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130X Blade 130X Helicopters Information and Help


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Old 03-28-2014, 03:09 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I've finally finished putting mine together, here's some pics of the finished build.

and here's a short video of my first test hover in my bedroom.

130X with GY280 (1 min 46 sec)


This is only my first flight with this unit and it looks to be promising so far, hopefully I'll have some time this weekend to tweak it. The controls feels very similar to my other 130X with mini vbar in it.
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Old 03-28-2014, 05:30 AM   #22 (permalink)
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This looks really nice man!
Can you post a video with some real flying? Maybe some tic-tocs?

I'm thinking of doing such a build myself if it works out good.
What tail boom construction do you use?
Is the GY as good as the vstabi itself?

Best regards,

MrTal
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:08 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTal View Post
This looks really nice man!
Can you post a video with some real flying? Maybe some tic-tocs?

I'm thinking of doing such a build myself if it works out good.
What tail boom construction do you use?
Is the GY as good as the vstabi itself?

Best regards,

MrTal
Thanks, so far the controls feels very similar to vstabi, but thats only from one short flight, I'll do my comparison once I have tuned it and have enough test flight from it. At this point the only thing I can say is that the programming using either my phone or pc is no different compared to vstabi itself. 👍
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:17 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Super clean build fabian! Looks great, hovers great, should be a winner . I really like how you hid the ESC. I was originally looking install mine something like that but ended up just keeping it easy and stuck it on the side, yours makes me wish I had stuck with my plan.
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:37 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Hello again...

what's the weight of your setup?

Do you have any plans to stretch to 150x and/or go 3s?

I've got a tuned mcpx BL stretched to 130x size with 95g and a hp08 motor. It has lots of power, but i don't like the 3in1 and the linear servos. It has a motor tail.

Would like to know it the 130x tail is any good when tuned.

How would you describe the difference between the 130x 3in1 and your machine flying with the vstabi?


Cya,

MrTal
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Old 03-28-2014, 12:45 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wsntme View Post
Super clean build fabian! Looks great, hovers great, should be a winner . I really like how you hid the ESC. I was originally looking install mine something like that but ended up just keeping it easy and stuck it on the side, yours makes me wish I had stuck with my plan.
Thanks Kevin, it needs some more tweaking but it looks to be promising so far, I just saw your videos looks like you've got yours closed to being completely tuned.

One of your video you've mentioned that sometimes the ESC sounds faint and sometimes it doesn't I had similar issue before and it turned out to be a high spot on the main gear, when the high spot lines up with the pinion, you no longer have the backlash in between the pinion and the main gear, therefore not allowing the motor to fully move during arming resulting in a faint sound. Do a quick test disengaged the motor from main gear and initialize your ESC, if you still notice the same issue then it might be your motor or ESC.

Sorry to hear about your little mishap, just when you think you've got everything figured out, it turns around and punches you in the face or at least that's how I feel when this type of mishap happens to me.

On side note, you can always change your components layout to your preference.
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Old 03-28-2014, 01:19 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MrTal View Post
Hello again...

what's the weight of your setup?

Do you have any plans to stretch to 150x and/or go 3s?

I've got a tuned mcpx BL stretched to 130x size with 95g and a hp08 motor. It has lots of power, but i don't like the 3in1 and the linear servos. It has a motor tail.

Would like to know it the 130x tail is any good when tuned.

How would you describe the difference between the 130x 3in1 and your machine flying with the vstabi?


Cya,

MrTal
It weights 102 grams without battery or canopy.

My tail boom is already stretch and the only thing it needs is the longer main blades.

No plans on doing 3S for the time being.

I also own a full blown brushless MCPX, stretched out. I can tell you from experience that my decked out brushless MCPX does not even comes close to my 130X's, granted this may not be a fair comparison because I'm comparing the MCPX stock 3n1 to a mini vstabi and this new GY280 seems to be very comparable with my other 130X equipped with the mini vstabi, Once I get enought flight/testing with this GY280, I can probably then make an educated comparison between the two.
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:21 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by fabian1675 View Post
....
One of your video you've mentioned that sometimes the ESC sounds faint and sometimes it doesn't I had similar issue before and it turned out to be a high spot on the main gear, when the high spot lines up with the pinion, you no longer have the backlash in between the pinion and the main gear, therefore not allowing the motor to fully move during arming resulting in a faint sound. Do a quick test disengaged the motor from main gear and initialize your ESC, if you still notice the same issue then it might be your motor or ESC.

...
Thanks for the insight Fabian. This makes perfect sense since it is the motor that actually makes the tones.
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:51 PM   #29 (permalink)
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"No plans on doing 3S for the time being."

Can you explain why this is not interesting for you?


