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Old 08-28-2014, 11:06 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default CC Bailout with SK GOV - how to thread!! (also for YGE and others)

Last EDIT: 09.20.14 - updated SD governor and Castle data. added castle flight log.

We have been frustrated about it for A long time - so it looks like there is a solution now!

let us start with the problem:
1. To arm both CC ESC on power-up and the CC bailout we needed two "low throttle points" for throttle output. Old SK versions didn't output lower throttle signal than the one you set with the "Set Idle Throttle" in the drive tab, therefore we had only one low point and we used it for ESC arming on power-up.

Newer versions (at least since 3.4) are outputting lower throttle than 0 - therefore it is possible to have more than 1 "low point".

2. second problem: for bailout to work we need our Throttle HOLD position to both give SK -10 in the GUI AND we want that to output the throttle signal for the CC bailout.

Well - it is that simple! I managed to do exactly that and its working swell .

I have to give credit to an article i have read by Turemini on daddy hobby site showing me the idea could work and pushed me to do the test.

I will start here and edit as we go. (your comments are important to improve it!!):

Lets start the setup:

NOTE: Those who already have their CC ESC setup with SK can skip "Stage 1". go to the next NOTE

Stage 1: First step is to set your CC ESC end points in the TX. I will NOT go threw the whole procedure to save time but will note the highlights:

**DISENGAGE YOUR MOTOR FROM YOUR MAIN GEAR BEFORE DOING ANY LIVE TESTING!!**

1. SK governor OFF
2. Tx endpoints to: High 100, LOW 87% (This is the number that worked for me with a DX9 and Castle ESC. this needs to be tested by you guys using different equipment to see if it fits all. it should give a good starting point for other ESC brands having their bailout point around +10).
3. Set SK Max and Idle throttle points in Drive System tab (I use Tx Idle2 for Max and then switch to NORMAL mode with throttle all the way down. another option is to use 0-100% linear curve).
4. Disconnect USB, make sure you enable autorotaion in CC software and then set your ESC high and low points + your bailout TH point according to CC ESC procedure (or any other ESC). For Castle - your Tx TH percent should be around 10% (mine is 9%).

NOTE: if your ESC is already setup with SK all you need to do is to set the TH BAILOUT point according to CC procedure, and continue.

Castle setup videos:
Throttle calibrtion:
Castle Quick Tip- Throttle Calibration.wmv (3 min 23 sec)


TH auto-rotation calibration:

Castle Quick Tip Auto-Rotation Throttle Calibration.wmv (8 min 0 sec)




Stage 2: And now for THE MAIN IDEA:
As written before - the goal is to get your TH position to be -10 in SK and correct throttle signal for CC bailout. well the second part is done now in previous step. now lets deal with the first:

1. Connect SK to USB and power your TX.
2. Go to Drive System Tab and set your Max Throttle point ONLY
3. engage TH and check the throttle value you get in SK GUI. if done correctly you should have (-10) or close to it. we want it on (-10)!! (or a little more) so if you don't get that we need to correct it.

How to correct??:
Lets try a simple solution (Feedback PLEASE- tell me how this works for you!!):
1. Add +10 to your TH SK GUI value. remember that number!!
2. disengage TH to NORMAL mode. you should have your normal set with a ramp (I use 0-40-40-40-40. some use 0-25-40-40-40).
3. move your throttle stick until you get the number from stage 1 in SK GUI, and then press SET IDLE THROTTLE button. Re-Engage TH - you should now have -10 (sometimes needs to be done 2-3 times).

Example: lets say my TH gave me -3. add 10 i got +7. moved Normal throttle to +7 and pressed "Set Idle Throttle"...

