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Electric Motors Winding and Repair Electric Motors Winding and Repair Discussion


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Old 04-22-2019, 07:24 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Old 04-22-2019, 07:52 PM   #82 (permalink)
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You see here in a PMDC motor the Ferro fluid made the usage of amperage more efficient. You see higher torque with less amperage.
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Old 04-24-2019, 11:46 AM   #83 (permalink)
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Hi Freaks,
Please don't make the mistake like someone has of posting and using my motor and graph as a benchmark to wind an antiquated SL winding system. It will not be more efficient or make more torque than the shifted topology that have the added boost of reluctance torque with higher working and much lower sub harmonic levels. To hear them speak on Ferrofluid is amazing. Using it and the shifted topology makes the motor run cooler and able to maintain a higher continuous power than any traditional winds that have been presented here. Where did you hear it first... Hopefully they copy and paste that this motor is not worth copying if your actually at the cutting edge. For some that is not sure it will be okay to do and will make good power.

http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...=1#post4778111

The breakthrough is someone there wraps 8 turns of 1.828mm on the 700Mx with the silly crossover wire in place.

Vg
1B.
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Old 04-24-2019, 05:26 PM   #84 (permalink)
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As compared the SL attachment that precedes it Figure 6 clearly shows the SL is not the best move for 24N14P and that the new DL topology is so much better sub harmonically. 28 poles is just a multiple of 14. Look for blues clues.


You can see that the shift attenuates the Fundamental but it boost nearly all the other subs. The DL shift on the other hand is much more harmonically clean so it could be more efficientt if applied correctly.
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Old 04-26-2019, 08:15 AM   #85 (permalink)
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Unfortunately the overcite about the Align continues, Now ive supposedly said it does 35kW. Its never been said, Go back and review the graph I said 12 kw.Please don't consider anything but the truth. The onderdonk value is for two 1.8 conductor not the motor and its implicitly stated in other places that the china iron does not likely have the material integrity to push this far but the NEU could. Good luck to their understanding of my clear words.

The original post is here for anyone to read. Its misinformation when you pull from here to post incorrect assumptions about what I do in other places. You should ask me here directly not incorrectly speculate on what I do in dead threads I've left

Why are we still talking about my antiquated motor winds when this is so much better. This is old news and the rest is fake.The truth has been presented here. There's something better than anything ever presented here by anyone including me.

Take it or leave it. Why speculate on the 1,200 dollar pro 20S 300 ampere HV APD you do not have that is here in my hands, but clearly by ohms law 84 volts x 400 amperes is 33.6kW at it's max. Please continue because I know its hard for you to accept the graph or that the drive it is lighter and more powerful than a YGE 320 and 400 and can turn a 14 pole over 200,000 rpm. Im sorry but it is. Such gross over cite is awful information into a forum, even there, Someone may take it and it is totally wrong. Please copy and paste this into your forum there.

"Hallo Thomas,
wie du siehst tauchen die Trolle immer dann auf wenn Hubert etwas mehr zeigt und die Reaktionen sind immer die gleichen. Selber haben diese Supermänner die vorgeschickt als Lakaien Hubert angreifen und versuchen zu Ärgern um ihn aus den Foren zu sperren nicht die Bohne zum herzeigen. Den die Daten die Hubert zeigt sind der Truppe ein Dorn im Auge ,da sie sehr viel besser sind wie ihre Eigenwurschtlerei. Speziell Du Renè hast eigentlich noch gar nichts gezeigt was hier im Motorenbereich in irgendeiner weise was Innovatives wäre.Dur schreibst wirklich nur um herumzustänkern. Du hast dir die von Hubert gezeigten Methoden weder angesehen noch jemals ausgetestet ."

