I use? Main - 425mm to 465mm - whatever fits Tail - at least 70mm, longer if you need more tail authority at low headspeed.

As for the gyro, is MicroBeast BeastX the one to get? If your head is plug & play, then it should work, if not, then get a FBL that you can adjust phasing with (I think MB could with some versions).

And should this build be a 6 cell or 12 cell battery pack? Not too many 12s 500s around You might start a trend

Thanks for your help in advance. Every night I read this section (obviously not enough ) and learn a lot about scale heli building. The more I see, the more I want.

Thanks again.

You will most (if not all of your questions answered by reading a few of the other 500 sized build threads here. There was a 500 4-blade within the last week.

Step 1 - don't do it .......until you are confident to fly in all orientations and seldom crash when flying scale-like circuits.
Step 2 - read, read and read some more. You will get better response if it is clear that you have taken the time to read similar threads.

Colin
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Old 10-26-2013, 03:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks for the response.

Lightfighter363, that's a very nice looking Apache; you put a lot of hours on that project. I've seen it on another thread here. Perhaps I should have done a 450 size scale instead. I've jumped on this project because of opportunity. Always wanted one, just hope I made a good decision. Someone commented in your thread that the kit is ok and that he/she gave good pointers to make it better. I will do those modifications on my project.

Andy01, thanks for advice. I've been looking specifically for Apache topics, but, I guess any 500 scale is appropriate.

I'm not certain on head speed. I've been trying to understand the talk here. I thought one wanted enough for lift. But, it seems to be more about scale flying. I don't even know what my blades are spinning at on my 250 and 450. I just been following them Finless Bob videos in setting up my helis. So, it's been pitch curves and throttle curves only.

Terry
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Old 10-27-2013, 12:56 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 808terry View Post
Thanks for the response.

Lightfighter363, that's a very nice looking Apache; you put a lot of hours on that project. I've seen it on another thread here. Perhaps I should have done a 450 size scale instead. I've jumped on this project because of opportunity. Always wanted one, just hope I made a good decision. Someone commented in your thread that the kit is ok and that he/she gave good pointers to make it better. I will do those modifications on my project.


Terry
Stick with the 500 size or bigger. It is really hard to work on 450 size scale.
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Old 10-27-2013, 04:47 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I agree %100 with Andy01!

"Step 1 - don't do it .......until you are confident to fly in all orientations and seldom crash when flying scale-like circuits."

The Apache is a very advanced scale fuselage kit, for a beginner.
It is also one of the more expensive 500 size fuselage kits!
The mono color scheme of the Apache is very difficult for orientation,
that is how a very advanced pilot, like me, crashed my 450 size Apache!


The kit appears to be an Align 500 frame. It has an elevated tail section that makes it back heavy. Tail blades are on the right side, but, I wanna change that to the left side; however, the servo linkage/pitch thingy seems to be a problem for that. Where can I find that piece?

You'll need to use Sullivan Cable Semi-Flex Gold-N-Rod, 2-56 Thread Size, to control the tail.
The gears, in the Align elevated tail assembly, cannot handle a 4 blade tail.
The gears will strip under the load of the multiblade tail.

You will need to use the HeliArtist elevated tail assembly!
It has beefier gears.

I'm gonna use the standard 500 servos. Is that ok?

Yes, you can use the standard 500 servos.

I wanna use the Align 4 blade head, and a tail set with 4 blades too (CNCHelicopter). As such, what motor and ESC do I need? What blade sizes do I use?

The Align 4 blade head will work great. It has built in phasing, so your choice of FBL controller is easier.

The Hyperion 1210kv w/12T pinion, and the Castle Creations Talon 90 or Ice 100 is a great choice. I prefer the Ice 100, so that I can monitor the logs!

I highly recommend using thin cord Carbon Fiber scale rotor blades and not the standard or wide cord main rotor blades. The plastic composite thin cord scale rotor blades will work too, but are sometimes hit or miss.

As for the gyro, is MicroBeast BeastX the one to get?

The MicroBeasst BeastX is an excellent choice for a scale model.
I like to mount it on the side frame and forward, for easy access.
Using the Align 4 blade rotor head, no electronic phasing is required.

And should this build be a 6 cell or 12 cell battery pack?

Use a 6S-3300mAh pack, for the previously mentioned Motor and ESC.
Using thin cord scale rotor blades and a head speed at or around 1700 rpm,
will get you about 7-8 minute flight times.
All of your electronics will run cool, and should feel slightly warmer than ambient after the flight.


Sullivan Cable 2-56


Mounting the BeastX


Align vs. HeliArtist Elevated Tail Assembly
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:58 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Thanks BlackTitanium. The advice and pictures will certainly help me out. Sorry to hear about your crash and thanks for sharing. I guess they are painted that color to blend in with surroundings so enemies can't see them. But, in RC, these helis need to be seen by the pilot. Hmmm??? What will I do? I've seen a couple other countries Apache helicopters which are not the green base color. Heck, every flying place here have fields of greenery, eg. grass and trees in background, year round.

My tail section is belt driven. Must be an old kit. I'll look into HeliArtist gear/torque tube version and if there are any upgrades items for this kit.

I'll keep with the 6 cell battery pack and look into the motors and ESCs mentioned. Staying with the 6 cell setup will keep cost down.

Thanks again.
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Old 11-18-2013, 11:42 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Hi to add my 2 pence worth
I'm in the process of building a 500 size Apache I agree with BlackTitanium re the BestX I tried an align 3gx and the BeastX the BeastX works much better with a 4 blade head.

This is a picture of the snake for the tail rotor and mine is the belt driven type.


Stuart.
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