450L Dominator 6s/ Castle Edge 50/Microbeast - throttle dropouts - HeliFreak
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:58 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 450L Dominator 6s/ Castle Edge 50/Microbeast - throttle dropouts

/<total noob disclaimer>

I haven't gotten this off the ground yet, but have a serious issue.

I decided to swap the stock Align ESC with a CC Edge 50 before I even did the first hover. I had done some spool ups with the Align ESC and everything seemed fine, but the general opinion of the Align ESC was that it was crap, so I figured might as well swap it now as part of the inital build.
Swapped to the Edge 50 and then had to wait a few days because I didn't have the CC USB link. Got that in yesterday, did a firmware upgrade to the CC Edge 50 and ran thru the setup.
Set the throttle endpoint calibration.
Tried to spool it up without the blades on, it starts to spool up and then drops out, starts to spool up again.. getting higher RPM and then drops again, spool up again - to higher RPM and then cuts out again, etc. etc.
I check all connections and everything looks good.
I went thru throttle endpoint calibration, again and it was good.
Try spool up and it does the same thing.
Then the ESC beeped a code for "Radio Glitch".
I swapped out my Spectrum satellite with a spare and got the same behavior.
I downloaded the logs from the ESC and they clearly show the "throttle" dropping at the same time that the motor RPM's drop out.
I verified my radio setup in the Microbeast and also went thru re-binding, twice, when I swapped in the new satellite and then again when I put the old one back in. Still the same issue.
I noticed, the last time, that when the motor drops out, the orange light on the Spectrum satellite also goes out, so it's obviously losing power.
The ESC datalogs don't show any drop in voltage or current at those points where the motor RPM/Throttle data drops.

I tried with 2 different battery packs and got the same result.

I found one post concerning "Radio Glitch" and they mentioned cold solder joints. I know the solder joints on the batteries are good because the issue occurs with either pack. I suppose it *could* be a cold solder joint on the connector on the ESC, but not sure.

The one thought I had is that in the ESC setup, set BEC voltage to 6.0v.. I checked the Align manual and it says the servos can run at 6.0v-8.0v for this model 450. Should I bump the BEC voltage up to 8.0v?

I'll add the Castle data logfile as a separate post and a screenshot...

I haven't got a clue, at this point.
HELP!!!
Thanks, in advance!
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Old 02-09-2017, 09:29 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Do you still have the asking ESC? You could try bench testing it with that.

How do you have the castle ESC setup? Gov mode?
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Old 02-09-2017, 09:35 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I do still have the Align ESC. I could swap it back in and see if the issue occurs there, but I'm going to make an educated guess and say that it won't, since all was working fine, prior to the ESC swap.

I have the CC ESC setup in "Fixed Endpoint Mode". The 'plan' was to switch to governor mode, at some point in the future.
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:14 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Did you solder the bullets on the ESC? Or were they all ready on? Could be a bad solder joint in there.
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:22 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Yes, I did have to solder the bullets for the motor connection as well as the battery connector, on to the ESC.
It's certainly possible one could be bad. Logically, if any of them are bad, I would guess it would be the one on the battery connector, since I see the power light on the satellite receiver go off, when the dropout occurs. If the power light on the satellite stayed on, but the motor dropped, that would seem to indicate it might be the motor connectors... at least that's my logical deduction.
I'll try re-soldering the connectors tonight, if no one else comes up with any other ideas.
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I re-soldered the connection on the ESC and now it only seems to drop out at 100% throttle. If I let it spool up to 100% and then move the cyclic controls, I'll see the satellite RX power light go out and then then the motor will restart.
::sigh::
I actually re-soldered the ESC connector, twice now. After the first re-solder, I tested and noticed it was dropping only at 100% so I tried again and definitely ensure the wires were fully tinned and stuck down into the connector which was already full of solder and was certain to not move it until it had cooled.

I'm using XT-90 anti-spark connectors on the ESC and Batteries.

I also noticed the motor seems pretty warm after a run up like that... lasting maybe 15-20seconds, tops. I've no idea how warm/hot this Align motor runs, when spinning at 100% with no load.

Just to cover all the points, here are my ESC settings.
Helicopter
Fixed-Endpoints.
BRAKE- all disabled
CUTOFFS
Cutoff Voltage - Auto Lipo
Auto-Lipo Volts/Cell 3.2v
Voltage Cutoff Type - Soft Cutoff
Current Limiting - Insensitive (80A)
Current Cutoff Type = Soft Cutoff
MOTOR
Motor Start Power - Normal
Motor Timing - Normal
Direction - Forward
PWM Rate - 8Khz (tried 12 also, made no difference)
OTHER
BEC Voltage - 6.0v (tried 8.0v also, made no difference).
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Old 02-09-2017, 09:35 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The BEC in the edge 50 lite sucks and it could be causing your rpm drops. I downloaded your log and changed the view to include only BEC voltage and throttle input. You can see that the Throttle input only drops when the BEC voltage drops. the microbeast or receiver may not be able to function at that low a BEC voltage. It's attached below so you can see what i'm talking about.

I can tell you that the BEC that's built into the edge light 50 is weak. I actually put one in my 450L a few days ago and the receiver voltage would dip down to 3.0v during pitch pumps so i'm switching it out. You have a few better options. If you're running a 6S setup, the Talon 35 is a better option for you, as the BEC is much better. You could also ad an external CC 2.0 BEC as well if you wanted to that route instead. If you're not stuck on CC, you could go with the Hobbywing 50A v3.

Also, the XT90 connectors are huge! are you having any issues getting the canopy on with everything connected?


Last edited by delgadokdd; 02-09-2017 at 09:55 PM.. Reason: missed information in original post.
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Old 02-09-2017, 09:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Wow! The BEC? Really?
FYI, this isn't the Edge 50 Lite, it's the Phoenix Edge 50.
I would think this would be a warranty issue for CC, then?

Surprised, though that it's the BEC when re-soldering the connectors seems to have improved the issue though still not solved it.

Not really, "stuck" on the CC, but I'm a bit invested now, having bought the USB adapter.

Yea. The XT90's are huge. I had to trim the leads on the ESC and the battery down to get everything crammed in there.

I was considering switching to EC3 connectors in an attempt to resolve this issue (and free up space), but I really hate that SPARK when I connect up the battery.
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:07 PM   #9 (permalink)
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It's not necessarily anything wrong with the ESC, that one (and the lite) have weak BECs. The Align's BEC is actually better than that one. The one on the CC only has a 5 amp MAX ability.

If you can return that one, I'd personally go with the talon 35. the only downfall is that it doesn't have data logging and the BEC voltage is fixed at 5.5v. If you want to keep the data logging, I'd still return that one, buy the edge 50 lite and add an external BEC from CC.

As far as the battery connector, the next time you have to switch them out, try the XT60 connectors, they are half the size and can handle more current than the 450L can produce.
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:11 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Ok.

One more piece to the puzzle.

I changed motor timing to Low and it didn't cut out.
Changed motor timing back to Normal and it cut's out.

Downloaded logs and cleared in between.

Checking both logs, I don't really see a drop-out on the BEC line that coorelates.

I've attached both logs.

Both runs are with an 90%, 85%, 80%, 85%, 100% throttle curve.
The drops seem to occur with full pitch and lots of cyclic input (which I'm guessing would be putting a demand on the BEC).
Attached Files
File Type: csv Motor_timing_low.csv (118.3 KB, 26 views)
File Type: csv Motor_timing_normal.csv (174.3 KB, 24 views)
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