~Christian Lucas~



Vg
TSA

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Old 04-26-2019, 09:24 AM   #86 (permalink)
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Default ξ is 0.96593 :)

In a performance hydro with 10s lipo @ 9800 mah and a castle 240. Prop wizard selected an ABC 1918 as the most efficient prop for the setup.
Resultant:
28,221 rpm
141 amps
4,955.78 watts Pin
4,728.58 watts Pout
run time 4.15 minutes
est speed 79.20 mph or 127.46 Km/h
Eff. 95.42%

Hmm...this was posted june 23 2016!!! definitely old news.....why not stand front and center and talk to me about it in an open forum? Do you realize I can easily best this with one more turn? A 152% increase in copper with the single tooth winding system. Do 8 turns of 1.828mm your way on this motor and the truth of how much easier it is my way comes clear. You also will not even be able to do this wind posted on this motor if your not at a lathe to do some bell mods. If u how you can forget tuning it to my specs it anyway... Im out here with first hand experience! And it is also your choice to choose amateur advice over the professionals.

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Old 04-27-2019, 06:21 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Kuni since you and your friends keep dragging this I post here into the east proxy let me say this and be done with it. From the things you say maybe for you there is a language barrier for graph reading. No motor mouth would charge 35kW to this graph because like we said here efficiency governs power. The graph simply widens a domain for relative viewing of of the regression. We know we don't run 768 continuous amps do you with your motors? You cannot be making sense of the words either. The 95% efficiency sweetspot occurs between 119-251 amperes sir can you read the graph? The words also say well over 12kW in this area where you get 35kW from? That is no where written in this post and accurate interpretation of a graph maybe you leave it to the professional. When you report better things I do don't make it fake news due to your inaccurate reading or graph interpretation manifested through the critical oral assessment of my wind when the one you show proudly is mere 30% fill. You heavily criticize Lehner and NEU motors but you have nothing superior in you hands. It is something to behold for you that china iron can shine better than what you got in your hands. In your silliness you talk about people not wanting flying boats to de-rate the performance record of the graph but that's what you fly, Boat planes.........


If you didnt know a boat prop in the Water is a excellent load to judge a motors performance. Have you ever hear of a water brake. Fe boaters also fly their boats quite often its called a blow over . Here is the hobby in Germany and its much more exciting and under a hood it takes more no how to avoid the smoke that any speed flying in fresh air. We pull more amperage and make more power. This sports action, sound, and sight, is much more exhilarating and exciting than speed flying for us. That's why its our choice to be FE boaters. If the motor does this in an boat it can definitely in a plane stuck out in open air. Now you build one from a pile of wood or composites with your motor and come visit me or Christian on the water anytime. In the air the ADP and emaxx shark is coming for you! You keep asking for verifications but we cant even get a report of ξ from the king. A fast vehicle on the water is not so easy.


Please realize the onderdonk ( 1 s) 1.828mm is 768 amperes so 2 of them is a 2 second pull on the conductors at that. Yes the motor can take this for two seconds then like what you rate if the materials hold. @ seconds really is an impractical measure since your surges last for about 10 seconds which is Preece value. That is 396 amperes for twin 1.828mm. If nothing else fails like Magnets, insulation, it should be able to do 19.958 kW in 2 seconds quite easily id hope for 10 because the conductor can do it. The body just need to hold and that where the cooling Christian comes in. Or us with motors with higher temperature rated materials like we have in Lehner and Neumotors.


These incorrect assertions that come from you and your team originate where Ill never know.


You must think building these boats to look and fuction like this is a cake walk. Can you do it? I do.

FE Scale Boaters in Germany
RC Powerboat meeting Germany (July 2018 Part 6) Hydroplane CT 05 (1 min 59 sec)


Heres a clue of the boat action in the USA that you think is marginal. Take note of the how the boats look and the racing action here FE boaters enjoy. These boats cost more than many of your speed planes to prepare. The paint and paint labor alone on many of them is over $1000.00. I don't think you know a lot about FE boats or their power systems do you? You think those planes are special man some of these boats take several years to build in labor and static detail.


Scale Boaters In the USA
R/C Unlimited Hydroplanes Chehalis, WA 2017 (4 min 58 sec)

Rm .oo5 ohms
Kv 824
Io 3.27 amps @22.5 volts including radial fan load.
Weight 448.8 grams

Here it is on 12s in the FE boat cal.

