Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > Scale Helicopters > Heads and Rotor Blades


Heads and Rotor Blades Heads and Rotor Blades Discussion


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-20-2016, 09:28 AM   #1 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,346
 

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Little Neck, NY
Default Any experience with Align 3-blade heads?

Does anybody have experience with the 3-bladed Align head (550/600 or 700 size) for scale applications? It's certainly a high quality head, since it's from a major manufacturer, but on the other hand it seems to be a DFC design which likes high head speeds. The dampeners can probably be changed to softer ones, which may help with the head speed. I'm also curious how tall this head sits, since typical DFC heads sit low and therefore would not be suitable for most scale applications.
Any thoughts?
getsuyoubi is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-20-2016, 12:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
HF Scale Support
 
Posts: 4,021
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Default

The main feature of that head is the dampening action created by the flapping head design. You can make it work for a taller main shaft by using the older style swash driver and longer pitch links but you will need to source those on your own. Align certainly made drivers for models in the past so I am sure you can find them through a dealer or at swap meets. When you do change the links, go with turnbuckle links matched to the length you need and you will find your adjustments will be able to get that tracking locked in perfect. Good luck.

Don
Keyrigger is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-20-2016, 03:29 PM   #3 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,346
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Little Neck, NY
Default

Thanks Don!
I'm not sure I'm following, though. My current 2-bladed head has a separate swash driver, so I guess your suggestion is to use that one - correct? Is there any reason why I cannot use the driver that comes with the 3-bladed head, and use longer linkages from the servos to the swash?

What I would like to know is the distance from the Jesus bolt to the feathering shaft, as that determines how tall the head eventually sits on a given shaft. I'm thinking of using this head on my 600CF with its 201mm long main shaft (3rd bearing), which I'm planning to install in an AS350. Any thoughts whether or not the head would end up at the right height?
getsuyoubi is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-21-2016, 11:55 AM   #4 (permalink)
HF Scale Support
 
Posts: 4,021
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Default

The main reason for going higher is to make it more scale looking. If you raise the swash along with the head, it will look a bit strange. Also, the swash anti-rotation guide will now be too short in most cases. If the guide is via the elevator linkage, again, it will be a bear to get it high enough to work. The pitch links are the easiest things to extend as there are so many out there to do the job. Trust me on this one, keep the swash as low as you can (most should be inside the doghouse when setup), get a decent driver, and look for links from Hangar 9, Secraft, or Lunsford Racing. Hope this helps.

Don

PS> Check into the long shaft from RC Aerodyne if you are doing a Jet Ranger. In most cases, the standard Align 600E shaft should do the job for the AS350. Lastly, I didn't check the shaft requirements of the three blade head. Hopefully, it matches your chassis. Good luck.
Keyrigger is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-21-2016, 12:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,346
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Little Neck, NY
Default

Thanks again!
The 3-bladed head comes with its dedicated shaft. Apparently it uses TWO Jesus bolts:
http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t8.../?p=6613371#RR
According to that thread it seems to sit rather low even on a 600 nitro shaft, since the blade grips end up just above the anti-rotation bracket. I would love to get some real measurements, though, but it seems that head is too low for an AS350.
I just looked at some drawings of an AS350. In 600 size the rotor (=feathering shaft center) sits about 16.5cm above the tail boom center. On the TREX 600CF that distance is about 19.5cm according to the drawing in the manual, which shows the flybar head, of course (I'm on my luch break at work and therefore can't measure on my heli). So, the rotor plane should be about 3cm lower than on a flybarred 600CF, which may actually turn out right with that Align head. If I look at that same drawing in the manual, the (flybarred) rotor plane is about 3.5cm above where the grips would barely clear the anti-rotation bracket.
Does this sound reasonable to you? I have to admit that I'm actually surprised that it seems to work out...!
getsuyoubi is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-22-2016, 02:24 AM   #6 (permalink)
HF Scale Support
 
Posts: 4,021
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Default

When I did my AS350, I used the Nitro shaft and a short head from Century. It put the head about perfect so this head, even with the two holes, should do the job. Drill the second hole if you need it but in my opinion, one should do the job as you are not rotating the head at 3D speeds and you are not stressing it anywhere near as much. Trim the shaft, if needed, so the upper hole in the head lines up with the hole in the main shaft. You should be good to go for the rest with stock parts. Go to the build thread I did and you will see how it can turn out with a 600EFL Pro, Nitro shaft, Century head, and Hangar 9 turnbuckles. Good luck.

