Warp 360 eating away on tailbearings, will Boca beairngs with ceramic balls help? - HeliFreak
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Old 03-13-2016, 02:29 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Warp 360 eating away on tailbearings, will Boca beairngs with ceramic balls help?

Since i bould my Warp 360 last spring it have had problems with eating away on the tailshaft bearings.
I have replaced them 2 times during the summer but still get so much slop in them that they start making vibes picked up by the FBL controller creating tailbobbing occilation.
The occilations are cured with new bearings.
I suspect taivibes to cause these without being able to balance it compleetly out and now i have gotten 58mm KBDD blades to test out on the tail to lighten the load.
Will Boca Ceramic bearings help the problem as i have ordered 4 of those http://www.bocabearings.com/bearing-...3-SMF84C2YSNB2
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Old 03-13-2016, 02:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
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It sounds to me like you may be having issues with the alignment of your tail plates. Are you using the aluminum plates or the carbon ones? How tight are you running your belt? If you are having issues with steel bearings I don't know that ceramics will help in the long run, and may even be destroyed more quickly. If your tail plate alignment is good and your belt isn't too tight the ceramics should be fine.
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Old 03-13-2016, 03:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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To start with i used the carbon ones but upgraded to the alu tail with bigger pulley when the bearings whent shot the first time.
Im running my tailbelt on the loose side but have not given tailplate alignement any thoughts so maybe its worth checking.
Are just readinga bout the importance of lubing the tailbearings regularly to prevent them from wearing out prematurly.
Anyway for me these is my fist heli doing these and not even my Trex 450 with Copterx tail did these to the tailbeairngs
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Old 03-13-2016, 03:05 PM   #4 (permalink)
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How are you affixing the bearings to the tail plates? I have been using green loctite (bearing retainer) without issue. Some people are using JB Weld. If the bearings spin in the plates they will go bad as well.
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Old 03-13-2016, 03:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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If you want to see if your bearings are spinning in the plates put a mark on the bearing and plate with sharpie and compare the locations of the marks after a flight.
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Old 03-13-2016, 03:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
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On the Carbon plats i did not do anything as they was allready installed when assembeling them but the beairngs came loose pritty quick.
Epoxied them in place but camle loose again.
On the alu plates i used Loctite 603 bearing retaining fluide.
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Old 03-13-2016, 04:13 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Sounds like you are doing things right... how tight of a belt tension do you run?
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Old 03-13-2016, 06:41 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Also, are you keeping the bearings lubricated?

I have about 100 flights on one Warp and somewhere around 70 (I think) on the other.
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Old 03-14-2016, 03:30 PM   #9 (permalink)
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No i have not been doing much lubing until the end of the life of the last bearings and it may be to litle to late.
Did not think of it as something necesseary as i have not don it to my 2 logos and Trex 450 and never having issues with the tailbeairngs on them.
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Old 03-14-2016, 07:27 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Mr.Andersen,

Regarding Bearings...

1) None of the model helicopter manufacturers makes their own bearings. They have to purchase them from vendors and it is not always the same vendor. The vendor is not always the manufacturer, either.

2) Shielded bearings, unless the bearing manufacturer or vendor states specifically otherwise, are not lubricated at the factory. If you pull a shield, you will usually find a very small quantity of a clear grease in them. This is not a lubricant, but is there to prevent corrosion. I had this thoroughly explained to me when I used to purchase bearings for R/C use at King Bearing in Long Beach, CA (who also explained to me that the bearings MUST be kept lubricated).

3) Many people on the forums have stated that the lubricant (again, not truly a lubricant) that comes is the bearings is "good for the life of the bearing"-this is a self-fulfilling prophesy. These are usually also the people who complain that the bearings don't last very long (not referring to you sir, just the general population who does this).

There are also those who state that if you oil the bearings, you will wash the grease out and destroy the bearings (again, there is not much of anything in there except a preservative to begin with). 40 years of working with these has disproven this myth as well.

Align used to take a particular beating on the forums about the short life of their bearings (which, again, where not "their bearings," there is no such thing as an Align bearing, anymore than their being a Mikado bearing or a Compass bearing). If you kept the bearings that came with the Align helicopters lubricated, they would last hundreds of flights (i.e there was nothing wrong with them at all, if they were just maintained).

The bottom line is that if you keep shielded bearings lubricated, they will last a very long time, assuming they are not damaged in crashes or exposed to grit/dust which can get past the shields and grind them up.

