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Blade 230S Blade 230S Helicopters Information and Help


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Old 03-09-2016, 07:03 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vortexring View Post
Sorry if this is a repost, but my original won't show up.

I did the trim flight procedure and the heli is rock solid for about 90 seconds and then little by little until landing at the 5 min. mark, the heli wants to drift to the right until after 5 minutes if I let go of the cyclic the heli darts to the right at a high rate of speed.

Then, when starting up again with a new battery, the pattern is repeated: starts out rock solid, then develops a drift to the right which gets worse and worse until landing (needs near full trim to counteract).

This can't be right. Any ideas?

Thanks!
This sounds like one of the issues that the latest firmware/update was designed to fix......has this RX had the latest firmware/update installed ?? ........
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Old 03-22-2016, 08:42 PM   #22 (permalink)
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All,

Wanted to share this here as it is the "TIps and Tricks" section for this model.

This posting is for those flying the 230S with the DX6i and having ANY issue with accessing the various parameter settings to make adjustments and execute the trim flight.

I had changed quite a few of my settings D/R and Expo to my liking and then decided it did need the trim flight. I kept trying to enter the servo adjustment and trim flight mode per the manual instructions with no success. And then it dawned on me perhaps it doesn't like that I had changed the D/L - Expo settings so drastically, so I put all the Heli setup back to factory / manual settings, tried to execute the servo and trim settings modes again and success! So if you have made any major changes and are having issues entering those modes, try going back to the manual settings and try again and it should work....it worked for me. Any question, let me know

Regards,
Jeff, WhiteBearLake, MN
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Old 03-29-2016, 04:44 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Vortexring,

I have seen your issue in a couple of models, generally its a high frequency vibration that causes the problem.

a) If your tail motor has a sticker on it that says (probably says E328) on it peel it off and throw it away, this was added by our compliance group after production began and can cause a balance issue since the motor is rotating at a high rpm. This was changed over to laser etching which won't affect balance.

b) If the main motor has a sticker on it peel it off and throw it away. This was changed over to laser etching which won't affect balance.

c) Damage on the tail rotor can cause a vibration as well, even grass stains are enough to cause a problem. If in doubt try a new tail rotor.

d) The tail prop adapter has two screws on it, they need to be tightened down evenly or it is possible to warp the adapter. You can see this by rotating the prop by hand and watching to see if the screw and washer rotate in line. The factory has done a great job on this but a crash or tail strike can change this.

e) Main motor gear mesh, the 230s prefers a slightly tight gear mesh. This is contrary to most helicopters and the 1st time that I have seen it but the vibration is reduced and the model flies better with a slightly tight gear mesh.

Try one thing at a time and see if the problem changes.

Please let me know how it goes.

Regards,
Brian Bremer
Horizon Hobby, Inc.

Last edited by Brian Bremer; 04-04-2016 at 10:10 AM..
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Old 03-29-2016, 07:14 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Brian,

Can you tell us the size of the bearings in the main and tail motors? It's wasteful to buy new motors only because of the bearings. Thanks.
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Old 03-29-2016, 07:50 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Brian,
Thank you for post #23. I am having exactly the same problem as vortexring - stable to start but wanting to drift more and more right. Mine has been rebuilt into an almost-full Rakon Heli conversion.

I do, however, have the stickers on the motors, so the tail motor sticker came off tonight. When it dries out a bit outside, I'll give it a try and report back. I did tighten up my gear mesh before the last flight and that seemed to help a little, but not enough.
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Old 03-30-2016, 01:10 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Bremer View Post
Vortexring,

I have seen your issue in a couple of models, generally its a high frequency vibration that causes the problem.

a) If your tail motor has a sticker on it that says (probably says E328) on it peel it off and throw it away, this was added by our compliance group after production began and can cause a balance issue since the motor is rotating at a high rpm. This was changed over to laser etching which won't affect balance.

b) If the main motor has a sticker on it peel it off and throw it away. This was changed over to laser etching which won't affect balance.

Horizon Hobby, Inc.
No joy for me on the motor stickers. I removed the tail motor sticker last night and got a chance to try it today. No real change - still starting out well trimmed and wanting to drift progressively harder to the right.

Then I removed the main motor sticker, did a new trim flight, landed, stored new values and tried flying. Again started out with the cyclic nearly centered but after 20 seconds in the air the cyclic was against the left stop and the heli still wanted to drift right.

