Nano CPS issues in idle up/stunt mode

[silver93t]

Hi. I'm getting back into the sport after some time off. Currently I'm messing with a Blade Nano CPS that is a number of years old. I'm a halfway decent pilot and am able to fly around in circles, forward, backwards, hover, and basically put the helicopter anywhere I want. I'm trying to get into doing some stunts and thats where my issues start. I am using a D6Xi and set it up according to the Nano manual. The heli flies fine in normal mode. I can also put it into idle up and it also flies as it should. However when switching to stunt mode, no matter what the heli will immediately summersault forward and crash into the ground. I'm getting frustrated because in normal mode it limits the pitch and bank angles so you cannot really do any tricks. Any advise would be appreciated before I move onto a newer machine.

[Thomas.Heiss]

Is the swashplate level in 3D/acro/agility mode?

You can't take off from the ground?
Pretty heavy drift on nick or roll?
Or does it suddenly tip over?

Are you sure that the board / gyro isn't corrupted or that there are any vibrations?

Normally a 3-axis mode without accelerometers is easy to get it working right; 6G stability mode is where I get a pretty bad swash tilt after take off with tendency to crash into the wall or flying away from me.
Hardly controllable, even on 100% DualRate.

3G (3-axis) on the K110 works fine, with a level board and leveled swashplate.

Did you find a solution?

My guess: Your swashplate, zero pitch is not correctly configured so it heavily drifts forward.
But I can't explain tip overs, if you have that.

You need to do swashplate leveling in acro/agility/3D mode with Hold switch on and ZERO pitch at mid stick, not in N/Fm0 where stability is on.

[silver93t]

I gave up on it. Bought a Blade 330S and quickly found its flight controller is trash. Probably had 100 hours into setting it up and trying different things. It will start off flying fine, then progressively drift in a random direction more and more until it is unflyable. After 2 crashes/repairs and hours with tech support including sending the heli back for diagnosis, I'm done with Blade. If you search around the issue is well documented. Picked up an OMP M2 and love it. Its flown perfectly out of the box since day 1. Even after sheering a tail rotor that resisted in a pretty hard crash, it flies perfectly after I repaired it. I just wish OMP would release something lager already. Maybe when I have time I'll go back to the 330s and replace the garbage spectrum flight controller with something different.

[JimJW]

One of the transmitter files for the nanoCPS or mCPS had trim set in one of the flight modes. As a result when you switched modes it would start pirouetting when you switched modes…

[Thomas.Heiss]

Hi,

oh no, too bad.

Yes, I read about some issues on the 330s and new Fbl.
USP is over 200 Euros.

They also use it on the Fusion 180 Smart, Fusion 360 Smart and Fusion 480 Bnf Afaik.

Thought they would have fixed the issues meanwhile, updated the firmware, sent you 2-3 new Fbls to test it out.

Does it happen on the 330s in stability mode or acro/agility mode (3 axis) or whatever they call it nowadays?

Hard to be believe ALL of their Fbl units all faulty, but yeah, chips and sensors could generate a problem (8 always hear about things like tip overs on Fusion270 with older FC, roll of death, etc.).
Kinda scary.

Especially sucks when it's more random or it first works and with time flying it doesn't work anymore reliable.

I'm extra careful and don't buy anything anymore which I didn't verify, have seen it working, test hovering.
But I would run into the very same issues if it was me.

No idea why nobody sent you 2-3 other BNF helis for full replacement to sequentially test them through.

Maybe has something to do with the cyclics, vibrations, etc.
Is a servo motor or servo poti going bad?

With Blade sometimes you have to throw away the electronics and install other better or more reliable things.
Especially Eflite motors (shaft, bearing). Total disaster in 4503D/450x V1. Hope they have improved it in V2, 330X, 330s.
But yeah, try a Scorpion or something.
Escs you can keep most of the time; on the Blade 550x Pro an Esc was the major cause of a big crash for someone else I met at the LHS.
My Esc in the B450 still works.

Also had to fight with gyro (G210) and one reason was a too tight tail belt on my B450.

Maybe the BL main motor (spinning engine bell), main blades or tail generate a bad vibration.
Are they balanced?
Who knows if it's really a faulty Fbl controller..

