Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > 500 Class Electric Helicopters


500 Class Electric Helicopters 500 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


View Poll Results: Should you ground the frame?
Yes, its worth it to avoid glitches 38 33.04%
No, too much chance of shorting something out 39 33.91%
Not sure 38 33.04%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-25-2008, 12:42 PM   #1 (permalink)
HF Support
 
Posts: 30,943
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: May 2006
Default Negative to the frame

It has been pointed out that if you run the battery black wire (the ESC negative input) to the frame (or the motor mount) thereby making the whole frame negative, that if you ever shorted anything to the frame it would be bad.

Do you think think this is important enough of a drawback to not do it?

Rick
__________________
Helifreak, the place to be!
Oxy5 w/Brain2, Rush 750 w/VBAR,Logo 400SE, 600SE w/NEOs, TREX 450SE, 500, 600, Blade mCPX,130X, 180CFX, Nano QX, Convergence VTOL, MiniProtos w/BD3SX
My products, used by top pilots worldwide, like you! http://rdlohr.com
rdlohr is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-25-2008, 04:11 PM   #2 (permalink)
Team Taco VP
 
Posts: 34,528
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Nov 2005
Default

After all the testing and seeing things myself. I do not believe you need to ground the neg side of the battery to the frame. I don;t believe the ESC noise was causing the DX RX shut downs. It is static causing that. However if your gyro is not liking your specific setup (like my Solid-G) because your specific setup's BEC is generating too much noise then YES ground it. Or if you don;t like that, then get a separate BEC.

Thus I voted NO for this poll.

Bob
Finless is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2008, 05:49 PM   #3 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Mar 2007
Default

If you use a seperate bec , do you change the esc or can you use the standard esc with a seperate bec??
__________________
Glenn
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
noste500 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2008, 05:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
Team Taco VP
 
Posts: 34,528
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Nov 2005
Default

Use ths standard ESC but pull out the RED wire from the cable that goes from the ESC to the RX.

Bob
Finless is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2008, 06:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Default

I initially had some tail kicks and moved the gyro and changed the tape which seemed to have eliminated the problem, but i also grounded the esc to the frame (for peace of mind), im now having second thoughts about the grounding due to the possibility of a short ! so i voted not sure
RADTECH is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2008, 06:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,312
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default

I grounded mine to the neg. ESC. And i have a bare aluminum frame! I dont worry about it.
dieselracer is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2008, 06:30 PM   #7 (permalink)
HF Support
 
Posts: 30,943
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: May 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RADTECH View Post
I initially had some tail kicks and moved the gyro and changed the tape which seemed to have eliminated the problem, but i also grounded the esc to the frame (for peace of mind), im now having second thoughts about the grounding due to the possibility of a short ! so i voted not sure
ChasHeliCop says using my gyro mount stopped his tail kick. I'll wait and see whether I have a kick before grounding the frame to the negative.

Rick
__________________
Helifreak, the place to be!
Oxy5 w/Brain2, Rush 750 w/VBAR,Logo 400SE, 600SE w/NEOs, TREX 450SE, 500, 600, Blade mCPX,130X, 180CFX, Nano QX, Convergence VTOL, MiniProtos w/BD3SX
My products, used by top pilots worldwide, like you! http://rdlohr.com
rdlohr is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2008, 06:35 PM   #8 (permalink)
HF Support
 
Posts: 4,885
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: May 2007
Default

I have NOT grounded my frame to the neg. on the ESC / Battery. I never agreed with it from the beginning. As Bob stated, I don't think that was the original issue either, and I don't believe it's necessary. Fry your ESC or Lipo from a short, and the cost goes up from there. I have seen post of the damage and the potential. I also voted NO on this poll. Especially since I installed that nice gyro / Rx tray some dude on here was making.
__________________
Sponsored by Visa/MasterCard / Team Budweiser / Trojan Field Rep
Donut Connoisseur

HELI-FREAK, You couldn't have picked a better place to land !
ChasHeliCop is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2008, 09:03 PM   #9 (permalink)
 

Join Date: Feb 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlohr View Post
It has been pointed out that if you run the battery black wire (the ESC negative input) to the frame (or the motor mount) thereby making the whole frame negative, that if you ever shorted anything to the frame it would be bad.

