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Old 09-11-2015, 06:55 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default REX with Spirit

Anyone else running the new REX receivers with Spirit in the US yet?

Any problems?
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Old 09-12-2015, 12:19 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Setting up a Spirit with a REX7 but have not flown it yet. Only problem I have encountered so far is the EXT port does not work because it only configures as a Jetibox and not EX bus. Also do a factory reset on the Spirit if it is not new when you start setting it up otherwise you might get unexpected behavior.
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Old 09-12-2015, 08:24 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Here is my wiring detail with redundant power to Spirit (2 ports) and rx (4 ports):
Kosmik 200 Master (with ferrite ring) – Spirit AUX
Kosmik 200 Slave (with ferrite ring) – REX7 port 5
ThunderPower 2S-250mah backup/buffer lead#1 - REX7 port 4
ThunderPower 2S-250mah backup/buffer lead#2 - REX7 port 3
JLog2.6GW (red wire removed) - REX7 Ext
Spirit EXBus - REX7 E1

After passing complete functionality testing including rescue, 15 minutes of blades-off spooled up bench time, vibration analysis, failsafe testing, range checking, and the Spirit BEC tester routine, I've still had an incident of sustained un-commanded full collective/cyclic on each of my first 2 flights. Activating 'hold' seemed to clear up the problem (or coincidence, I wasn't waiting for long) and I was able to regain control and auto in. If activating hold 'is' what cleared up the event, why? Strange relationship.

Here is my second flight with incident at end:
Goblin 700 glitch (2 min 26 sec)



These events did not activate motor off ( but I didn’t wait 1.5 seconds either), and did not act like I would expect in hold.

My Jeti and Spirit logs show some signal losses and that is definitely a serious issue, but is it the root cause? There is lost signal recorded in Jeti log after the 2nd landing, but not during or prior to the loss of control in the 2nd flight, or at all in the first flight. My antenna placement on the boom is a proven configuration on my other Goblin 700 running an R3 rx, UDI and VBAR.

Jeti and Kosmik logs confirm solid power available/delivered throughout all testing to date (BEC set to 8.0v with 2S lipo backup/buffer).


At this point, I'm thinking my REX could be a bad unit or it could be related to the Rx firmware and my specific setup?

I recommend only proceeding with great caution.
I'm going to do some more testing today to try and isolate the root cause.

Very, very strange.
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Old 09-12-2015, 01:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Did you post over on the Spirit forum?

Udi12? Or is it exbus all the time? What happens when failsafe occurs on the bench? Are you using the auto level/bailout feature? Could something be triggering the bailout (noise in the protocol)?

I saw the video, indeed, pretty strange.
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Old 09-12-2015, 03:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Definitely troubling.
I did see some un-commanded twitching when I first started setting up the Spirit for EXBus but after doing a factory default on it, things cleared up.

I did fly this unit connected to a Spectrum AR8000 before I got the Jeti system and had no trouble.
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Old 09-12-2015, 04:27 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Yes, I posted on the Spirit-System.com forum as well (not the HF Spirit forum).

This heli has only been EXbus so far. Was planning with the REX to finally have telemetry from JLog and convenience of Spirit-Jeti integration at the same time.

Failsafe on bench results in power off, zero pitch collective and tail in hold (or neutral).

I do have rescue configured as acro and also correctly set/verified
pirouette optimization and geometry. Testing on bench proves correct pitch is applied when activating rescue from right side up or inverted orientations.

REX7 is configured as EXBus and 17ms(default) in device explorer.


Also, this is a new Spirit.


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Old 09-12-2015, 11:51 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I'll be keeping a close eye on this, as I'm just finishing setup of a Spirit + REX7
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Old 09-13-2015, 05:19 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I've been running the Spirit with a Rex 6 on EX Bus and jive/jlog combo for a couple months with no issues aside from the TX not saving the logs from telemetry. It just has a blank name with no file after flight. Haven't done any real troubleshooting with my issue since everything has been flying great.

I realize mine is the slightly smaller 6ch Rex, but I'd think they'd be the same aside from size and channel count. I didn't do any changes to my setup when I went to the Rex aside from adding the Rex .bin to the ds16.

Your issue sounds like a static hit to me. I've never had it happen on my Goblins, but static tends to be localized to geography/weather and particular airframes due to differences in grounding. You might not we it on the bench due to being in AC, something else environmental, or the skids grounding through the table.
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Old 09-13-2015, 07:12 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I thought the same thing at first. Several factors working against that theory though as I examined it.

* Relative humidity on Thursday was near 100% from the rain overnight.
* I soaked my belts in silicone lube over night during build a few days prior.
* Each of the events lasted for more than an instant. I've seen and experienced static hits and while violent in nature like this, they only lasted for a very brief moment.
* There were no checksum errors (or spirit equivalent) in Spirit logs.

Checksum errors in the VBAR log are a smoking gun for a static hit. I am not sure if Spirit will do the same thing or not, but I hope it logs something serious if the data stream from the RX is all jacked up.
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Old 09-13-2015, 08:28 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I'm using 100hz on transmitter and the default frame rate in the REX7 of 17ms. Is this what you guys are using?

We experienced troubles with 50hz on tx and 17ms and UDI when that was first released. Not sure if this is an issue using EXBus and current firmware though.
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Old 09-13-2015, 10:02 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Can you disable rescue on the Spirit? I'm guessing there is a channel assigned to it.

