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180CFX Blade 180CFX Helicopters Information and Help


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Old 03-18-2016, 11:06 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Really!? Thank you so much for explaining ...

Since I got my heli used I may not have received all pertinent documentation. Is there an addendum or "read me" stuck in the boxes of new helis that explains this or did you figure it out via brute force?

-John

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Old 03-19-2016, 08:05 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Brute force!
Having owned the 180 a month after the initial release, I kept reading the forums about problems others were having. The info was slow coming, but I just kept reading everything I could find here on the Freak,RCG, and Googled the crap out of the Interwebs.

A lot of good info out there, I try to share what I can remember.

HW.
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Old 03-19-2016, 07:01 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Lots of progress today!

Cut and re-soldered the ESC's wires. Almost needed a microscope to see those tiny solder pads on the PCB. The morning coffee definitely didn't help things any ...

Installed all of the electronics, routing most of the wires on the right side so access to the receiver can be obtained by taking off the left side and cutting one zip tie. Had to use needle nose pliers to plug those connectors in.

Applied blue thread lock to the main and tail grips. Re-tightened all of the screws on the heli.

Maiden flight - didn't go so well. A slight out of control condition right after lift off. 2nd attempt, more chaos and a tip over. Feathering and tail shafts seem fine. Main shaft may be ever-so-slightly bent. All three servos got jacked up (previous owner must have done the servo saver mod - cutting a slit in each of the control horns). Had to remove the horns, recenter them (90 at mid-stick), then re-adjust the elevator servo a bit. Busted the landing gear too (this is definitely going to be upgraded to one of those Lynx LG sets). Glad I decided to put the pre-owned pre-scraped blades and the pre-shredded-then-scotch-taped-back-together canopy on for the first flights

After some more time on the bench the next flights went much better. DAMN! This thing moves FAST! Call me a sissy but I had to change the pitch from 0-25-50-75-100 to 20-35-50-65-80, put in 75% dual rates and 30% expo. Even with those sedatives she's still a handful! I have throttle1 set to 0-30-30-30-30 (4200 RPM) and throttle2 set to 75-75-75-75-75 (4600 RPM). Flew her around in the backyard, tested out both throttle1 and throttle2 headspeeds (DX6i, only has two ). Didn't try any inverted nonsense today - still working on that 'trust'. PIROS ARE AWESOME!

Landing is tricky though. She doesn't want to land. Every time I tried she'd threaten with another tip-over. I guess it's going to be cutting throttle quick as soon as (or just before) the skids touch the ground.

I wasn't sure of the manual's suggestion to set the tail gyro to 50% ... I'm still used to (scared of) 50% actually being 0 gain on a rate/HH gyro. So I bumped it up to 60%. Seemed to be okay - didn't notice any wagging. I then lowered it to 55% but it seemed a little loose then. Not sure yet. Back to 60 for now. What are you guys running for tail gain?

I can tell this heli is going to be LOTs OF FUN! BTW - I'm really glad I didn't try to maiden/hover her in the basement first. I wasn't expecting the responsiveness that was waiting for me! I'm used to bigger helis that don't react as fast as this one does. Gonna be good training for sure!

Blade 180 CFX - First 4 Flights (9 min 5 sec)


Thanks guys - your help is truly appreciated !

-John
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Old 03-20-2016, 09:05 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Hmmm - think I know what might have contributed to the tip overs (besides not being ready for 4200 RPM, 100% dual rates and No expo).

I put some rubber dampers on the landing skids to keep the heli from sliding around on the ground, like all my FB helis have. I think this heli - or the flybarless controller - wants and needs to slide around a bit when it's on the ground .... When I replaced the gear that was damaged I did not put the dampers back on.

Am I correct ?

-John
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Old 03-20-2016, 12:31 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Landing under power is tricky with the 180.
It has been posted that switching throttle hold on and doing a mini autorotation just before touching down results in smoother landings.

I cannot find the particular post, but the skid rubbers are a bad idea due to resonant vibrations messing with the FBL system. It would be like bent or out of balance components vibrating the airframe, causing errors in the gyros.
Best to have the heli scoot on its' own.

This was posted in 2014.Just a little info.
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=669718

Hope this helps.

HW.
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Old 03-20-2016, 12:58 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I watched the video and it looks pretty much like my MSRx. Almost impossible to get a smooth takeoff or landing with that thing. I have to just pop it into the air with quick throttle and hope it doesn't tip over on landing.

