Neuron Governor Setup / Recommendations - Page 2 - HeliFreak
Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Electronics Support > EZNOV


EZNOV EZNOV Vendor Sponsored Support Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-22-2016, 08:43 AM   #21 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 109
 

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Otranto
Default

Hello governor 3196 hz on goblin 700 is It normal,,, because at 60%gas have 2300 Rpm
Spoolup 50%gas

Inviato dal mio LG-D855 utilizzando Tapatalk
Geco73 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-22-2016, 04:12 PM   #22 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 4,537
 

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Melbourne Oz
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungraman View Post
Just created magic smoke while trying to adjust endpoints, not good. Looks like Scorpion motor and 1st stage pulley wheel has gone.

Gonna be a while before it gets back in the air .....
Bugger, you shouldn't be able to do anything to the system that would cause that. If the motor went did you check the bolts to make sure they weren't too long and touching the winds or that something didn't get into the motor while you were working on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airagitator View Post
@ Thunder Fighter

Very good tutorial! Thats how it works.
Thanks, it's worked well for me. I'm going to try and help Thomas by seeing if I can add the info to the Wiki.

//Dennis.
__________________
SOXOS DB7 : SOXOS 600 : SOXOS 550 : SOXOS F3C
Protos 380 : SAB Goblin 700 nightflyer : Jeti DS-16 : Mini Protos FBL Stretch : Logo 600
www.soxosaustralia.com.au & VTX blades
Thunder Fighter is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-25-2016, 05:22 AM   #23 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Default

If it helps anyone:

Trying to calibrate your ESC to the Neuron fed by BEC using Bluetooth is probably a bad idea (you'll probably get an inadvertent spool-up):

I was trying to calibrate the ESC to my Neuron Throttle output using Bluetooth, but I was unable to enter the ESC programming mode (by starting up with the TX throttle fully up). The symptoms was that the swashplate made its little initialization dance, and then the motor would spool up (no damage, blades off and other precautions taken). (Probably because the ESC finished initializing before the the Neuron (powered via the BEC from the ESC), and in lack of a "full throttle" signal, it would just skip entering programming mode.

The solution to this was simply to use USB instead, to keep the Neuron powered and already initialized when the ESC was powered. Of course, if you use a separate FBL/RX-battery, the RX/Neuron will also stay powered on and you won't run into this problem.
Avitus is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-26-2016, 03:16 AM   #24 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Germany
Default

Thanks!
Airagitator is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-30-2016, 12:39 AM   #25 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
Default

I just did my spool up with blades on and then rechecked the gov calibration had logged a figure . It is at 1872Hz. How do you know if this is set correctly ? I just spooled up to 55 % throttle at zero pitch but I sort of forgot to stop and couldn't help myself from do a short hover for about 10 seconds. Is this going to have stuffed up the calibration?
What is it even calibrating? Is it the fbl unit taking a measurement of resistance of the esc/battery system or what ?

It's no trouble really to clear the log and redo it with out the hover but now I'm left begging the question of what the calibration does ?
__________________
Jason

Synergy E7, Goblin 630, Goblin 380 KSE, KDS chase 360,Trex 700N, Futaba 18mz.
Jaso is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-30-2016, 06:43 AM   #26 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 109
 

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Otranto
Default

Model?

Inviato dal mio LG-D855 utilizzando Tapatalk
Geco73 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-30-2016, 07:00 AM   #27 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 4,537
 

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Melbourne Oz
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaso View Post
I just did my spool up with blades on and then rechecked the gov calibration had logged a figure . It is at 1872Hz. How do you know if this is set correctly ? I just spooled up to 55 % throttle at zero pitch but I sort of forgot to stop and couldn't help myself from do a short hover for about 10 seconds. Is this going to have stuffed up the calibration?
What is it even calibrating? Is it the fbl unit taking a measurement of resistance of the esc/battery system or what ?

It's no trouble really to clear the log and redo it with out the hover but now I'm left begging the question of what the calibration does ?
Instead of putting in the gear ratio and motor poles the Neuron uses the throttle percentage it outputs and the RPM reading it gets back on the first spool as the scaling factor. It should be fine as is.

Just a note that whenever you clear it and set it up again you may need to adjust your curves in the TX to get the same headspeed that you were running as this number works with your Tx curve to set the headspeed.