Do you think think this is important enough of a drawback to not do it?

Rick

Are you saying; anything that gets shorted to a UNGROUNDED Carbon Frame is OK?
chichiuno is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2008, 09:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
 

Join Date: May 2007
Default

Unbelievable, simply unbelievable
Tailrotor Joe is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2008, 09:35 PM   #11 (permalink)
HF Support
 
Posts: 30,943
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: May 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chichiuno View Post
Are you saying; anything that gets shorted to a UNGROUNDED Carbon Frame is OK?
No, but the result would typically not be as catastrophic. Why take this risk when the other mods fix the problem for most people?

Rick
__________________
Helifreak, the place to be!
Oxy5 w/Brain2, Rush 750 w/VBAR,Logo 400SE, 600SE w/NEOs, TREX 450SE, 500, 600, Blade mCPX,130X, 180CFX, Nano QX, Convergence VTOL, MiniProtos w/BD3SX
My products, used by top pilots worldwide, like you! http://rdlohr.com
rdlohr is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2008, 09:48 PM   #12 (permalink)
epl
Team Taco Member
 

Join Date: Dec 2006
Default Negative to the frame

If the people building the heli paid more attention when setting up the wiring then a grounded frame would not be a issue.IMO!
__________________
Logo 500SE Vbar, Jive100LV, BLS451, BLS251, Edge 553
Logo 600SE Vbar,Jive 120, BLS451s, 9254, 5020-450 10S
T 700 Vbar , YS91SR , Hatori SB19 , DS8717 , AR7100R , Radix 710
epl is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2008, 09:52 PM   #13 (permalink)
HF Support
 
Posts: 30,943
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: May 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by epl View Post
If the people building the heli paid more attention when setting up the wiring then a grounded frame would not be a issue.IMO!
Well, personally I think most people would say I'm pretty careful about my wiring.
I'm more thinking about wires getting pulled hard during a crash and rubbing against a sharp edge. Next thing you know the LIPO and/or ESC catches on fire and a minor cost crash becomes a major cost crash.

If this was the only way to make my heli dependable, I would take the risk. As it stands, I don't see it as mandatory.

Rick
__________________
Helifreak, the place to be!
Oxy5 w/Brain2, Rush 750 w/VBAR,Logo 400SE, 600SE w/NEOs, TREX 450SE, 500, 600, Blade mCPX,130X, 180CFX, Nano QX, Convergence VTOL, MiniProtos w/BD3SX
My products, used by top pilots worldwide, like you! http://rdlohr.com
rdlohr is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2008, 09:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
 

Join Date: Feb 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by epl View Post
If the people building the heli paid more attention when setting up the wiring then a grounded frame would not be a issue.IMO!
AMEN.
chichiuno is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2008, 09:58 PM   #15 (permalink)
 

Join Date: Feb 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlohr View Post
Well, personally I think most people would say I'm pretty careful about my wiring.
I'm more thinking about wires getting pulled hard during a crash and rubbing against a sharp edge. Next thing you know the LIPO and/or ESC catches on fire and a minor cost crash becomes a major cost crash.

If this was the only way to make my heli dependable, I would take the risk. As it stands, I don't see it as mandatory.

Rick

So what is the reasoning to SHORT the boom/bearings to the UNGROUNDED CF Frame? Is this to TRANSFER all the EMI/RFI to the boom/bearings radiating from the CF frames via the AC motor?
chichiuno is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2008, 10:05 PM   #16 (permalink)
HF Support
 
Posts: 4,885
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: May 2007
Default

Actually the effect of grounding the bearings is to neutralize the Van de Graaf effect and the production of static from the belt. The overall effect is not grounding the bearings to the frame, but connecting the front and rear gears.

But let's not make this another argument thread, people have their personal opinions on the matter and peoples opinions will always differ.
__________________
Sponsored by Visa/MasterCard / Team Budweiser / Trojan Field Rep
Donut Connoisseur

HELI-FREAK, You couldn't have picked a better place to land !
ChasHeliCop is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2008, 10:09 PM   #17 (permalink)
HF Support
 
Posts: 30,943
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: May 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chichiuno View Post
So what is the reasoning to SHORT the boom/bearings to the UNGROUNDED CF Frame? Is this to TRANSFER all the EMI/RFI to the boom/bearings radiating from the CF frames via the AC motor?
Actually I would like to explore this a little without arguing. Making sure the pulleys and boom are at the same potential avoids the Van de Graaf affect.