I guess I'm lucky with my 180 as even on carpet the takeoffs and landings are slow and butter smooth. Other than collective the only control input I make lifting off is a bit of rudder if it needs it. I try not to add any cyclic "anticipation". As small as this thing is I fully expected it to be just as skittish as the MSRx but I think purely by dumb luck mine launches and lands as good or better than my 450's. Every time I screw up and have to work on it it worries me to death that I'm going to upset what makes mine work so well and I'll never figure it out again.

I'm using the DX6 (2014) file downloaded from HH with only minor changes to expo. The only thing I don't like about it is that trims are disabled. Maybe that's a good thing?

Joe
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Old 03-20-2016, 01:23 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Thanks for the link - great info. Yes, it helps a lot. I want buttery smooth like Joe's

Well, since I know things basically work with the heli now, I'll go ahead and pull the main shaft and put the 2nd new one in, and replace all of the blades with the new ones I just bought, after balancing them that is. And check for anything that might transmit vibes to the flybarless controller.

I've been popping her up and trying the mini-auto to land. Both need work ...

Perhaps I've got some vibes, which sounds more likely than not.

-John
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Old 03-20-2016, 02:31 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Hmmmm - this not good
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Old 03-20-2016, 02:52 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Methinks smoother flights are in the near future. Good find!

Joe
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Old 03-20-2016, 03:51 PM   #50 (permalink)
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WOW!
Pretty bad when one starts losing their balls.

That could very well cause liftoff issues. If it would stick then release, bad things happen.

Might not hurt to check them all just to be on the safe side.

HW.
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Old 03-20-2016, 07:45 PM   #51 (permalink)
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When I initially disassembled the main grips the bearings all appeared to be in good shape. Maybe that tip over caused the damage (?) Or I damaged them during the removal and inspection.

I'm going to order a complete set of main and tail bearings, just to be safe. Looks like the main shaft bearings aren't replaceable unless new main bearing blocks are installed.

All good though. This weekend was a confidence builder in that the pre-owned heli wasn't a lemon and I could get my old DX6i to play nice with it. Got past the first date and managed to pull off 6 flights before noticing the bad bearing. I do need to get some stronger glasses for the macro close-up work

I think I'm off to a good start - need to pick out some decent places to fly now ...

-John
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Old 03-20-2016, 10:23 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FR4-Pilot View Post
Looks like the main shaft bearings aren't replaceable unless new main bearing blocks are installed.

-John
you can replace the bearings only if you like. many here have their own way of doing it. some don't remove the blocks, some do. I personally remove one block at a time, replace the bearing, then put the block back in and do the other one .

this lets you do the job without having to remove the servos. I take the head out attached to the shaft, so putting it back in is easy enough and will give you the chance to check other things out in the frame with the main gear being removed .

the bearings are seated in pretty tight, but if you take an old main shaft and insert it in to the bearing with the block over the open end of a small socket... you can tap it out .
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Old 03-21-2016, 12:25 AM   #53 (permalink)
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I would replace all bearings with something different than stock just to be safe. My main shaft bearings separated mid fight after it's first couple flights for no good reason. Almost caused a crashed but luckily it just chewed up a main gear. Other stock bearings soon just caused bad vibrations
Avid rc, lynx and Boca have bearings for the 180. I chose the lynx bearing kits to make things simpler and cheaper.
Edit: I want to add that other than the bearings my 180 flew great stock. I just thought I was sounding a little negative
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Old 03-21-2016, 02:19 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Okay ... I picked up some bearings from the LHS today. They only had main and tail grip radial bearings, no thrust or main shaft bearings. Better bearings are on the wish list.

...

So she's got (stock) new main grip radial bearings, new spindle, new main shaft, new tail grip bearings, new tail shaft & hub, new main blades and new tail blades. Keeping fingers crossed that she's a little smoother beginning with the next flight

CastleLink is on the way so I can see what's going on inside the ESC. Also some parallel charge cables from www.buddyrc.com. Need some more packs now !

-John
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:20 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Sweet!

She's much quieter now, and smoother too! But there's also a little bit of tail bobbing going on Wasn't doing this before. Will check things again ...



She's turning into a great back yard flyer for sure. Take offs are less dramatic than before. Landing, not so much - still trying to figure it out. Not touching cyclic or rudder during spool up/down is going to take some getting used to.

Castlelink is "Out for Delivery"

-John
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Old 03-25-2016, 08:04 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Good to see she's in the air again. Wonder what's up with the bobbing? Sacked out dampers maybe?

Joe
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Old 03-25-2016, 08:14 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Hey Joe - I actually got 8 flights in today !

