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Old 06-26-2014, 10:44 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by newbheliusr View Post
Well dude. Since it works. I see no problem. Perhaps you might want to take a trip to the vstabi website and see the testing they did. Now unless you want to spend $150 on BEC this is the best solution.

Besides. What is a capacitor for?


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As I've mentioned to you before....

I've seen that on the Vstabi site with regards to using a YGE ESC's SBEC.....and
something's wrong with that picture....using a Kon's SBEC, I can't duplicate those results....nor does a 4700uF aluminum electrolytic capacitor do anything.....If anything, it's a demonstration of the limitations of a YGE ESC's internal SBEC as compared with a Jive/Kos's.

We've been round and round on this....fair enough....

For me, a Jive or Kos ESC's internal SBEC(with buffer batt.) is the best all around solution....as I've tested their SBEC's extensively(among other SBECs)....and the Kontronik internal SBECs are the best I've tested...and I have data to back up this claim). But, I haven't tested a YGE....nor will I have to, as explained above.

Since you are a fan of the good old 4700 uF electrolytic cap., why just a 4700 uF cap.?......They have larger sizes in the proper voltage rating.

For instance:

http://www.tecategroup.com/ultracapacitors-supercapacitors/partfinder.php?SERIES=PBLS

Why not a 4.7 F cap, instead?.......1000x the capacitance.....

More expensive....but not anywhere near $150.....

Perhaps you can find similar caps. that are cheaper.

Just thought you should know, if you didn't already.....

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Old 06-27-2014, 02:12 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EEngineer View Post
As I've mentioned to you before....

I've seen that on the Vstabi site with regards to using a YGE ESC's SBEC.....and
something's wrong with that picture....using a Kon's SBEC, I can't duplicate those results....nor does a 4700uF aluminum electrolytic capacitor do anything.....If anything, it's a demonstration of the limitations of a YGE ESC's internal SBEC as compared with a Jive/Kos's.

We've been round and round on this....fair enough....

For me, a Jive or Kos ESC's internal SBEC(with buffer batt.) is the best all around solution....as I've tested their SBEC's extensively(among other SBECs)....and the Kontronik internal SBECs are the best I've tested...and I have data to back up this claim). But, I haven't tested a YGE....nor will I have to, as explained above.

Since you are a fan of the good old 4700 uF electrolytic cap., why just a 4700 uF cap.?......They have larger sizes in the proper voltage rating.

For instance:

http://www.tecategroup.com/ultracapacitors-supercapacitors/partfinder.php?SERIES=PBLS

Why not a 4.7 F cap, instead?.......1000x the capacitance.....

More expensive....but not anywhere near $150.....

Perhaps you can find similar caps. that are cheaper.

Just thought you should know, if you didn't already.....

FWIW

Alright. Great. Kontronik is the best. Send me one. I can't afford it and you must have deep pockets. Send me one then.

And don't tell me the cap doesn't do anything. I can prove you wrong. Unplug the cap. It browns out. Plug it in, it doesn't. and voltage doesn't drop more than half a volt.

I'll tell ya what. You do it your way. And I'll do it mine. Fair? Just please. Quit. Leave me alone.

Because I do not want to hear from you any further sir, I have added you to my ignore list. As I said, I am tired of being told I am wrong, when it works just fine. You do it your way. I'll do it mine, and I won't have to see your posts.


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Old 06-27-2014, 03:15 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by newbheliusr View Post
Alright. Great. Kontronik is the best. Send me one. I can't afford it and you must have deep pockets. Send me one then.

And don't tell me the cap doesn't do anything. I can prove you wrong. Unplug the cap. It browns out. Plug it in, it doesn't. and voltage doesn't drop more than half a volt.

I'll tell ya what. You do it your way. And I'll do it mine. Fair? Just please. Quit. Leave me alone.

Because I do not want to hear from you any further sir, I have added you to my ignore list. As I said, I am tired of being told I am wrong, when it works just fine. You do it your way. I'll do it mine, and I won't have to see your posts.


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Given your attitude, you deserve nothing.

You make it clear that if it's not your way....it's wrong.

Others are tired of your BS examples...without such data to back up your annecdotal claims....without even using tech equip. to back your claims.

That you haven't the equipment to back up your silly claims...is not my fault.

So hide your head is such sand....newb

I posted the link to help you out.....and you freak out....that's the engineering that you use.

With all due respect, I find your your PMs useless.

So please ignore me....LOL

FWIW.....
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Old 06-27-2014, 03:25 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I have read a lot of posts by EEngineer, he seems quite a knowledgable guy and I have learnt a lot from him but...