Last Stage:
The finish:

-Tx setting:
1. put SK governor back to Electric.
setting throttle curves:
2. Verify Tx in normal. put your throttle to minimum - you should see a value around -25 in SK GUI.
3. put throttle stick to max and change the upper value until you see "40" in SK GUI throttle (my Tx point is 44%) + the normal RPM in green. Now set your Normal "line" to that value (IE-mine is 0-44-44-44-44).
4. go to IDLE1 and change it until you have "60" in SK GUI (mine was 62%) + IDLE 1 RPM is green.
5. Set IDLE 2 to 100%.

-ESC + SK ramps setting
edited below data after some test flying (09.20.14)
I use "6" in CC Initial spool and "20" for headspeed change rate.
That + setting my LOW RAMP to 100and HIGH RAMP to 120gives me a very clean spoolup + good bailout.

Bench Testing - **DISENGAGE YOUR MOTOR FROM YOUR MAIN GEAR BEFORE DOING ANY LIVE TESTING!!**

Just do what you normally do: start in normal, go to Idle 1/2, engage TH until the motor stops and release - it worked well for me

Castle Log screen shot:

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Last edited by georgi UK; 09-20-2014 at 02:46 PM.. Reason: Omer request......
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Old 08-28-2014, 12:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
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We'll done omerco, you have done some thorough testing on this issue. I will test this setup on my Jeti Mezon's tomorrow and I will report back
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Old 08-28-2014, 12:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Ohh ye forgot to write it - this should be good also for YGE and other ESC's which need to "see" more than 0 throttle to keep from going back to Soft-Start.

Good luck guys and tell me how it goes!!
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Old 08-28-2014, 12:07 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHENRY View Post
We'll done omerco, you have done some thorough testing on this issue. I will test this setup on my Jeti Mezon's tomorrow and I will report back
Well you will be my first guinea pig give me your comments.
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Old 08-28-2014, 12:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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It's typical that I blew my mezon up today 5 mins after my last PM to you today Omerco. I accidentally set the bailout to 0.1 seconds. Luckily with no blades. It was to much of a surge for the esc and smoked it. I get my replacement at 11am tomorrow morning and hope to get the same results as you!


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Old 08-29-2014, 01:05 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHENRY View Post
It's typical that I blew my mezon up today 5 mins after my last PM to you today Omerco. I accidentally set the bailout to 0.1 seconds. Luckily with no blades. It was to much of a surge for the esc and smoked it. I get my replacement at 11am tomorrow morning and hope to get the same results as you!


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One of the Mezon reps told me just last week on the phone the esc is better suited to planks than for heli use. I was set to buy one for its logging features to install on one of my 800s, and he gently talked me into another brand.

Gonna try this on my Yge's here this weekend! Great write up.
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Old 08-29-2014, 01:08 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Luvmyhelis View Post
One of the Mezon reps told me just last week on the phone the esc is better suited to planks than for heli use. I was set to buy one for its logging features to install on one of my 800s, and he gently talked me into another brand.

Gonna try this on my Yge's here this weekend! Great write up.
Thank LMH! I'm waiting for your comments and corrections

Just updated some of the first steps procedure...
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Old 08-29-2014, 05:47 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvmyhelis View Post
One of the Mezon reps told me just last week on the phone the esc is better suited to planks than for heli use. I was set to buy one for its logging features to install on one of my 800s, and he gently talked me into another brand.

Gonna try this on my Yge's here this weekend! Great write up.
This is interesting to know. Do you remember what reasons they did not recommend them for heli use? At the minute i have a aggressive second spool up after throttle hold is enabled. I will give it to the end of the year waiting for future firmware updates and i think i might try an esc that is more compatible with the skookum.
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Last edited by NHENRY; 08-29-2014 at 07:28 PM..
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Old 08-29-2014, 05:53 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Omerco, i could not apply this fix to the Mezon as the cc had a different problem than the jeti mezon! The cc had no bailout and the Mezon looses its soft start on second spool up and goes straight to bailout un commanded!

