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Blade 700X Blade 700X Helicopters Information and Help


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Old 12-31-2013, 07:10 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default TT Gears Stripped mid flight?!

On my 8th flight on my 700X doing minor piroflips, I heard a noise in the air, and lost control of the tail. This caused the heli to spin out and smash into the ground. After inspecting the heli, post-crash, nothing looked mechanically out of place except for the stripped bevel gears on the tail. I'm running the James Haley 700X CC settings. I spooled the heli after the crash on a bench with no blades. There are no vibrations in the head or tail, and all appears fine.

Luckily no one was hurt except the heli -- lost my blades, canopy, landing gear, bevel gears, servos gears, anti rotation bracket, and boom brace; It could have been much worse with how it came down.

I've already ordered replacement parts (about $250 in damage), and expect to have the heli up and running again this weekend.

So I'm not sure why or how this happened, I'm running the default governor gain from the James Haley setup file. Anyone care to chime in with things to check before I re-maiden again this weekend? If this were to happen a second time this weekend, I'd be very discouraged.

Thanks!
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:36 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default TT Gears Stripped mid flight?!

Make sure you have no slop/backlash in the tail gears. If you do, shim it. (This is true for any TT Heli.) This is almost certainly the issue. But some other suggestions:

I would discourage using anyone's gains for anything. Set them to whatever the manual suggests for first flight and walk them up yourself.

Also, consider using a shorter servo horn on the tail. I had better results with the shorter horn. My general advice for a tail horn for any model is use the shortest horn you can to get full range of servo travel for the most resolution. Lengthen it if your FBL unit gives ranges for travel or some other feedback for lengthening or shortening. In my own opinion the captured ball style is annoying for a tail horn because you generally want adjustability and ease of disassembly. It's cool to have it as an option but I definitely prefer the traditional horn style on the tail just to make it easy to take the tail off.

Sorry about the crash. If it makes you feel any better I had to learn two things the hard way on the 700x (my first TT heli in a long time - I had one before but I wasn't flying at all aggressively 2 years ago). The first was always check and shim TT gears. The second was to always disable castle current limiting. Other than that it's been flawless.
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:37 PM   #3 (permalink)
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How was the backlash and alignment of your bevel gears. I just got done building mine and the alignment and backlash was not to my liking. too much backlash and alignment was off. I went and bought and made some shims to get it perfect. Also I am going to set the tail stop on my flybarless controller so that I do not get to harsh of a tail stop.
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks Greg/aclysma. Is it possible my mesh was too tight? There is very little play on the tail gears. The alignment looked fine, though I'm no expert. It looks very close to my rock-solid 550x's mesh/alignment. Maybe I'll drive back to Ontario before my next maiden to have the pros give it a once over.

Thanks again guys! Glad to have a support group
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:14 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default TT Gears Stripped mid flight?!

I shim until there is no play at all in the gears.
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Old 12-31-2013, 11:01 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I shim until there is no play at all in the gears.

I have play in my tail gears, but it feels more like I have play in the TT rather than the gears itself.
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Old 01-01-2014, 01:24 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I have play in my tail gears, but it feels more like I have play in the TT rather than the gears itself.
The play I'm referring to is the ability to move the gear a fraction of a mm in and out of the tail case, boom block, etc. There will definitely be play in the drivetrain between the head and the tail.
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Old 01-01-2014, 02:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
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...

Also, consider using a shorter servo horn on the tail. I had better results with the shorter horn. My general advice for a tail horn for any model is use the shortest horn you can to get full range of servo travel for the most resolution. ...
+1 on this. I used the same horn as per the 550X and have it on the second hole. Centre to ball link is something like 12mm (off the top of my head). Without this, the Vortex VX1n flybarless unit was really unhappy.

With the shorter horn, my tail lock was completely transformed! Without it, I suffered from bad tail wag unless I used overtly low tail gains ...
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Old 01-01-2014, 07:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I'm on my third pair of tt gears, I guess the gears don't like my flying lol
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Old 01-01-2014, 08:38 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I'm on my third pair of tt gears, I guess the gears don't like my flying lol
Not what I wanted to read. :-( Did you shim, and have you configured your FBL system to soften the stops as much as possible? If you are heavy on the reversals, this can help prevent a lot of TT failures.

When you had the tail gear failures, did you loose a single tooth at a time, or have a total gear failure?

Guys, if shimming is required on this model, it should be a step in the manual. I looked and didn't see it. Did I miss it? Are shims included? Guys walking into a hobby shop to buy a 700x won't know anything about shimming. This has never been needed on Align, Synergy, Rush and other models I've owned. The TT x50e did specifically call out shimming in the manual though. Definitely not something that is general knowledge for any TT model.
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Old 01-01-2014, 09:17 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Guys, if shimming is required on this model, it should be a step in the manual. I looked and didn't see it. Did I miss it? Are shims included? Guys walking into a hobby shop to buy a 700x won't know anything about shimming. This has never been needed on Align, Synergy, Rush and other models I've owned. The TT x50e did specifically call out shimming in the manual though. Definitely not something that is general knowledge for any TT model.
That's my thought, it should be a step in the manual. I spent a whole evening shimming and getting it just right.
I searched and ordered all the shims I needed from Ebay.
Also maybe they should include a variety of shims with the kit.

12mm, 6mm, 5mm, ID.
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Old 01-02-2014, 03:50 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Guys, I really think the tail horn is a big part of the problem with many people's setup. I've watched a few videos of the 700x on youtube, and quite a few have a "chirruping" sound to them. Mine did too initially (I'll post a link in a second to a vid), but that all changed when I changed the servo horn, and made the centre-to-ball link MUCH LESS.