A couple of drops of light oil or TriFlow liquid applied periodically, between the inner race and the shield will do wonders for bearing longevity. Using a tool such as "The Greaser" to really pack them properly with grease will work well too (you do have to remove the bearings to use The Greaser).

Whichever you use, make sure that the excess lubricant is wiped off so that it does not have the opportunity to collect dirt.
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Old 03-15-2016, 12:20 AM   #11 (permalink)
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If I was to pack the bearings with grease, what kind of grease should I use?
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Old 03-15-2016, 09:48 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Red and tacky would work. There might be something better/lighter that would provide less resistance.

I would just put a few drops of light oil on them periodically-just make sure it goes in between the shield and the inner race.

We did comparative testing back in the 1980's. Most of us greased our bearings with Schluter grease. One of the guys started using light oil and his spin down times after shutting the engine off were way better than those of us using grease.

Again, either will work, and either is better than running the bearings dry.

There should be an old Finless Bob thread on here about "The Greaser." I can't remember for sure, but I think he gave advice on which grease to use.
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Old 03-16-2016, 02:07 PM   #13 (permalink)
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So boca sealed bearings will work nice on placed where i either cant ore wont lube then past whats comes in them.
Maybe my motors allso will last longer then 200 flights befor swapping bearings if i lube them ore change to boca bearings.
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Old 03-16-2016, 03:15 PM   #14 (permalink)
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You don't need sealed bearings (you can use them if you desire, but you don't need them unless you take off and land in a dusty/gritty environment).

I suppose you could replace the existing bearings with sealed ones, if your goal is to avoid having the lubricate the machine.

The bearings that have already been damaged due to lack of lubrication have to be changed anyway. You would have to decide whether it is easier to change the others or just obtain a needle oiler.

Just take the time to lube the stock bearings periodically and you will be fine.

Scorpion oil works very well on motor bearings, by the way.
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Old 03-17-2016, 01:43 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I dont like lubing my motor bearings as the oil get flinged around and make a mess where oiling the motor bearings is possible.
On my Logo 600 there is no way i can reach the lower bearing of the motor and the same is for the Warp 360.
My chase 360 look like the motor bearings are hard to reach too.
Mast bearings get oiled as i oil my swash with light machine oil, the same is for the tail pitch slider where the bearing closest to the slider get its part of oil too.
Thank you for the information of the "lubed for life" statements.
Is these the same for japanese quality beairngs, SKF, NSK and other good brands?
I have asked my local bearing dealer who sels NSK and they say the bearings is lubed for life but they dont last any longer then everything else i have tried.
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Old 03-18-2016, 03:47 PM   #16 (permalink)
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High end bearings will not solve any such issues. Replace the damaged bearings, but figure out what the actual problem is. As mentioned, it most likely relates to alignment.

One other thing to be mindful of is making sure the bearing is seated properly.
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Old 03-18-2016, 04:14 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I have ordered a balancer a few days ago and are planning on balancing the whole tail assembly with hub, grips and blades.
I suspect there is vibration issues back there as i can feel vibrations in the taiboom with the tailgrips installed.
I want to get to the root of the problem becouse i realy like how the Warp fly.
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Old 03-30-2016, 02:02 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Boca bearings have arrive the same day as our airfeald opened but the balancer have still not arrived so i install the new bearings and have my first flight of the season these weekend if the weather hold but im still realy curious to how balanced my taillassembly realy is.
The way i have aligned the sideplates is to shov them against the tailblock when tightening the screws.
Is these the correct way ore could the plates still be missaligned?
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Old 04-05-2016, 03:00 PM   #19 (permalink)
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New boca hybrid bearings installed in the tail and the whole atilassembly balanced.
First flight whent silky smooth, then dropped it in the stair carrying it inside afterward and now i have ordenary crach dammages to the heli allso taking out the tailshaft bearings.
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Old 04-05-2016, 03:36 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Andersen View Post
I have ordered a balancer a few days ago and are planning on balancing the whole tail assembly with hub, grips and blades.
I suspect there is vibration issues back there as i can feel vibrations in the taiboom with the tailgrips installed.
I want to get to the root of the problem becouse i realy like how the Warp fly.
One other thing to consider, it was either in the official warp build thread or in the manual, it mentioned that the pin used to keep the pinion mounted in place on the tail shaft must be carefully installed to keep in centered correctly to avoid vibrations
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