I will spend some more time over the weekend but i may end up buying another more compatible esc and adding jeti sensors to give telemetry. The good thing about the jeti is that the telemetry is built in within the esc!
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Old 08-29-2014, 10:20 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Henry
I think the fix you are looking for is the opposite from what i gave?
CC's problem is (was) it goes back to softstart. This solves that.
Your problem, and mine with my Scorpion ESC, is the opposite i believe...

Well I'm still waiting for a Castle guy to try it. Or YGE.
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Old 08-30-2014, 03:34 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Omerco, do you have a solution for the aggressive second spool up. I would gladly do some testing my end
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Old 08-30-2014, 03:45 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHENRY View Post
Omerco, do you have a solution for the aggressive second spool up. I would gladly do some testing my end
I've reported the aggressive second spool to Art - Its in his field. That is not how it was supposed to work so i guess its a bug...

Another reason why its better to combine the governor with the ESC soft start...
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Old 08-30-2014, 03:52 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Ok thank you Omerco. I will wait patiently wait for art to investigate the aggressive second spoolup problems on the Scorpion and Jeti Mezon Esc's?
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Old 08-30-2014, 04:05 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I use Scorpion Commander esc and I am struggling too with aggressive spool-ups after throttle hold engaged.
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Old 08-30-2014, 07:30 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavci_0655 View Post
I use Scorpion Commander esc and I am struggling too with aggressive spool-ups after throttle hold engaged.
Commander 130A?
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Old 08-30-2014, 07:48 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omerco View Post
Commander 130A?
Yes, 130A OPTO, latest one.
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Old 08-30-2014, 01:08 PM   #17 (permalink)
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OK thanks. i thought this one doesn't have it due to older firmware by guess i was mistaken...
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Old 08-30-2014, 03:45 PM   #18 (permalink)
 
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=] Omer hey! I follow the gist of things and have read Turemini's setup also, it seems to me part of the "trick" is to avoid hitting the SK min throttle in the drive system.

where this confuses me is, if a gov has already been setup this min setting is already stored. so it's not enough to turn the gov off then on again to clear this setting, it's always there.

what I'm looking for is the ingredient(s) that SK can realise to keep things simple, you are a huge stepping stone in achieving that! thanks!


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Old 08-31-2014, 01:44 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Hi Georgi!

Both Turemini's setup and mine DO HIT the Idle Throttle in our setups:
Turemini writes to do it while you prepare with 100/100 travels and that suggests to keep the min throttle vaule after calibration (-9) in his case.

This didn't work for me so i "invented" another way which is described in the "How to correct??" part in stage 2 of the setup.

UPDATE - i took my heli for a spin today to test it - it works like a charm

I will get some logs from next flight and upload them.
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Old 09-01-2014, 01:14 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Finally got a chance to set up auto rotation bail out on my G770 with the CC ESC.

These are my numbers in my DX9 TX:
THR Servo Travel -137/91
Throttle Cut -80

These are the numbers in the Skookum GUI:
TX in normal with throttle to minimum -25
Stunt 1 40
Stunt 2 60
Throttle hold "on" -10 at all throttle positions.
Low ramp 80
High ramp 100

The numbers in the CC ESC:
Initial spool up 6

Have only done ground testing with no blades and here are my observations.
Normal start I have a 7 second spool up to my target RPM.
Switch to Stunt 1
Switch to throttle hold "on" and motor spools down and stops.
Switch back to throttle hold "off" and motor spools up with normal 7 second acceleration to the target speed.
Switch back to throttle hold "on" and motor spools down and stops.
Switch back to throttle hold "off" and the motor does a fast start to target speed in 4 seconds.
Every subsequent throttle hold "on" followed by throttle hold "off" results in a correct fast start for auto bail out.
Only the first throttle hold "on" and back "off" results in a normal spool up of 7 seconds, the rest after that are good fast bail out spool ups of 4 seconds.

These tests were done with blades off and I know the SK governor has a hard time with RPM with no load on the system.
The results may differ with blades on.

Did you see something similar?
Just thought I would ask before committing on the flight line.

Thanks!
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