Taking all that and grounding it to the frame keeps most of the heli at the same potential to avoid a spark between heli parts. I would agree that the heli now is floating with respect to the electronics so a spark could jump to the electronics. You have now hit the basis for why I made this poll.


Hopefully, and empirical evidence supports this so far, when the Van de Graaf affect is removed, not that much voltage is generated so there is not enough difference in potential to cause a spark.

I've never had to ground my frames to the negative on my other helis.

Rick
__________________
Helifreak, the place to be!
Oxy5 w/Brain2, Rush 750 w/VBAR,Logo 400SE, 600SE w/NEOs, TREX 450SE, 500, 600, Blade mCPX,130X, 180CFX, Nano QX, Convergence VTOL, MiniProtos w/BD3SX
My products, used by top pilots worldwide, like you! http://rdlohr.com
rdlohr is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2008, 10:16 PM   #18 (permalink)
HF Support
 
Posts: 30,943
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: May 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chichiuno View Post
So what is the reasoning to SHORT the boom/bearings to the UNGROUNDED CF Frame? Is this to TRANSFER all the EMI/RFI to the boom/bearings radiating from the CF frames via the AC motor?
Why do you think the EMI/RFI from the motor would be conducted in this way. Any EMI experts care to comment on that one?

Rick
__________________
Helifreak, the place to be!
Oxy5 w/Brain2, Rush 750 w/VBAR,Logo 400SE, 600SE w/NEOs, TREX 450SE, 500, 600, Blade mCPX,130X, 180CFX, Nano QX, Convergence VTOL, MiniProtos w/BD3SX
My products, used by top pilots worldwide, like you! http://rdlohr.com
rdlohr is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2008, 10:29 PM   #19 (permalink)
 

Join Date: Feb 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlohr View Post
Actually I would like to explore this a little without arguing. Making sure the pulleys and boom are at the same potential avoids the Van de Graaf affect.

Taking all that and grounding it to the frame keeps most of the heli at the same potential to avoid a spark between heli parts. I would agree that the heli now is floating with respect to the electronics so a spark could jump to the electronics. You have now hit the basis for why I made this poll.


Hopefully, and empirical evidence supports this so far, when the Van de Graaf affect is removed, not that much voltage is generated so there is not enough difference in potential to cause a spark.

I've never had to ground my frames to the negative on my other helis.

Rick
I see your point.
It has been proven even with all these mods done, still a static field is still present.

btw: I NEVER had to do any Boom/bearing grounding to ANY of my helis to date.
chichiuno is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2008, 10:33 PM   #20 (permalink)
HF Support
 
Posts: 30,943
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: May 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chichiuno View Post
I see your point.
It has been proven even with all these mods done, still a static field is still present.

btw: I NEVER had to do any Boom/bearing grounding to ANY of my helis to date.
Yep. Neither have I. I'm assuming its the combination of the plastic boom and tail blocks, and the belt hitting the boom block that all add up to trouble on this heli.

It seems when the Van de Graaf is defeated, the rest of the static is tolerable by the electronics.

Rick
__________________
Helifreak, the place to be!
Oxy5 w/Brain2, Rush 750 w/VBAR,Logo 400SE, 600SE w/NEOs, TREX 450SE, 500, 600, Blade mCPX,130X, 180CFX, Nano QX, Convergence VTOL, MiniProtos w/BD3SX
My products, used by top pilots worldwide, like you! http://rdlohr.com
rdlohr is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply




Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the HeliFreak forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your REAL and WORKING email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Use a real email address or you will not be granted access to the site. Thank you.
Email Address:
Location
Where do you live? ie: Country, State, City or General Geographic Location please.
Name and Lastname
Enter name and last name here. (This information is not shown to the general public. Optional)
Helicopter #1
Enter Helicopter #1 type and equipment.
Helicopter #2
Enter Helicopter #2 type and equipment.
Helicopter #3
Enter Helicopter #3 type and equipment.
Helicopter #4
Enter Helicopter #4 type and equipment.

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright © Website Acquisitions Inc. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1