This is a more general question, but is there a way to log the data stream to see the commands from the rx to the fbl? I don't know if there's any product out there that will allow us to do that.

What I'm thinking is by examining the data it could be determined if the rx is actually sending errors to the fbl.

The behavior in both cases you describe is a full collective punch out. Maybe I'm wrong. The video looked that way. This is why I suspect something is triggering the bailout function. It seems to only last a second or two then you're able to recover.

The only way I could think to narrow it down is reduce the amount of channels in the data stream. I don't know if the separation gets larger between channels when the frame rate is increased. Obviously there's some additional latency.

Take what I'm saying like a grain of salt. I'm just throwing some ideas your way.
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Old 09-13-2015, 02:18 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Appreciate it Dmaxison.

Yes, Rescue can easily be disabed on spirit. Activation uses the gyro gain channel. Positive gain = normal tail gain, - gyro=rescue tail gain.

Each event looked like un-cimmanded full collective and also full cyclic until I activated hold. Then I regain complete control. I tried to fly through it the first time for almost a second(an eternity!) before hitting hold. Second time (video) I was a lot quicker on hold since it worked first time. Thus doesnt look like bailout function to me. Collective on rescue is only 60%, and would much less than these events. But could very well be a mixed up data stream like you sugest.

Analyzing the signal stream between REX and Soirit would be very interesting. cdbane scoped the data stream a year ago when some were having unexplained issues. We ended up setting the frame rate up to 20ms and that solved the problem. May work here?

I'm thinking the most likely cause is that I have a defective REX rx. Nothing else explains the signal quality issues logged by my transmitter.

I've flown 3 other helis before and after these 2 bad flights. Great signal quality and no issues on other helis with same transmitter and airspace.
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Old 09-13-2015, 05:32 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Ok, so there was a collective right aileron in the video. I wasn't sure if that was you or the malfunction.
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Old 09-13-2015, 05:35 PM   #14 (permalink)
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How are you logging the signal quality? Just looking at the antenna strength?
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Old 09-13-2015, 07:56 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Jeti logging on transmitter.

Loss of control began near 143 seconds into the logged flight.









Here is the interesting part of the Spirit log prior to and after the incident. The receiver Signal lost message occurs after the heli is on the ground (auto'd into some tall grass).

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Old 09-13-2015, 08:34 PM   #16 (permalink)
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It looks the poor signal quality is from after you auto'd it in to the tall grass. I assume you replaced the servo lead from the RX>FBL?

What does "cyclic ring activated" mean?
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Old 09-13-2015, 09:09 PM   #17 (permalink)
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That means that the cyclic was at it's maximum tilt angle and the heli was unable to perform what the FBL requested.

Whatever possessed my heli did it in a big way
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Old 09-14-2015, 12:13 AM   #18 (permalink)
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A couple of comments.

First on the signal quality. I am not surprised that the signal quality and antenna levels drop of after you have auto'd into the long grass. 2.4Ghz does not have much penetration and having the long grass, which has a high water content, between you and the model will cut the signal down.

I haven't used ExBus yet but I did have some issues with PPM and UDI on one of my models and I think it was to do with wire run between the Rx and FBL. I was getting a spike on the throttle channel that was causing the ESC to go into Soft start mode. After re-routing the wire and keeping it as short as possible the problem became much less and has almost dissapeared.

So maybe try moving the Rx as close as possible to the FBL and make a custom cable just long enough for the job and keep it away from other wires as much as possible. I guess you could try running ferrite rings on the cable as another option but I think keeping it short and away from the other wires is best practice. It would be worth trying as maybe noise in this cable is causing the signals to get interfered with.

//Dennis.
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Old 09-14-2015, 04:51 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I also want to use the same setup, excluding the Kosmic. I want to use Jive.
Can you explain me how the Jlog gets it's power? Is it powered by the kosmik with the blue cable? Because you haven't explained that.

Keep us updated please.
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Old 09-14-2015, 06:52 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Thanks guys.

Lars,
JLog gets power only through the blue cable to Kosmik.

Dennis,

Good thoughts.
On the tall grass, with the rain just a few hours before, and high humidity, this is likely the case.

Yup, I remember the lessons we learned together when we went through this before.

I'm using a custom made, short as possible connection between the Spirit and REX already which are mounted back to back on the Goblin FBL tray. Also using the toroidal cores on master and slave to Kosmik. The Kosmik never restarted and power delivery was never interrupted until I activated hold each time. The Spirit never restarted either.

The custom wire I am using for EXbus to FBL is a Spirit wire and not my usual 20g HD wire I have used on all other models. This wire is split on the FBL side with the signal lead in the far left socket and the power/ground in the 2nd to left in the pic. This is required for EXbus and Spirit/Jeti integration. Each of these servo leads has dummy pins in it in the positions with no wires to secure it properly. I have routed this wiring in similar fashion with no errors and the same Spirit cable between R5 rx and Spirit on my Goblin 380. Using UDI there though and not a split end on Spirit side as described above for EXbus.

Also, I created new models in my Jeti and also Spirit for this config (not copy/update).

Zex just replied that they are all using the default settings on REX like me and specifically the 17ms frame rate, so that seems to be OK. I assume they are using the same Spirit wire to connect the REX, since I got it from them.

Maybe routing of the FBL-rx connection is an issue as you suggest?
I've already created a custom short HD wire for this like I used on my UDI to VBAR and I could route it away from the bundle.

Want to be sure though. I haven't been able to recreate the problem outside of flight, and that's not good at all.
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