Don
Keyrigger is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-22-2016, 08:03 AM   #7 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,346
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Little Neck, NY
Default

Thanks Don!
Of course I already read your build thread on the AS350, as well as the one on your ill-fated Jet Ranger. There are always so many great ideas in these threads, they're just amazing!
So I'll go with the Align head then. For whatever reason I cannot find them at any US retailers so far, just a few on eBay coming from Asia.
getsuyoubi is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-25-2016, 12:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,346
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Little Neck, NY
Default

I took some measurements this morning, and also got the distance from the upper Jesus bolt to the feathering shaft center on the 3-bladed Align head from a fellow on scalerchelis.com. It turns out that the rotor plane would end up 16.5cm above the tail boom center with that head and the 201mm long main shaft.
Does that sound about right? I think I read somewhere that you sold your AS350, but I hope you remember the number.

Thanks!
getsuyoubi is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-25-2016, 08:11 PM   #9 (permalink)
HF Scale Support
 
Posts: 4,021
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Default

I sold the body only and still have the mechanics. Remember that the 201mm shaft is not any taller above the frame than the shorter ones of the 600ESP. The mechanics will be going into a 700 size Jet Ranger body so I will be using my own tall main shaft. Take care.

Don
Keyrigger is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-25-2016, 08:35 PM   #10 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,346
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Little Neck, NY
Default

Yes, that's true, the 201mm shaft is longer at the bottom because of the 3rd bearing block, not taller than the 191mm shaft. I only mentioned that length in contrast to all those truly short DFC shafts which are 177mm or so.
Where do you get longer main shafts, in case I need one? The only place I know of is RCAerodyne, but a friend of mine who used one a couple of years ago said they're not hardened and bend rather easily.
getsuyoubi is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-26-2016, 12:45 AM   #11 (permalink)
HF Scale Support
 
Posts: 4,021
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Default

Mine is also not hardened so it would suffer the same fate as the RCA long shaft. Theirs is longer than mine and I am finding that I might need one even longer but the limited amount of material I have plus the cost of a small production run makes the individual well over 60 dollars. I am hoping that the one I have will do the job and allow me one or two spares. You will find that the long ESP shaft will do the job for your AS350 as that was the one I used in mine. Until you get one in, don't overthink it or get yourself worked up to a frazzle about the dimensions. If you follow my build, you will be good to go.

Don
Keyrigger is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-26-2016, 07:13 PM   #12 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,346
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Little Neck, NY
Default

Yes, you're right, I should be OK. I got a couple measurements from other members, and it turns out that it may at most end up 5mm too low. I can live with that.
Thanks!
getsuyoubi is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-02-2017, 11:19 PM   #13 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 504
 

Join Date: Feb 2013
Default

my friend had been doing some thrust testing of the 3 blade head on a CHP. Now I wanted to do the real test and put it on my AP ship to see what a 3 blade "feels" like vs a 2.

The AR bracket on the AP ship sits higher and I'm a no go at the moment. I can lower the AR bracket by hand drilling which I don't want to do, or drill the taller old shaft I had which uses 1 jesus bolt and 2 threaded.