//Dennis.
__________________
SOXOS DB7 : SOXOS 600 : SOXOS 550 : SOXOS F3C
Protos 380 : SAB Goblin 700 nightflyer : Jeti DS-16 : Mini Protos FBL Stretch : Logo 600
www.soxosaustralia.com.au & VTX blades
Thunder Fighter is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-30-2016, 07:57 AM   #28 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
Default

Thanks Dennis.
I did clear it and redo the spool up just to see what difference it would make. It ended up changing from 1827 initial figure with the hover to1821without hover just a spool up to 0 pitch at 55% throttle. I stated to wrong figure in the other post.
So Dennis tell me if I have this right, If you don't use the same 50-60% throttle curve you will have a different throttle rpm for a given throttle percentage when re doing the calibration after clearing the check box? How is the required 50-60 % throttle required for calibration figured out? Does the state of charge of the lipo matter?
__________________
Jason

Synergy E7, Goblin 630, Goblin 380 KSE, KDS chase 360,Trex 700N, Futaba 18mz.
Jaso is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-30-2016, 02:41 PM   #29 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 4,537
 

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Melbourne Oz
Default

I'm not really sure Jason, I've only ever calibrated on a full pack but know when I redid calibration at one stage I had to reset my Tx curves to get back to my headspeeds on the tach.

I prefer the method where you set gear ratio and poles and then set the headspeed in the software rather than having to get the tach out. I think Thomas did it to make it so you don't need to know your ratio or motor specs. At the very least I would like to be able to manually enter the value so I can keep it the same after I get everything where I want it.

//Dennis.
__________________
SOXOS DB7 : SOXOS 600 : SOXOS 550 : SOXOS F3C
Protos 380 : SAB Goblin 700 nightflyer : Jeti DS-16 : Mini Protos FBL Stretch : Logo 600
www.soxosaustralia.com.au & VTX blades
Thunder Fighter is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-30-2016, 06:05 PM   #30 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
Default

Cool thanks again Dennis.

I'm very keen to get this in the air now and see how the fbl unit feels and tunes. I've had a pretty wild guess at some initial gain settings being that I'm using the neuron on a new KSE 3 blade G380 which seem to be a little problematic for initial tune to say the least, if you believe the reports on forums of late.
I'm guessing the lack of normal dampening on this head most likely is causing some growing pains in the little size Goblin. Spooling with no blades doing initial checks the airframe felt very vibe free and smooth so I'm hoping this is a good indicator for the Neuron to work with and get a nice tune faster rather than slower.
__________________
Jason

Synergy E7, Goblin 630, Goblin 380 KSE, KDS chase 360,Trex 700N, Futaba 18mz.
Jaso is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-03-2016, 03:09 AM   #31 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: France
Default

Hello,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder Fighter View Post
I'm not really sure Jason, I've only ever calibrated on a full pack but know when I redid calibration at one stage I had to reset my Tx curves to get back to my headspeeds on the tach.

I prefer the method where you set gear ratio and poles and then set the headspeed in the software rather than having to get the tach out. I think Thomas did it to make it so you don't need to know your ratio or motor specs. At the very least I would like to be able to manually enter the value so I can keep it the same after I get everything where I want it.

//Dennis.
What about being able to modify the figure in the software, and I give you (and put on the wiki) the formula to calculate the correct value depending on your setup ?

Thomas.
Otatiaro is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-03-2016, 03:53 AM   #32 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 4,537
 

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Melbourne Oz
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otatiaro View Post
Hello,



What about being able to modify the figure in the software, and I give you (and put on the wiki) the formula to calculate the correct value depending on your setup ?

Thomas.
Thomas that would be excellent. I have no problem with you keeping it easy for novice users so long as you can give us access to calculate and set the value as well.

//Dennis
__________________
SOXOS DB7 : SOXOS 600 : SOXOS 550 : SOXOS F3C
Protos 380 : SAB Goblin 700 nightflyer : Jeti DS-16 : Mini Protos FBL Stretch : Logo 600
www.soxosaustralia.com.au & VTX blades
Thunder Fighter is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-04-2016, 05:55 AM   #33 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: France
Default

Hello,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avitus View Post
I was trying to calibrate the ESC to my Neuron Throttle output using Bluetooth, but I was unable to enter the ESC programming mode (by starting up with the TX throttle fully up). The symptoms was that the swashplate made its little initialization dance, and then the motor would spool up (no damage, blades off and other precautions taken). (Probably because the ESC finished initializing before the the Neuron (powered via the BEC from the ESC), and in lack of a "full throttle" signal, it would just skip entering programming mode.
Exact, the Neuron sends implements its own arming feature, and bypasses the ESC arming by sending the low throttle value at startup.

This is because of scorpion ESCs, if they don't receive a valid input right after startup, they enter a kind of failure mode and never arm (you have to cycle power).

Thomas.
Otatiaro is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-04-2016, 06:20 AM   #34 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: France
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder Fighter View Post
Thomas that would be excellent. I have no problem with you keeping it easy for novice users so long as you can give us access to calculate and set the value as well.