"I also own a full blown brushless MCPX, stretched out. I can tell you from experience that my decked out brushless MCPX does not even comes close to my 130X's, granted this may not be a fair comparison because I'm comparing the MCPX stock 3n1 to a mini vstabi and this new GY280 seems to be very comparable with my other 130X equipped with the mini vstabi, "

Ok this is interesting for me because i don't have the chance to fly a 130x.
Does the 130x per se fly so much better or is it mostly because of the vstabi?
And in which way does it fly better? I'm really interested in this!

Happy flying!
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Old 03-29-2014, 12:32 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTal View Post
"No plans on doing 3S for the time being."

Can you explain why this is not interesting for you?

Ok this is interesting for me because i don't have the chance to fly a 130x.

Does the 130x per se fly so much better or is it mostly because of the vstabi?

And in which way does it fly better? I'm really interested in this!

Happy flying!
Other than I'm o.k. with 2S set-up, No I can't explain why 3S is not interesting for right now.

From my experience 130X flew better in stock form compared to my MCPX. But the 130X 3in1 also has it's unwanted tendencies. Replacing the stock 3in1 with mini vstabi eliminated all those unwanted tendencies and it makes the 130X a lot more precise, predictable and I no longer have to keep fighting it just to keep it in place.

I guess I can compare it to having an align 3G and mikado mini vbar, there's just no comparison
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Old 03-29-2014, 01:03 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I was able to get some more testing done today, I noticed two things that needs my attention:

1) Tail wag I had to drop my tail gain down to 30 just to stop it from wagging
2) Head wobble just like what everyone else is experiencing, I also have to drop the cyclic gain down to 30 with this value it stopped majority of the wobble but not completely gone.

I found those gain values to be unacceptable so I did something about:

Tail problem was an easy fixed I moved the ball from 7mm to 5mm. This allowed me to increase my gain value to 40 without the wag.

Head wobble this took a little bit of experimentation. First thing I noticed when I was looking into this issue was the head assembly was very rigid it offered very little compliance. Took the stock dampeners out and tried the lynx dampeners not only that this did not perform any better but it also caused my blade grips to bind. I found some vitone o-rings in my parts bin that's about the same size o.d. and i.d. but not as thick, to compensate for the thickness I added .3mm shims on each side to take up the slop, with this combo I now have the compliance I was looking for, test flight confirmed my suspicion that head assembly was just too rigid. Head wobble completely gone and I was able to increase cyclic gain to 55.
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Old 03-29-2014, 01:19 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Excuse my ignorance but why are the lower gain values unacceptable? With my current settings im at 35 at the cyclic gain and 36 on the rudder. I ended up putting my pushrod for the tail servo as close to the center of the horn as possible without causing the cup to bind on the horn-screw head (~4.5mm) My travel is good at 92% CCW and CW but I still cannot get the gain any higher. I have no complaints with my tail holding ATM though. My thought was that if a 250 should be around 40, then it only makes sense my gain should be lower....right?

I got my build put back together so I'll get to do some more testing tomorrow as long as it's not too windy. Maybe I'll make the trip and do my testing over grass LOL.
I changed up my swashplate numbers a bit in hopes that it will eliminate my last bit of head bobble. Originally I was
90/320/220
100/124/124

Now it's
90/320/220
80/100/100

My thought is that keeping my range under 100% may help with the control loops....not sure but worth a shot!
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Old 03-29-2014, 02:44 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wsntme View Post
Excuse my ignorance but why are the lower gain values unacceptable? With my current settings im at 35 at the cyclic gain and 36 on the rudder. I ended up putting my pushrod for the tail servo as close to the center of the horn as possible without causing the cup to bind on the horn-screw head (~4.5mm) My travel is good at 92% CCW and CW but I still cannot get the gain any higher. I have no complaints with my tail holding ATM though. My thought was that if a 250 should be around 40, then it only makes sense my gain should be lower....right?

I got my build put back together so I'll get to do some more testing tomorrow as long as it's not too windy. Maybe I'll make the trip and do my testing over grass LOL.
I changed up my swashplate numbers a bit in hopes that it will eliminate my last bit of head bobble. Originally I was
90/320/220
100/124/124

Now it's
90/320/220
80/100/100

My thought is that keeping my range under 100% may help with the control loops....not sure but worth a shot!
Maybe unacceptable is the wrong word to use of what I'm trying to achieve which is trying to get higher gain values, those values are "unacceptable" to me because I want my gain to be closer to the middle of that window, I'm thinking with the value being closer to the middle the unit has more room to operate.