I wonder if you using a taller shaft matters? I prefer it being higher and not dangerously close to the gimbal etc.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	17757980_10155293209134701_1806948012_n.jpg
Views:	178
Size:	56.4 KB
ID:	701489   Click image for larger version

Name:	17760616_10155293209354701_1402878687_n.jpg
Views:	166
Size:	37.2 KB
ID:	701490  
__________________
Risen Aerials - Film and TV Production Specialist
https://www.risenaerials.com
Mapoff is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-04-2017, 01:28 PM   #14 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,346
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Little Neck, NY
Default

Mine is the old 600E, and there is no such problem. However, I sort of lift the head by 8mm or so by sliding the removable collar from the original main shaft between the machined collar on the 3-blade shaft and the upper main bearing. This was necessary anyway because the distance between the bolt for the main gear (the lower Jesus bolt, if you wish) and that machined collar would have been too long for my heli:
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...=769300&page=3
getsuyoubi is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-04-2017, 05:58 PM   #15 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 504
 

Join Date: Feb 2013
Lightbulb

I ended up lowering the AR bracket. Everything is fine except I need to figure out tracking. I've tried electrical tape with 2 blades and I could never see the tape. I basically kept adjusting one blade only until I saw it get better or worse. I got it close today but it seems tiny adjustments make bigger changes with the 3 blade.
__________________
Risen Aerials - Film and TV Production Specialist
https://www.risenaerials.com
Mapoff is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-04-2017, 09:54 PM   #16 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,346
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Little Neck, NY
Default

I adjusted my turnbuckles to a tenth of a millimeter, and tracking was perfect. I probably just got lucky...
getsuyoubi is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-04-2017, 10:32 PM   #17 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 504
 

Join Date: Feb 2013
Default

I'm only running 1200 as a start. I think today the headspeed was so slow that the blades didn't find their happy place at center. Today when I got home I put red tape on the one blade I figured was out and I couldn't notice any problems but at lunch at that time the whole frame was shaking. I get to play more Thur. Tomorrow is nasty rain again.

I haven't put the tri tail on. Let me tell you.......it's a must. 3 blades, 1200 rpm, 30lbs all up weight, no way. It almost did a full 360 when I barely touched the rudder.
__________________
Risen Aerials - Film and TV Production Specialist
https://www.risenaerials.com
Mapoff is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-05-2017, 04:51 AM   #18 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 4,228
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Default

Since I got a digital pitch gauge, I have never had to adjust tracking at the field - just set the pitch on each blade to be within 0.2 and it tracks perfectly - doesn't matter whether it is a two blade 500 or a 4 blade 820mm.

Colin
__________________
Vario Long Ranger 700e
Seahawk 600
UH-1N 500
Baumann EC-145 800+ (coming soon )
Andy01 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-05-2017, 09:24 AM   #19 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 504
 

Join Date: Feb 2013
Default

I did that. That does get you close but only for static tracking. I do aerial video so I want it as close as possible. I've noticed that it will be close when I do that but once in the air it's noticeable. I use turnbuckles and would just adjust one blade tiny 1/8 turns at a time on just one marked blade. Once I get the tritail on where I can actually fly it I'll do more testing.
__________________
Risen Aerials - Film and TV Production Specialist
https://www.risenaerials.com
Mapoff is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-06-2017, 05:10 AM   #20 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 4,228
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Default

I am not sure how I would do "static tracking". I was referring to tracking whilst in a hover - always been spot on.

Colin
__________________
Vario Long Ranger 700e
Seahawk 600
UH-1N 500
Baumann EC-145 800+ (coming soon )
Andy01 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply




Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the HeliFreak forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your REAL and WORKING email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Use a real email address or you will not be granted access to the site. Thank you.
Email Address:
Location
Where do you live? ie: Country, State, City or General Geographic Location please.
Name and Lastname
Enter name and last name here. (This information is not shown to the general public. Optional)
Helicopter #1
Enter Helicopter #1 type and equipment.
Helicopter #2
Enter Helicopter #2 type and equipment.
Helicopter #3
Enter Helicopter #3 type and equipment.
Helicopter #4
Enter Helicopter #4 type and equipment.

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright © Website Acquisitions Inc. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1