What a shame you don't have any luck.
The previous 450x was a reliable mechanical platform, had a good tail hold, only the Ds76 and H3050 servos were not the greatest.

Could it be that you have a faulty transmitter with bad potis??
Hmm, no, can't be. Your M2 works.

Maybe install a Msh Brain2 or Spirit2/GT Tbl into the 330s and also replace the three cyclics with Kst Ds215Mg V3 or similar ones with Titanium gears / hardened steel.
Not the weaker MG Spektrum H3050/3055.

Hope main frame bearings are still OK?

I know how you must feel.
In this Rc hobby and heli niche you definitely need to have nerves of steel.


Had you opened a 330s thread before?
In this case I will move my comment.

Happy flying.

[Thomas.Heiss]

Originally Posted by silver93t

I am using a D6Xi and set it up according to the Nano manual. Any advise would be appreciated before I move onto a newer machine.

Oh, the Dx6i.
It is stone old, pretty dead horse.
It can have poti stick problems.


Try it first on the Sim.
If helis fly strange and crooked or drift then you'll have your answer.
It can be the transmitter sticks.

Maybe you have bought a new one as this thread is from last year.

Can't believe you fly the new M2 with a stone old radio.

Better get a new one (3-way flight mode switch, rescue/trainer button) and install Jonas' model setup files for rescue (OpenTx, EdgeTx).
There also is an Omp thread for newer Spektrum Gen2/Gen3 transmitters (sequencer, timer,..) to make rescue work with the 6G mode.

The Dx6i firmware is way too old for all of this. Even a Dx6G3/Dx6e has a 3-way FM switch.

WARNING:
Beware of the timer bug in the Dx6i.

[Thomas.Heiss]

Originally Posted by JimJW

One of the transmitter files for the nanoCPS or mCPS had trim set in one of the flight modes.

In the Gen2/Gen3 .Spm model file you mean?

The Dx6i doesn't offer a sd-card slot and the firmware is very outdated.

Which means you can't download .Spm model setup files and import them.

You need a newer radio with second generation Airware.

Trim steps don't come from the Blade manual and subtrim shall not be programmed on nick/roll (Elev/Ail) channels.

[Thomas.Heiss]

Originally Posted by silver93t

I gave up on it. ... and hours with tech support including sending the heli back for diagnosis, I'm done with Blade. Maybe when I have time I'll go back to the 330s and replace the garbage spectrum flight controller with something different.

Did you send the Dx6i back to HH too?
Have they changed sticks (potis)?

Are you 1000% sure it is not the transmitter which is the garbage piece?

The Dx6i was outdated when I got started in 2012; had the silver Dx8G1.

Maybe the deadzone on the Omp M2 is high enough so you don't notice bad potis.

Full Fbl control units are way more sensitive around the middle and don't have a very large deadzone.
With a faulty stick poti it is explainable that a 330s Fbl would lean to one side and the heli has a bad drift.

Send it in or better try a new transmitter.

This doesn't mean that there aren't issues on a 330s and newer Fbls when they brought it out.

You need a Fbl setup GUI which shows on a computer what channel values around mid stick and full range are being sent to it from the radio.

No idea if the Spektrum Fbl has this channel monitor on a PC application.


On Tarot Zyx I first had to calibrate the radio channels with subtrim/min/max travel adjust so the readings where correct (-100, 0, +100) in the radio channel dialog.

By default they were not correct.
But the Fbl manual hopefully explains this how to setup a radio to it for the first time.

If you check the Omp sub forum you will come across threads which talk about a higher deadzone programmed into the Omp Fbl.

No, I'm not sure if it's the real issue, but could be as well or two things play together.

[silver93t]

Originally Posted by JimJW

One of the transmitter files for the nanoCPS or mCPS had trim set in one of the flight modes. As a result when you switched modes it would start pirouetting when you switched modes…

That would make sense. I only flew the Nano CPS on the D6xi. I have not tried it on my Nx8.

[silver93t]

Originally Posted by Thomas.Heiss

Hi,

oh no, too bad.

Yes, I read about some issues on the 330s and new Fbl.
USP is over 200 Euros.