ABC 1818 calculated as most efficient prop in its database for performance hydro @ 12s lipo 9800 mah

33,940 rpm
153 amps
Pin 6.394 kilowatts
Pout 6.125 kilowatts
Run time 3.85 minutes
Est speed 90.12 mph or 145.03408 km/h
Eff. 95.80 %



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Old 04-27-2019, 10:54 PM   #88 (permalink)
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What was posted is the efficiency doesn't start to drop off from its highest point till 268 amperes. @ 268 amperes the power is 13.5kW on 12 [email protected] 95% I calculate 12.939 kW and that is above 12kW . From here more and more heat is part of its regressive efficiency state till smoke so developmentally I don't dwell out on those maximum fringes too much. I'd rather my setup work around the sweet spot. In an oval trim boat.

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Old 04-28-2019, 02:58 AM   #89 (permalink)
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Forgive me.
I assumed any copper wire winder has heard of Preece and Onderdonk.

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/d...rspl.1883.0133


https://pcdandf.com/pcdesign/index.p...cb-design-1507


https://ultracad.com/articles/reprints/stauffacher.pdf

Rene Kunipatz, https://www.rclineforum.de/forum/boa...ml#post4025790
I'm reading you motor review review on me. Can we talk about it?
Are you sure this is all theory?
Where did you get this information than no engineers use these values to make determinations that are fairly accurate?I'm one here using it. Who told you that Helmut? I doubt that . What this is about is Christian Erdt posting the page from here using my motor to say we copy or it confirms Ralph's SPS will work as expected but he wont even report the Kw but you review me this way. My constants are clearly posted. Brave heart Anyway.... Are you positive that I currently have no real log or other data from other engineers that have efficiencies that agree?

R/C Hydroplane Pit Tour - 2018 RCUnlimiteds Bernie Little Memorial (15 min 15 sec)

Christian if you're out there this is a good a year to maiden the circus with a high pole outrunner. I have a very nice drive sink to immerse in the fluid. And its's been 20 plus years. Lets do active canards . What surface radio should I get I want a multiple channel stick radio with a detect throttle stick. I may ask Albert AT to use it as a plug and do carbon fiber.We had the discussion already. PM me lets have fun with this.

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Old 04-28-2019, 12:02 PM   #90 (permalink)
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"Nobody wants either. All we want is that even ONE of your full-mouthed assertions will be implemented by you. Your river barriers, the sheets made by your children using jigsaw saws, the metal sheets that have been finished in the garden by your hydrogen annealing furnace ... there is always only a sketch thrown out on sausage paper like that of an 8-year-old in elementary school, at most a piece of handicraft. Where are all the finished engines with which you have checked your theses? Or do you still leave that to others? That your friend Hans Lehner can do so much ... where are the proofs, the test bed logs? Nobody takes away your lousy claims: stupid:

And apparently you still have a problem with orders of magnitude: You compare engines for man-carrying aircraft with our model engines, set cooling concepts for megawatt machines. Where is the relevance? Who do you want to fool with it again? Who in this forum should apply this please? As a reminder, you are in a model-making forum, in the sub-division (model) electric motors. Not power plants ...

Greetings Rene"

And Rene you're reading here. Is it my fault that Preece value times happen to be in compliance with your wot pull times through the traps?To me that's elegant how good always wins in the end. Why heckle the professional assessments of the matters? Have you ever considered just listening?If not why continue on this way? What is it then your goal to achieve? Defaming professionals and their opinions or having a better motor for your model?

YT
Hubert.

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Old 04-29-2019, 12:27 AM   #91 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1BOHO View Post
Hallo,

You dont have to Lucas, without assistance I have no real intentions with Lehner only curious read why.