Went to a couple of parks and did some loops. Tried to hold her inverted at the top of a loop but she acted kinda funny and shot off to the side. Maybe I couldn't see her attitude correctly. No crash though. I was at least three mistakes high, or more, I think

I need to get comfortable with this heli's feel - not there yet. Pretty good pucker factor though! And she gets small real quick in the park. Took off and landed from a nice, flat basketball court. Last flight she almost tipped over while landing ... Grrrr!

The bobbing - it happens at 4200 and 4600 RPM, so it's not a head speed thing. I think I put the grips/bearings/dampers back together correctly (?) Hmmm ....

It's like learning to fly all over again

-John
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Old 03-25-2016, 08:25 PM   #58 (permalink)
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So the bobbing is at IU1 and IU2? Mine was doing that after I "thought" I had the servos centered and was at zero pitch mid stick. Turns out when I checked closer I was one tooth off at the aileron servo arm and it seems the AS3X will try to compensate for that. Drove me nuts for a while. Once I got it just right with real 90 degrees at the servos (not what my blind eyes saw the first time) and proper zero pitch at mid stick she's smooth as glass again.

I'm hoping against hope that the phone will not ring from now until Monday morning and I can finally go out and fly again.

Joe
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Old 03-25-2016, 09:23 PM   #59 (permalink)
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"Blind Eyes" - I hear ya there. Between the sunglasses, the bi-focals, and the 1.25x cheaters I keep having to switch between when dealing with this heli - it's a wonder I got most of the parts put back where they're supposed to be

I'll have to double check the servos like you mentioned. Something changed during my last rebuild of the head and tail. Not surprising that the teeniest little thing can cause problems at these head speeds.

I upped my flying time from the recommended 3:00mins to 3:30mins - and the packs came down at 3.85V per cell. Think I'll bump it to 4:00mins. Running at 4200 RPM though. Got the Castlelink and changed the RPMs to 3900, 4200 & 5000 for the next flights.

Hope you get some quality flying time too I'm amazed that I had a day off work AND the weather was beautiful AND I got to fly

Blade 180 CFX - Flight 14 - At the Park (4 min 13 sec)


-John
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Old 03-26-2016, 03:44 PM   #60 (permalink)
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5 Minutes per pack is back!

Changed my headspeeds to 3900, 4200 & 5000 per the Castlelink. DX6i only allows me two at a time, so 3900 and 4200 it is, for now.

My last two 3.5 minute flights @3900 resulted in an average current draw of only 3.86A (42.8W) ! Calculations say I'm good for just over 6 minutes - I'll go with 5 minutes and leave some gas in the tank - for extra landing attempts

Just casual flying around - no extreme 3D. Even sport flying yesterday in the park @4200 with some loops drew about 4.2A, which results in an estimated flight time of 5:43.

Decided to play with tail gyro gain today. 50% just doesn't do it. Neither does 60, 70 or 80. I'm finding 90% at 3900 and 4200 is more like it. What tail gyro gain are you guys running?

Got some more goodies today ... the 6x parallel charging cables arrived early! Now I need to get 2 more packs!

And I accidentally found some tiny red and green skid pontoons at the dollar store - to match my other helis! Seriously - they help me see the heli's attitude better when the heli is farther away, and may help with the whole take-off/landing/tip-over thing. I don't like how the stock skids/sticks all but disappear once the heli is more than a few feet away.

I noticed the teeniest bit of slop in one of the tail grips that wasn't there before I installed the new bearings from Blade. Turns out the thicker of the two radial bearings, from the new pack, was causing the slop. I exchanged it with the (older) one that was previously installed and the slop is gone. Hmmm ... New bearing slightly out of spec ?

Only 6 flights today However, less bobbing after the tail grip bearing swap and 90% tail gyro gain setting.

Blade 180 CFX - Flight 20 - 5mins, Pontoons, 90% Tail, & 3900 RPMs (6 min 14 sec)

Flight 20 Stats

5 min Flight
289 mAh Used --> 58 mAh/Minute --> 3.47A Average Current --> 38.17W
6:55 Estimated Flight Time (500mAh pack, 80% used)
6:14 Estimated Flight Time (450mAh pack, 80% used)

Current Settings

Talon 15 ESC:
3900, 4200, 5000 (via Castlelink & PC software)

DSM2 DX6i:
D/R Expo 0: 75% 30%
D/R Expo 1: 80% 25%
Gyro 0: 90%
Gyro 1: 90%
Throttle Norm: 30-30-30-30-30
Throttle Stunt: 75-75-75-75-75
Pitch (All): 5-35-50-65-95
Timer: 5:00 CountDown

Stock 5800kV motor, 104T main/10T pinion, 450-500mAh packs.

-John
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