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Old 04-13-2015, 02:12 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Optimized setups files

Hi guys

after more than one year with V4 I have learned a lot about our gyro. I'm uploading here some setup files with optimized parameters which i have found to perform better than the defaults on all the helies I worked with and especially on the Goblins - improving the elevator bounce problem.

The main 2 differences are (parameters you cannot see):
1. higher Hiller to Damping ratio (64/15) - this gives, in my experience, much better locking feeling, less porpoising and pitching up in FFF and better cyclic stop behaviour.
2. higher tail rate gain (80) - gives better pyro consistency IMO (traveling pyros + pyro loops etc.).

Apart for that i have posted my own 3D files for big helies like my X7:
- high cyclic acceleration (80=max) - this i find very important for stop behaviour and also fast changing maneuvers.
- relatively high hiller decay for the bigger helies (160+-) - makes them more loose.
- relatively high bell gain - IMO bell and acceleration go together: if you want fast reaction (bell) you want high acceleration and vice versa.

The sport flight files:
- medium Hiller decay
- medium bell gain over rate.
- medium cyclic accel (30 is always too low, IMO).

Files:
- 3D big heli - for all 550-700 helies (Goblin included).
- X7 3D - specific for the X7, or helies with similar mechanic values. (can be used on others as well but higher cyclic gain might be needed if not X7).
- 3D small (x3, 450) - As written...
-Sport Flight.

What you need to do:
1. save your own setup to your computer.
2.choose the setup file which suits you most. rename the TXT extension to SK7 and upload it to your gyro.
3. run a complete setup according to the wizards. you can skip the mechanical setup by copying the parameters from your previous file (swashplate, swash servos, tail servo).
4. please pay great attention to gyro orientation and correct behaviour before your test flight

flight tuning:
cyclic:
1. lower your governor gain (or disable it): if its sk then 7 numbers will be good. castle = 5. lower your tail gain by 5 numbers.
2. hover in your desired headspeed and set the total cyclic gain until you have cyclic oscillations on quick stick jab. when you get there back the gain down 2-3 numbers.
3. after the first step do a fast hurricane - preferably upside down nose first - and look for oscillations (you will hear them). usually you will have none but if you do then back the gain some more until its gone.

Tail:
1. normal tuning - usually I do hard funnels to check holding and fast hurricanes to check that my gain is not too high.

last - Governor:
Normal tuning until you have oscillations in hurricanes - then back it some. make sure your tail gain is set so it doesn't oscillate otherwise you will not be able to tell if its tail or governor.

Rest of the tuning is as you know it.

Waiting for your feedbacks. I will improve the files as needed.
Omer
Attached Files
File Type: txt 3D big heli.txt (263 Bytes, 533 views)
File Type: txt X7 3D.txt (263 Bytes, 237 views)
File Type: txt 3D small (x3).txt (263 Bytes, 342 views)
File Type: txt sport flight.txt (263 Bytes, 344 views)
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Last edited by omerco; 04-14-2015 at 03:29 PM..
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Old 04-13-2015, 02:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
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=] Great work as always Omer! So let's get it up-top! I need some more time on your files, in the meantime, importantly what servo's, voltage, blade types, RPM's etc?

Thanks! georgi.
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Old 04-13-2015, 02:50 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The RPMs i left in the governor tab.
I'm using MKS 6V servos with LiFe batteries. these are the ds670/760 and they are almost as strong and fast as the HV ones, especially on LiFe.
But from my experience - it makes very little difference. I have worked on many helies this year - some HV and some not. the parameters are from work done with some of our local pros on their helies and from mine. there was not sig difference.

Upload and enjoy
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Old 04-14-2015, 06:47 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks for posting these Omer!

Guys, I'm running one of Omers custom Hiller/Damping gain files in my Goblin for quite some time now, and it really improved its stability and reduced pitch up in speed runs.

Maybe if Skookum sees fit, they will give us access back to these individual tuning parameters that they took away with the V4 software. It would be nice for them to come back when in Advanced mode, and it would actually make it "advanced" since in its current functionality there is really no difference from the basic tuning interface.
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Old 04-17-2015, 01:50 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Could you give a few screen shots of your setup tabs
Thanks
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Old 04-17-2015, 04:53 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by van-man-123 View Post
Could you give a few screen shots of your setup tabs
Thanks
What specific information are you after? The changes that Omer has made to these files is not something that is accessible to you in the setup tabs. These are custom behind the scenes hiller and damping gain combo values that are all woven into the overall cyclic gain value. The only way to take advantage of them is to download one of his files he posted and use that setup file as a base.
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Old 04-17-2015, 05:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrayted View Post
What specific information are you after? The changes that Omer has made to these files is not something that is accessible to you in the setup tabs. These are custom behind the scenes hiller and damping gain combo values that are all woven into the overall cyclic gain value. The only way to take advantage of them is to download one of his files he posted and use that setup file as a base.
Got ya relized after i posted this it was control loop numbers
Has anyone tryed them yet
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Old 04-17-2015, 05:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by van-man-123 View Post
Got ya relized after i posted this it was control loop numbers
Has anyone tryed them yet
As stated in my post, I have been using them for some time now and it works well on my Goblin. He just started this thread and posted them up for others to have access to them 4 days ago.
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Old 04-17-2015, 08:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Nice! it sounds like a top secret squirrel decoder ring is hidden in here somewhere!