For Americans is a 19%VAT. Then 1 euro = 1.12 Usd so alot of your cash goes to nothing. Look how. Its 989.00 Euros. So 1110.05 USD plus 19%VAT!!!!! man thats 210.91 plus the additional 121.05 difference thats 331.96 USD that goes to nothing... Thats a real problem for me. A person would rather have the 331.96 usd goto purchasing more motor not just be wasted in our struggling economy. While things are this way I really think only the wealthy will even consider. Most will pay the 999.00 flat and get the 15kw scorpion thats what a stock one is actually rated at. then use there saved 331.96 and put it towards special edition model a better rewind or a better ESC . Anything but waste it in a bunch of red tape. I personally cannot justify 331.00 dollars going to absolutely nothing. You get what you pay for but in these cases I get nothing for 331.00

Love the apparent quality of the products but for me too much money is wasted getting them here to the USA I'm afraid.
331 dlls. Good for A good pair of shoes made in USA.

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Old 04-29-2019, 02:03 AM   #92 (permalink)
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Excuse me Manuel,
You must be mistaken

I'm running a hand wound by me based on what I believe NEU outrunner in my boat.
And Im not an advertiser for either if thats what you suggest. I don't need to be both companies numerous world records in rc speak for themselves.

Scale boat $2,000.00
APD PRO HV 24S 300 AMP 1,200.00
Special Hand wound NEU 4638 $500.00
Running project total paid for so far. 3,700.00 USD im sure the finished project will be upward of $6,000.00 in part and labor.

If you want a link to my site where all that goes down ill give it to you. Do you want a link?

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Old 04-29-2019, 03:31 AM   #93 (permalink)
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What happens is that I go very late reading this post.
I just go in on the post that I put paste.

When I read a savings of 331 dlls, I could only think about what those beautiful Truman Boot Co. American boots cost.
And if I know I'm totally off topic.
Sorry.
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Old 04-29-2019, 05:53 AM   #94 (permalink)
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No problem. Have you wound and tested a shifted system or wye+delta machine?
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Old 04-29-2019, 11:55 AM   #95 (permalink)
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Maybe this wound termination.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...Star-Connector
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Old 04-29-2019, 02:35 PM   #96 (permalink)
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I have the right schemes and have wound them I dont need this. I Asked have you wound and tested the schemes detailed here in my post?


BTW Manuel the Scorpion 4035 800Kv is an approved motor for s and t sport hydro and many went away from it for
the fastest setups because it runs much hotter than the Neu and Lehner inrunners with liquid cooling. In the our sport there really is no comparison to them other than Plettenburg for efficiency and power!

Since you have time you should work on implementing the new schemes in you wind cal.

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Old 04-29-2019, 04:19 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Do you own a scorpion? I guess you haven't wound it this way but since you are here with interest here is the fist step you can follow. Look it's a scorpion 4035 . Single coil sl winding of the Delta in 1.5mm. The Wye will have less turn for shorter coils. The fill will be greater than the troupe's.

In the attachments are what typically power Scale boats. What I'm winding and testing is none of the three.

1530 NEU and 2280 Lehner
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Old 04-29-2019, 06:44 PM   #98 (permalink)
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I had RC line appropriately lock the thread so if there is a discussion to be had on what we do here it should be here where we are.


Vg
TSA
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Old 04-30-2019, 05:06 PM   #99 (permalink)
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The liquid cooling and flux barrier test were not done on motors in the mW realm. They were done on motors with very similar power as what we run. The PMFSM for instance was 50 mm and the power lever 2,500 watts. If it was a 10 watt motor maybe you dissipate only 1 watt. If its 100 watts maybe u only dissipate 10. This wouldn't be a good reason to not pursue the proven benefits they give.
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Old 06-14-2019, 11:29 AM   #100 (permalink)
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I've been working on a new brushless motor performance model which may be more accurate than my previous one ( which I know was flawed but it was accurate "enough" ) and allow for some interesting prediction capabilities.

As a result, I'm also on the hunt for people with Kontronik motors who have access to nice lab equipment to get some measurements for me.

Additionally, I'm very interested in data from motors of a "family", ie, motors where the only difference is the wind.
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