//Dennis
For nitro with magnets on the engine shaft (clutch):

n = number of magnets
r = engine to main rotor ratio (usually around 8)

R = n * r

For nitro with magnets on the main rotor:

n = number of magnets

R = n

For brushless:

p = number of pole pairs (check your motor datasheet)
r = motor to main rotor ratio (usually around 8)

R = p * r

Ok now we have R (sensor to main rotor ratio), calculates F which is the main rotor speed at 100% throttle in Hertz.

The gov store frequency in Maestro is F * R.

Vice versa, the calculated speed at 100% is the gov store frequency shown in Maestro divided by R (and multiplied by 60 to get RPMs).

Example :

Let's say I have a Goblin 570 with a 20T pinion, that's a ratio of 10.3 (see http://www.goblin-helicopter.com/sho...ducts_id=25452) and a scorpion motor (first I found : http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...Outrunner.html) which has 8 magnet poles (so 4 pairs).

R = 4 * 10.3 = 41.2

I want 2200 rpm at 100% throttle, that's 2200 / 60 = 36.6Hz.

So I need to set in Maestro the gov store frequency at 36.3 * 41.2 = 1511 Hz.

Other way around :

If Maestro shows 1700 Hz after I reset the gov store frequency and spooled up, the I can reverse the formula, RPM at 100% throttle would be 1700 * 60 / R = 1400 * 60 / 41.2 = 2476 rpm (so if I set throttle at 70% I should get 2476 * 0.70 = 1733 rpm).

Thomas.

PS : I hope I did not make any mistake, please tell it if your result is very different.

PS 2 : I'll make the gov store value read write in the next firmware.
Otatiaro is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-04-2016, 02:14 PM   #35 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 4,537
 

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Melbourne Oz
Default

Thanks, makes sense to me when I read it. I will check it when I get home in a few weeks with the values I have in my 2 Neuron's against the throttle % and headspeeds.

Being able to keep it consistent is just as important as understanding how it is derived.

//Dennis.
__________________
SOXOS DB7 : SOXOS 600 : SOXOS 550 : SOXOS F3C
Protos 380 : SAB Goblin 700 nightflyer : Jeti DS-16 : Mini Protos FBL Stretch : Logo 600
www.soxosaustralia.com.au & VTX blades
Thunder Fighter is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-05-2016, 02:44 AM   #36 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 109
 

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Otranto
Default

But is normal 3150 hz in goblin 700 t23 tx futaba 50%gas?

Inviato dal mio LG-D855 utilizzando Tapatalk
Geco73 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-05-2016, 08:29 AM   #37 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 4,537
 

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Melbourne Oz
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geco73 View Post
But is normal 3150 hz in goblin 700 t23 tx futaba 50%gas?
Plug the numbers in yourself and see. You need to know where your rpm pickup is coming from and your gear ratio. I could easily see it being at that value as where you have the RPM being picked up from will make a big difference.

If it's working correctly then don't worry, that is the positive of the method in the software. If it isn't working right then try clearing it and doing the first spoolup again and see what figure it goes too.

//Dennis
__________________
SOXOS DB7 : SOXOS 600 : SOXOS 550 : SOXOS F3C
Protos 380 : SAB Goblin 700 nightflyer : Jeti DS-16 : Mini Protos FBL Stretch : Logo 600
www.soxosaustralia.com.au & VTX blades
Thunder Fighter is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-05-2016, 10:56 AM   #38 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 109
 

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Otranto
Default

Works well only that 63% already 2300 on the radio

Inviato dal mio LG-D855 utilizzando Tapatalk
Geco73 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-06-2016, 06:48 AM   #39 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: France
Default

Hello,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geco73 View Post
Works well only that 63% already 2300 on the radio
I just replied to your MP, please give us:
- the motor exact reference (with KV),
- pinion teeth count,
- helicopter (goblin 700 right ?)
- battery cells ?

So we can make the calculations and verify.

Thomas.
Otatiaro is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-06-2016, 06:57 AM   #40 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Hong Kong
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otatiaro View Post
Hello,



I just replied to your MP, please give us:
- the motor exact reference (with KV),
- pinion teeth count,
- helicopter (goblin 700 right ?)
- battery cells ?

So we can make the calculations and verify.

Thomas.
Hi, Thomas, please help also,

Sab goblin 500 sport
18T pinion
4025-1100kv
Hobbywing 100a v3
6s battery
unun is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply




Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the HeliFreak forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your REAL and WORKING email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Use a real email address or you will not be granted access to the site. Thank you.
Email Address:
Location
Where do you live? ie: Country, State, City or General Geographic Location please.
Name and Lastname
Enter name and last name here. (This information is not shown to the general public. Optional)
Helicopter #1
Enter Helicopter #1 type and equipment.
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)
Helicopter #2
Enter Helicopter #2 type and equipment.
Helicopter #3
Enter Helicopter #3 type and equipment.
Helicopter #4
Enter Helicopter #4 type and equipment.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.
 

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1