They also use it on the Fusion 180 Smart, Fusion 360 Smart and Fusion 480 Bnf Afaik.

Thought they would have fixed the issues meanwhile, updated the firmware, sent you 2-3 new Fbls to test it out.

Does it happen on the 330s in stability mode or acro/agility mode (3 axis) or whatever they call it nowadays?

Hard to be believe ALL of their Fbl units all faulty, but yeah, chips and sensors could generate a problem (8 always hear about things like tip overs on Fusion270 with older FC, roll of death, etc.).
Kinda scary.

Especially sucks when it's more random or it first works and with time flying it doesn't work anymore reliable.

I'm extra careful and don't buy anything anymore which I didn't verify, have seen it working, test hovering.
But I would run into the very same issues if it was me.

No idea why nobody sent you 2-3 other BNF helis for full replacement to sequentially test them through.

Maybe has something to do with the cyclics, vibrations, etc.
Is a servo motor or servo poti going bad?

With Blade sometimes you have to throw away the electronics and install other better or more reliable things.
Especially Eflite motors (shaft, bearing). Total disaster in 4503D/450x V1. Hope they have improved it in V2, 330X, 330s.
But yeah, try a Scorpion or something.
Escs you can keep most of the time; on the Blade 550x Pro an Esc was the major cause of a big crash for someone else I met at the LHS.
My Esc in the B450 still works.

Also had to fight with gyro (G210) and one reason was a too tight tail belt on my B450.

Maybe the BL main motor (spinning engine bell), main blades or tail generate a bad vibration.
Are they balanced?
Who knows if it's really a faulty Fbl controller..

What a shame you don't have any luck.
The previous 450x was a reliable mechanical platform, had a good tail hold, only the Ds76 and H3050 servos were not the greatest.

Could it be that you have a faulty transmitter with bad potis??
Hmm, no, can't be. Your M2 works.

Maybe install a Msh Brain2 or Spirit2/GT Tbl into the 330s and also replace the three cyclics with Kst Ds215Mg V3 or similar ones with Titanium gears / hardened steel.
Not the weaker MG Spektrum H3050/3055.

Hope main frame bearings are still OK?

I know how you must feel.
In this Rc hobby and heli niche you definitely need to have nerves of steel.


Had you opened a 330s thread before?
In this case I will move my comment.

Happy flying.

I spent over 100 hours with the 330s. I flew it with both the included Dxs radio and the Nx8. No difference. I have done multiple setups, swashplate leveling, tried different blades, messed with the SAFE attitude settings, nothing resolves the issue. I suppose I could make a configuration that keeps it in normal mode with SAFE off. However that defeats the whole purpose of having a helicopter like this to learn flying with a larger machine.

The 330s itself went back to Blade for diagnosis after a crash due to the these issues. I was told a swashplate link was stripped and replaced, then the heli test flown at Blade successfully. When I got it back it flew the same as before with the heavy and unpredictable drift. The Nx8 event went back at one point because I dropped it and broke one of the gimbals. It worked the same after as before.


When I get time I will probably rip out the garbage Spektrum electronics and replace it with a Brain 2 or similar.

[Thomas.Heiss]

Another Fbl is a good idea to verify.

I would also get rid of the Eflite motor.
Maybe something is wrong with the rotor / stator bell and it generates vibrations which drive the Spektrum Fbl nuts?

Shaft and crappy bearings inside the motor also can generate problems.

If you change the Fbl don't fly with the three cyclic servos.
Maybe they are faulty too.

[silver93t]

Originally Posted by Thomas.Heiss

Another Fbl is a good idea to verify.

I would also get rid of the Eflite motor.
Maybe something is wrong with the rotor / stator bell and it generates vibrations which drive the Spektrum Fbl nuts?

Shaft and crappy bearings inside the motor also can generate problems.

If you change the Fbl don't fly with the three cyclic servos.
Maybe they are faulty too.

Agreed. If I end up changing the electronics I will do all the servos as well. But again, all this defeats the purpose of buying a machine that should be ready to fly out of the box. With the repairs and extra parts I've purchased I'm already $1000+ into a heli that should have been $500 ready to go. At that price there are just better options.