I will try the other suggestions after the approaching storm gets done with us.
Rick
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Old 03-30-2016, 03:20 PM   #27 (permalink)
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You aren't accidentally hitting the trim tab whilst flying - I have done that before and wondered what was going on.
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Old 03-30-2016, 03:29 PM   #28 (permalink)
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You aren't accidentally hitting the trim tab whilst flying - I have done that before and wondered what was going on.
Good thought, but nope. All 4 trims are still dead center.

At certain head speeds - about 3/4 the speed needed for takeoff - I can see the head vibrating but once it spools up to takeoff speed, it's good and stable (or the amplitude of the vibration drops way down). I haven't been able to find the source of the vibration yet but Brian's post gave me some other things to look at. I'll keep working his list and if that doesn't solve it, I'll probably replace mains parts - shafts, dampers, blades, etc. I just wish we could get two days of good weather in a row for testing changes. Heck, I'd settle for 2 hours in a row.
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Old 03-31-2016, 07:27 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Take the screws out holding the landing gear and use 3m extreme mounting tape to hold them on, in a crash they will pop right off and not break then just stick them back on. Saves a few bucks in parts!
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Old 03-31-2016, 10:01 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Boulder53 View Post
Good thought, but nope. All 4 trims are still dead center.

At certain head speeds - about 3/4 the speed needed for takeoff - I can see the head vibrating but once it spools up to takeoff speed, it's good and stable (or the amplitude of the vibration drops way down). I haven't been able to find the source of the vibration yet but Brian's post gave me some other things to look at. I'll keep working his list and if that doesn't solve it, I'll probably replace mains parts - shafts, dampers, blades, etc. I just wish we could get two days of good weather in a row for testing changes. Heck, I'd settle for 2 hours in a row.
Have you got a factory matching set of blades, or have checked the balance. I just replaced one of mine once and had a terrible vibration. Dampers are the other obvious problem (if they have any petroleum based product on them they go soft very quick).
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Old 04-01-2016, 01:13 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by crsorrell0653 View Post
Have you got a factory matching set of blades, or have checked the balance. I just replaced one of mine once and had a terrible vibration. Dampers are the other obvious problem (if they have any petroleum based product on them they go soft very quick).
When I started trying to track down the problem, I had a new set of stock blades on. One of the things I did early on was to take the main shaft apart completely and check for bent shafts and things out of balance. Both the main shaft and the feathering shaft were straight (checked by rolling on glass). I checked the blade balance and found that there was a few milligrams difference between them and added just enough tape to the light blade to even them out.

Over the weeks since, though, I've hit the ground rather hard a few times. And the last flight ended in the main blades bouncing off my truck door a few times when the right drift would not respond to full left cyclic.

I'm pretty much down to tail rotor and adapter issues on Brian's list, and I want to check and rebuild the main shaft again. Today looks beautiful but the wind is in squirrel mode - calm one minute and 20 MPH the next. Maybe I'll get some checking and rebuilding done today and be ready for the next nice day.
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Old 04-01-2016, 09:51 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Brian Bremer View Post

d) The tail prop adapter has two screws on it, they need to be tightened down evenly or it is possible to warp the adapter. You can see this by rotating the prop by hand and watching to see if the screw and washer rotate in line. The factory has done a great job on this but a crash or tail strike can change this.
BINGO

I had a vibe that was driving me nuts and it turned out to be a slightly bent tail prop adapter. I finally noticed it while spinning the tail motor by hand and carefully checking to see if each tail blade was parallel to the tail boom. They weren't.

I changed the adapter and I was back to a nice, sharp and responsive tail like it was out of the box instead of the vague feeling, tail hunting I had before.
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Old 04-03-2016, 08:37 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I'm pretty much down to tail rotor and adapter issues on Brian's list, and I want to check and rebuild the main shaft again. Today looks beautiful but the wind is in squirrel mode - calm one minute and 20 MPH the next. Maybe I'll get some checking and rebuilding done today and be ready for the next nice day.
I finished stage one of the rebuild today. The tail spindle and blades were fine so I moved on to the main shaft. Replaced the stock head with a RKH head and installed new dampers. Re-installed the RKH blade grips that I put on about 3 weeks ago. Also replaced the blades with a new set of stock blades.

It's still too gusty (for me) to tell whether the problem is fixed but I did get off the ground for about a minute and did not have to bury the cyclic against the left limit in order to hold a hover. It seems better but I'll know more when the wind calms down.
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Old 04-04-2016, 10:29 AM   #34 (permalink)
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3DMuse;

Main Motor Bearings 3x7x3

Tail Motor Bearings 2x6x3
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Old 04-05-2016, 12:36 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Its just a typo. The 1st mentioned in that paragraph is verify the swash is level, that is up to you to ensure it is level.