He also seems to have the attitude that if its not his way then it's wrong, there is more than one way to fix these issues, yeah sure you can throw a lot of cash at it and it will fix the problem but some folks here don't have the cash to spare so have to use the "band aid" fix.

Many people here have been doing the cheap option for years and it seems to work for them so WHY argue about it, both ways work, doesn't mean one is wrong.

To much knowledge can be a bad thing and make some people sound arrogant.

Just my personal opinion.
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Old 06-27-2014, 03:38 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I have read a lot of posts by EEngineer, he seems quite a knowledgable guy and I have learnt a lot from him but...

He also seems to have the attitude that if its not his way then it's wrong, there is more than one way to fix these issues, yeah sure you can throw a lot of cash at it and it will fix the problem but some folks here don't have the cash to spare so have to use the "band aid" fix.

Many people here have been doing the cheap option for years and it seems to work for them so WHY argue about it, both ways work, doesn't mean one is wrong.

To much knowledge can be a bad thing and make some people sound arrogant.

Just my personal opinion.
Of course.....

Keep in mind, you can only speculate when you don't have the capability to quantify your claims.

Or even use such capabilities.

"to much knowledge"......is a bad thing????........

Sounds like an excuse to.....excuse too littlle knowledge of any given subject.
And you're re-designing a MiniV....and you don't even have a Oscope....really special

Save the pettifogging.

FWIW
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Old 06-27-2014, 03:47 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnTC02 View Post
I have read a lot of posts by EEngineer, he seems quite a knowledgable guy and I have learnt a lot from him but...



He also seems to have the attitude that if its not his way then it's wrong, there is more than one way to fix these issues, yeah sure you can throw a lot of cash at it and it will fix the problem but some folks here don't have the cash to spare so have to use the "band aid" fix.



Many people here have been doing the cheap option for years and it seems to work for them so WHY argue about it, both ways work, doesn't mean one is wrong.



To much knowledge can be a bad thing and make some people sound arrogant.



Just my personal opinion.

I agree 100%. I'm personally tired of being laughed at by this guy. He likes inform you of just how smart he is, and if you disagree or have a different way. You're a fool. Well. I'm rather tired of it. This isn't the first time this guy has informed me of how stupid I am. But amazingly, my helicopters still fly. And the people I try to help are happy. I'm only here to try to help. Not tell people how smart I am.


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Old 06-27-2014, 03:47 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Back in the late 70's I served an apprenticeship as an electrician, that was a long time ago so I'll admit I have forgot a lot if what I know.

So with that in mind I'm not qualified to to preach to folks on here what is right or wrong but experience has taught me that there is more than one way to fix an issue which will result in the same outcome.

And yeah to little knowledge is also a bad thing when people start putting their views across that are obviously wrong but will argue that they are right.

That's why I don't force my opinion on anyone, I'm getting to old and senile to remember what day it is so who am I to comment.
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Old 06-27-2014, 03:51 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I don't pretend to know it all. I just know what fixed my problem and I'm just trying to pass that knowledge along.


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Old 06-27-2014, 04:04 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JohnTC02 View Post
Back in the late 70's I served an apprenticeship as an electrician, that was a long time ago so I'll admit I have forgot a lot if what I know.

So with that in mind I'm not qualified to to preach to folks on here what is right or wrong but experience has taught me that there is more than one way to fix an issue which will result in the same outcome.

And yeah to little knowledge is also a bad thing when people start putting their views across that are obviously wrong but will argue that they are right.

That's why I don't force my opinion on anyone, I'm getting to old and senile to remember what day it is so who am I to comment.
Back in the 70's, I wasn't an electrician.....

Force an opinion?.......

If you were an electrician, you certainly would use tools to ensure....to quantify that your job was done correctly....right.

So with this, you throw all that knowledge out the door....and depend upon annectodal claims....without using the tools that you once used as an electrician?

This has nothing to do with pulling ROMEX around the house...

FWIW
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Old 06-27-2014, 04:33 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Haha, oh yes back in the day our tools were somewhat limited.

I used a windup megger to test for earth leakage a scope made from tubes the size of a filing cabinet, the only chips we had came with our fish on Fridays. We had soldering irons that took three days to heat up.

Anyway, this thread is getting way off topic so I'm leaving it there.