I can't wait to try these out. Thanks for your work!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrayted View Post
What specific information are you after? The changes that Omer has made to these files is not something that is accessible to you in the setup tabs. These are custom behind the scenes hiller and damping gain combo values that are all woven into the overall cyclic gain value. The only way to take advantage of them is to download one of his files he posted and use that setup file as a base.
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Old 04-18-2015, 04:55 AM   #10 (permalink)
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The numbers in the 3d setup files are the numbers used by me for some years now.
In the last year i got to optimize them on few helies, Xrayted's was one of them but there are few more guys in the forum as well.
The numbers you can see are the hiller decay, acceleration and such and they are my preference for strong 3d.

Goblin by the way can use even higher hiller. The file i have posted is an overall good compromise fitting all.
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Old 04-18-2015, 03:12 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Hey omer, are these settings similar to the one you made for me?

I'm going to apply these to my other heli's this week or all of them if it's not the same.
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Old 04-18-2015, 03:52 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Yes they are the same
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Old 04-21-2015, 10:57 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Default regarding tuning in the Optimized set up files

Hey omerco,
when you refer to this:

flight tuning:
cyclic:

2. hover in your desired headspeed and set the total cyclic gain until you have cyclic oscillations on quick stick jab. when you get there back the gain down 2-3 numbers.


Are you referring to a fast oscillation or "any" oscillation?

In following "any" oscillation, I lowered my cyclic 1 tab gain to mid 30's on my DT700. I'm not saying it's too low, just curious what you were referring to.
thx
Scott
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Old 04-21-2015, 02:57 PM   #14 (permalink)
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post your setup file (need to rename the EXT to TXT, or just post a log) I would like to see your mechanical values. I will see my answer moves there as well.

If your mechanics are fine then you better use the X7 file for that setup it will give slightly higher gain #.

The oscillation: in quick stick jab - meaning you give sharp small input and release - too high gain will cause fast oscillations. if it is just small elevator bounce than it depends on your tolerance for it: lower until you are happy with it especially on tictocs.
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Last edited by omerco; 04-21-2015 at 10:34 PM..
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Old 04-21-2015, 07:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Ah, I see you or someone moved it all to this thread. Good cause I had no idea how to do that.

My set up file is uploaded here. I would also have posted a flight log, however it's over 2mb. Any trick/guidance on that? I tried changing it to a zip file and that doesn't seem to be allowed.
Attached Files
File Type: txt DT700-2.txt (263 Bytes, 145 views)
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Old 04-22-2015, 10:42 AM   #16 (permalink)
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You are not well inside the geometrical spec of SK. you have 125 travels with 65 on the swash mix (are you getting 10 deg?). its not out of bound but its not well set.

Add to that that you are using Align servos? or Savox old ones? If Align than its even worse because they lower the resolution even more.

All that might cause your gain to be low (early oscillations) and the heli will feel unlocked.

Can you take the ball link on your servo horns out one hole at least?

(By the way on your tail servo its the same. you want 100/100 or 120/80 and so)
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Old 04-22-2015, 10:49 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Hey Omer,
If those travel numbers are off (125 and 65) what should they be.

125 is what's default if I'm not mistaken I can set them any way I like and adjust the hole position accordingly. If I remember 60 on the swash mix is ideal and I can adjust accordingly. If I'm not mistaken I'm getting 13.5 degrees of collective.

My servos are Kingmax:http://onlyfinehelis.com/servos/king...ess-mini-servo
I run them at 8 volts give or take from a CCBec pro and they've been great.

Happy to revisit the set up. - Scott

specs:
FEATURES:
-- High performance programmable digital high voltage standard servo
-- High-precision Taiwan-made aluminium gears with hard anodizing
-- High quality brushless motor
-- Dual ball bearings
-- Waterproof
-- Ideal for 550-700 class heli swashplate
SPECIFICATIONS:
Dead band: 0.8μs default
Working frequence: 1520μs / 330hz
Operating Voltage: DC6.0~8.4 V
Operating Speed (6.0V): 0.075 sec/60 degrees
Operating Speed (7.4V): 0.061 sec/60 degrees
Operating Speed (8.4V): 0.054 sec/60 degrees
Stall Torque (6.0V): 15.33 kg.cm (212.93 oz/in)
Stall Torque (7.4V): 18.85 kg.cm (261.83 oz/in)
Stall Torque (8.4V): 21.4 kg.cm (297.25 oz/in)
Dimensions: 40.2X20X38mm /1.58X0.79X1.5 in
Weight: 61.8g (2.18oz)
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Old 04-22-2015, 02:29 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sctholson View Post
Hey Omer,
If those travel numbers are off (125 and 65) what should they be.
some say the optimum is 100 on 60 for 10 deg cyclic (not collective like you wrote). I usually get 120-125 on 55-60 and my helies fly well.

Also the numbers you need for 13.5 collective are on the high side.

Don't know these servos...

Putting that aside - if you are happy with the performance with these travels & gain numbers just leave it be, or use the X7 file.
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Old 04-22-2015, 07:30 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Okay I looked things over.

I had 10.5 degrees of cyclic dialed in and when I lowered that to 10 the elevator and aileron mix was at 61%.

If I do give a try to lower swash travel distance in set up software to 100 all around and shoot for 60% mix I'll have to do that mechanically. As it is the balls are in the last hole in the arm. Will have to search for other arms. If I do that I'll see what differences it makes. Not sure I'm good enough to notice the difference though.

Thanks for the insight.
Scott
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Old 04-22-2015, 09:41 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Don't change you are good. I was afraid you might have less then 10.
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