The test was to see if you are close to 0 collective, not level the swash. The mention of the swash is level was in error on my part.

Its far from a perfect test but works okay on the little models.

It provides a starting point, test flying is the only way to verify +/- collective range is balanced and even that does't guarantee mid stick is 0.

I would fix the typo but for some reason i cannot edit the original post.
Edit, ignore.....see the next post


Dragging up an old post, I think that you were right first time, you can check both 0 pitch and that the swash is level using the folded back blades trick

As per your instructions, set the servo arms level, then eyeball that the swash is level, adjusting the links if needed

Fold the blades back and rotate the head 360' if the gap between the blades change on this rotation, then it means the swash isn't level

If there's a gap but it's just consistent for the 360' rotation then the pitch isn't at zero

Adjust the links accordingly, in practice normally both pitch and level may need adjustment

Last edited by toys2cars2toys; 04-05-2016 at 03:54 PM..
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Old 04-05-2016, 01:33 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Fold the blades back and rotate the head 360' if the gap between the blades change on this rotation, then it means the swash isn't level
Not true. This is a common misconception. Do the blades go out of track every time you input ail/ele and tilt the swash in flight? Nope. They remain in the same plane and, therefore, the distance between the blade tips when folded back will remain the same whether the swash is level or not when spun by hand on the bench. The only "blade fold back" test that works is checking for zero degrees pitch at 1/2 stick after the swash has been leveled via other means like a tripod mainshaft leveler. For any non-believers, try it and see. Get your swash perfectly leveled and zero degrees at 1/2 stick. Tilt the swash on the bench and spin the blades folded back by hand. The tips will stay perfectly parallel with each other all the way around at 1/2 stick-zero pitch but, obviously, the swash isn't level. The gap, or lack thereof, doesn't change one bit with swash tilt.
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Old 04-05-2016, 03:54 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Not true. This is a common misconception. Do the blades go out of track every time you input ail/ele and tilt the swash in flight? ..........
Well, I had to go and check because I was sure, but no I was wrong (it's not often I admit to that!)
I wasn't so much talking about out of track, what I was thinking is, for example if there was aileron on, then as the folded blades are sticking out to the side of the heli, that the aileron would show up as a difference in pitch between the 2 blades, it does....but by exactly the same amount (one goes positive the other goes negative) but the bit I hadn't anticipated, because one blade is folded forward and the other back then that cancel each other out!
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Old 04-05-2016, 04:56 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Well, I had to go and check because I was sure, but no I was wrong (it's not often I admit to that!)
I wasn't so much talking about out of track, what I was thinking is, for example if there was aileron on, then as the folded blades are sticking out to the side of the heli, that the aileron would show up as a difference in pitch between the 2 blades, it does....but by exactly the same amount (one goes positive the other goes negative) but the bit I hadn't anticipated, because one blade is folded forward and the other back then that cancel each other out!
I used to think it worked. I had to check it myself to believe it, too.
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Old 04-08-2016, 01:51 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I give up. I've been through Brian's list of vibration generators and I've replaced everything in the main drive train - blades, grips, spindle, head, main shaft, bearings and main gear.

The massive vibration that I had is gone, but the heli still wants to take off with the cyclic fairly well centered. As hover time increases, I have to give more and more left cyclic to maintain a hover (this is all in Normal mode). Eventually, usually about 90 seconds into a flight, I'm hard up against the left stop with the cyclic and have no way to recover the drift.

I'm pretty sure I've hit all the mechanical parts that could be causing the problem. Next thing I'll try is downloading the latest receiver update - again, rebind, do a calibration and a trim flight and hope for the best.

I did try a trim flight yesterday and got 75 seconds of good stable hover. When I tried to get back on the ground, I was pinned up against the left cyclic limit and the copter flopped over on its right side on landing. I stayed off the TH and tried to store the trim results but I doubt it did much good.
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Old 04-09-2016, 12:25 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Thought I'd re-ignite an old post about trim flight since it is mentioned in this thread.

There has been a great debate in the past as to whether or not this could be done on the bench the same as the 200srx. Well, I was caught short today and needed a quick trim flight, so removed the rotors, put it into trim flight mode and fired it up to 50% throttle on the bench. Put a little bias on the motor, and hey presto, the best trim flight I have ever done. Takes off level. Any one else verify this??
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