BTW EEngineer, I do respect your comments it's just that you sometimes come across as being a bit "my way is the only way"

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Old 06-28-2014, 12:47 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Ok, so there's some history behind this. But, for someone that just bothered to read this thread, EE, what is your point, pls? Newb did try to help the OP. What are you saying is better? Adding a cap seems like a decent preventative measure, is this a bad idea for some reason?
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Old 06-28-2014, 02:16 AM   #32 (permalink)
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I have tried to help the OP. What have you done? As a matter of fact, I sent out the cap to him in the mail the other day. You have not contributed anything to this but to act like a TROLL. Just to start a fight. That's all you seem to do IMO. I at least try to help.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EEngineer View Post
Given your attitude, you deserve nothing.

You make it clear that if it's not your way....it's wrong.

Others are tired of your BS examples...without such data to back up your annecdotal claims....without even using tech equip. to back your claims.

That you haven't the equipment to back up your silly claims...is not my fault.

So hide your head is such sand....newb

I posted the link to help you out.....and you freak out....that's the engineering that you use.

With all due respect, I find your your PMs useless.

So please ignore me....LOL

FWIW.....
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Old 06-28-2014, 02:30 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Ok, so there's some history behind this. But, for someone that just bothered to read this thread, EE, what is your point, pls? Newb did try to help the OP. What are you saying is better? Adding a cap seems like a decent preventative measure, is this a bad idea for some reason?
Not at all...but when I suggested a higher value cap....soemone falsely accused me of laughing at him....the cap guy himself.

To the contrary, since one uses equipment to quantify the electronics, some people try to rationalize any effects....by speculative hyperbole....

And then denigrate....those that can make such quantitative measurements.

I won't depend on a 10 cent cap.....to bandaid an issue for an expensive heli.

Do what you want.

FWIW
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Old 06-28-2014, 02:42 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by EEngineer View Post
Not at all...but when I suggested a higher value cap....soemone falsely accused me of laughing at him....the cap guy himself.

To the contrary, since one uses equipment to quantify the electronics, some people try to rationalize any effects....by speculative hyperbole....

And then denigrate....those that can make such quantitative measurements.

I won't depend on a 10 cent cap.....to bandaid an issue for an expensive heli.

Do what you want.

FWIW
You can give an opinion without trashing a thread by going head to head with someone you don't agree with. Not the HF way
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Old 06-28-2014, 04:46 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mercuriell View Post
You can give an opinion without trashing a thread by going head to head with someone you don't agree with. Not the HF way
+1, seems like history is repeating it self...

Please agree to disagree, give your opinion and let the OP decide for himself which way to go...
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Old 06-28-2014, 11:17 AM   #36 (permalink)
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+1, seems like history is repeating it self...
Yea we are doing out best to keep that from happening.

+1 on the agree to disagree. There are going to be some people who cannot debate a subject without getting insulting parting ways with us sooner than later.
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Old 06-28-2014, 12:17 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: Mini vbar servo brown out

There are complete tests in the vbar nodes that prove caps work fine
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Old 06-28-2014, 01:41 PM   #38 (permalink)
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My apologies I got a little off track. I do that sometimes. I am sorry.


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Old 06-30-2014, 08:37 AM   #39 (permalink)
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I stopped by Rshack this weekend and picked up a few caps. 4.7,10,and 22 mF, all same size and price. Is there any reason to use a lower value cap from the group? This is simply preventative. Can anyone give me some info or link on the merits of using a cap? How many pilots are actually doing this, and should I even bother? Is it a potential source of failure some how?
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Old 06-30-2014, 08:51 AM   #40 (permalink)
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What size heli? That will likely influence what size you might want.

I started with a RadioShack one, for testing. But it was a fairly-high voltage (16V? - Edit, sorry, looks like it was 35V), which meant it was comparatively big and heavy. I ended up buying some from Digikey, IIRC, the 10V 4700uF was the same size & weight as the RadioShack 2200uF.

So I prefer a lower voltage rating (still above what you'll be using, of course), since you get more capacitance for the same size/weight. I'm using a 10V 6800uF on my 450, as a point of reference. 4700uF still gave me a brownout problem once or twice. If it were a bigger machine, I'd probably go to a bigger cap.

For some reading on the subject:
http://www.vstabi.info/en/node/1422
and
http://www.vstabi.info/en/node/1327

As to whether you need it, that depends on your setup. I'd strongly suggest doing a bench brownout test, as described in the second link. Use a mode with full-collective travel (0-100 pitch curve). Mikado suggests temporarily setting the Pitch Pump value to 100. Move the collective up/down as fast as you can for a minute. Watch for anything to start blinking, stop responding, etc. Then also check the logs and look for low-voltage warnings.

If you see any problems, then I'd say this is something you want/need to address. A suitably-sized capacitor may help. If it still doesn't, your BEC may not be able to keep up with the demands of your servos.
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