OK, I using a VX1n rather than an AR7200BX, which may be less fussy - but I'm not convinced. I honestly think the stock horn that comes with the kit is just too long. Certainly for the a Vortex setup, the stock horn couldn't give anywhere near enough resolution on the tail.
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Old 01-02-2014, 03:52 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Default TT Gears Stripped mid flight?!

Here's mine now. This gives fantastic tail hold with "normal" gain values and NO CHIRRUPING!

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Old 01-02-2014, 12:12 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Not what I wanted to read. :-( Did you shim, and have you configured your FBL system to soften the stops as much as possible? If you are heavy on the reversals, this can help prevent a lot of TT failures.
<...snip...>
Guys walking into a hobby shop to buy a 700x won't know anything about shimming. This has never been needed on Align, Synergy, Rush and other models I've owned. The TT x50e did specifically call out shimming in the manual though. Definitely not something that is general knowledge for any TT model.
Walking into a hobby shop to buy a 700 sized machine??? I'd hope they would know something.
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Old 01-02-2014, 04:25 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Walking into a hobby shop to buy a 700 sized machine??? I'd hope they would know something.
+1 "Guys walking into a hobby shop to buy a 700x" should absolutely know about how to build a model safely, should know about shimming, about threadlock, about blade tracking, about flybarless configuration etc. etc. etc.

Anybody who thinks they can just follow the manual on a 700 class shouldn't be going anywhere near one ..
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Old 01-02-2014, 05:43 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Not what I wanted to read. :-( Did you shim, and have you configured your FBL system to soften the stops as much as possible? If you are heavy on the reversals, this can help prevent a lot of TT failures.

When you had the tail gear failures, did you loose a single tooth at a time, or have a total gear failure?

Guys, if shimming is required on this model, it should be a step in the manual. I looked and didn't see it. Did I miss it? Are shims included? Guys walking into a hobby shop to buy a 700x won't know anything about shimming. This has never been needed on Align, Synergy, Rush and other models I've owned. The TT x50e did specifically call out shimming in the manual though. Definitely not something that is general knowledge for any TT model.
I glued the plastic tube that goes between the bearings on the gears in place to adjust the gearmesh. Gearmesh was pretty good when I flew it.

No, I did not soften the stops, I don't like soft stops at all..

my gears have never stripped completely, I changed them out when they started to sound funky. All the teeth on the front tt gear are deformed when I get the funky sound.

I have talked to James and he told me that Blade is working on a fix as we speak
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Old 01-02-2014, 06:39 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Let me just jump in on this, I know many have been shimming, but even non-shimmed it should not strip in 8 flights. I have tested the tail gears extensively with shims and no shims and with a proper tail and governor setup, the tail gears should not strip, especially with only 8 flights. I have seen really bad wag damage a TT gears during maiden, that could be the case?

Phishbot, If you are planning a trip back to socal, I can meet up with you and go through your heli.
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Old 01-02-2014, 06:51 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Let me just jump in on this, I know many have been shimming, but even non-shimmed it should not strip in 8 flights. I have tested the tail gears extensively with shims and no shims and with a proper tail and governor setup, the tail gears should not strip, especially with only 8 flights. I have seen really bad wag damage a TT gears during maiden, that could be the case?

Phishbot, If you are planning a trip back to socal, I can meet up with you and go through your heli.
Edsel, from what I've heard there have been some manufacturing tolerance issues on the boomblock. That explains why some are having the issue and some don't.
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Old 01-02-2014, 07:03 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I glued the plastic tube that goes between the bearings on the gears in place to adjust the gearmesh. Gearmesh was pretty good when I flew it.

No, I did not soften the stops, I don't like soft stops at all..

my gears have never stripped completely, I changed them out when they started to sound funky. All the teeth on the front tt gear are deformed when I get the funky sound.

I have talked to James and he told me that Blade is working on a fix as we speak
Hate to say it, but if you love hard stops that "bark" you are in for some spectacular failures. You can get stops solid and "quiet" without making them soupy and slow. There is a balance with the stop dynamics. Sounds like your tail stops are too aggressive to be sustainable on this particular TT model. I too like the maneuvers where I piro flip and continuously step the tail (Brandenberg/Kettlehut style). The maneuver is the most fun when the tail is loud and barks. But this is best left for the belt heli unless you have a tail gear that's extremely beefy.

You are lucky that the 700x gives you warnings. Most just strip clean and you get to a nice piro flipping auto save assuming you have a few feet to work with. Sounds like a decent material though that isn't overly brittle.
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Old 01-02-2014, 07:19 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Hate to say it, but if you love hard stops that "bark" you are in for some spectacular failures. You can get stops solid and "quiet" without making them soupy and slow. There is a balance with the stop dynamics. Sounds like your tail stops are too aggressive to be sustainable on this particular TT model. I too like the maneuvers where I piro flip and continuously step the tail (Brandenberg/Kettlehut style). The maneuver is the most fun when the tail is loud and barks. But this is best left for the belt heli unless you have a tail gear that's extremely beefy.

You are lucky that the 700x gives you warnings. Most just strip clean and you get to a nice piro flipping auto save assuming you have a few feet to work with. Sounds like a decent material though that isn't overly brittle.
Lol I know what I'm doing with my settings dude, I have been competing at a high level for some time now, no room for 'bad' settings. I NEED those hard stops to be sustainable, I don't like them for the 'bark' or anything, they are just necessary for my flying. I have never had a single issue with tail gears stripping on any model, not even on my aligns... This is not a fault on my part, Blade has aknowledged the issue. I agree with you though that the gears are of a decent material
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