I'm curious to see if those values does help with the wobble. I have mine set at

Ch1=90
Ch2=310
Ch3=230

and I just left the distance to default =100

My swash settings for now:

Agility =90
Gain = 56
Style =42

Tail
Yaw rate=100
gain=41
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Old 03-29-2014, 03:48 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Based one those numbers, I believe the angle to be accurate for that swash plate. I measure approx 132-133 degrees on my Xtreme swash. I have crude measuring tools though. The distance is where I thought I may have an issue, and on your Xtreme swash the rear links are 21mm from center where as the front on is 17mm ....so you have 4mm diff, same as my Rakon plate. The Rakon is 140 degrees though.

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Old 03-29-2014, 09:23 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by fabian1675 View Post
Maybe unacceptable is the wrong word to use of what I'm trying to achieve which is trying to get higher gain values, those values are "unacceptable" to me because I want my gain to be closer to the middle of that window, I'm thinking with the value being closer to the middle the unit has more room to operate.

I'm curious to see if those values does help with the wobble. I have mine set at

Ch1=90
Ch2=310
Ch3=230

and I just left the distance to default =100

My swash settings for now:

Agility =90
Gain = 56
Style =42

Tail
Yaw rate=100
gain=41

I posted this awhile ago, I guess you two missed it......This is, as far as I can tell....is pretty exact based on measurements using my digital caliper. Also, Fabian, you can't use all same distance. It's quite obvious because the Aileron and Pitch connection points are further from center than the Elevator.

https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=28

note: Ch2 distance should read 130 also. I'm not sure what happened there.
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Old 03-29-2014, 10:12 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wsntme View Post
Based one those numbers, I believe the angle to be accurate for that swash plate. I measure approx 132-133 degrees on my Xtreme swash. I have crude measuring tools though. The distance is where I thought I may have an issue, and on your Xtreme swash the rear links are 21mm from center where as the front on is 17mm ....so you have 4mm diff, same as my Rakon plate. The Rakon is 140 degrees though.


That's a cool jig, you did a lot more than I did in terms of figuring out the angles, all I did was tried to figure out where to add the additional 40 deg, and when I punch in the numbers it looked similar to the swash lay-out, that's when I said alright that looked similar and close enough Thanks for sharing this info at least now I know that the angles I have is correct.
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Old 03-29-2014, 10:16 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by pmerritt View Post
I posted this awhile ago, I guess you two missed it......This is, as far as I can tell....is pretty exact based on measurements using my digital caliper. Also, Fabian, you can't use all same distance. It's quite obvious because the Aileron and Pitch connection points are further from center than the Elevator.

https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=28

note: Ch2 distance should read 130 also. I'm not sure what happened there.
Thanks, what was the ratio you've used to come with those numbers for the distance? Cuz I measured using a caliper and the numbers I came up was the same number (wasntme) came up with.
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Old 03-29-2014, 10:47 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by pmerritt View Post
I posted this awhile ago, I guess you two missed it......This is, as far as I can tell....is pretty exact based on measurements using my digital caliper. Also, Fabian, you can't use all same distance. It's quite obvious because the Aileron and Pitch connection points are further from center than the Elevator.

https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=28

note: Ch2 distance should read 130 also. I'm not sure what happened there.
Thanks, I've seen you share this info a couple times actually. Unfortunately it does not correlate with my Rakon swash, as it's 140 degress Vs 130 of the Xtreme.
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Old 03-29-2014, 10:59 AM   #39 (permalink)
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hmm, maybe it is the swash then, i used a microheli swash for my measurements. I ASSUMED that the overall ratios on all the swashes were the same despite the physical appearances but i guess not. and I have a rakon on one and an extreme on the other. didn't use the microheli swash at all.

The Microheli and Rakon overall geometry appears to be very very close to being the same (without measuring) this is holding them back to back with ea other. The Rakons distance on the aileron and pitch is just a tiny bit longer though. Btw, wsntme, try what i said.....if you have a extra rakon swash resize the picture i linked and take the elevator ball as reference and place it right against the screen. Everything lines up perfectly except for the distance on the aileron and pitch. If I make the distance just a little longer everything would match up perfectly.
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Old 03-29-2014, 11:24 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by pmerritt View Post
hmm, maybe it is the swash then, i used a microheli swash for my measurements. I ASSUMED that the overall ratios on all the swashes were the same despite the physical appearances but i guess not. and I have a rakon on one and an extreme on the other. didn't use the microheli swash at all.
Are you flying this unit or are you flying an original miniV like Fabians other bird? Do you have any flight video? I like to see how others have been able to set up their machines. I really like watching BMC76 tool around with the zyx-s.

Fabian; what are you using for bluetooth programming? I really need to order something since running inside to my PC is not terribly convenient or portable, perhaps you could point me in the right direction.
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