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Blade 230S Blade 230S Helicopters Information and Help


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Old 03-20-2016, 05:15 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 230S Microheli 3 Blade Head

Hey all,

I have upgraded my 230 to all cf from Microheli. I have used them for a couple of other small heli builds and loved the results. The body, skids, and tail assembly all went together great. Best part is after this upgrade and doing the calibration then trim flight the right movement in normal mode and aileron pitch during takeoff is barely noticeable now, if not gone all together.

Problem I am having is this is my first three blade head I have attempted, leading me to believe I have done something wrong. With the microheli three blade head I have less lift, cyclic rates are dramatically reduced (making it near impossible to do any low altitude flips/rolls), and overall the quality of flight seems just horribly degraded. I put the two blade assembly back on and she flips/rolls like a champ again.

Swash was leveled with a leveling tool, zero pitch set with a pitch gauge, transmitter low rates are 80% book value, mid rates 100% book value, high rates 125% aileron/pitch with 115% yaw of book value with 15% expo on low/mid, 0% high. No changes made to throttle, pitch, or gyro gains from book value. level calibration and trim flight performed after each swap from 3 blade assembly to 2 blade. 180 degree flip rate (from stationary hover) with 2 blade head = less than 1/2 second, flip rate with 3 blade head approx 2.5 seconds with same rates listed (high) used for both. Head did not appear to be bogging down with three blade assembly but I have no telemetry data.

I guess the question I am asking is is this typical for a 3 blade head assembly to have degraded flight characteristics compared to the two blade or did I miss something with my setup? I always thought the 3 blade assembly was supposed to be snappier, with better control performance and lift. The microheli blades are thinner on the chord and thickness, but same span. when I compared them they were only at best 75% what the two blade version was, but since there were three my mind is telling me that means a larger lift/control surface, but performance doesn't show it and it is just too lacking for my flying style.

Being my first three blade head attempt this has kind of turned me off to the whole idea. Unless I missed something with my setup or one of you awesome rc vets have a bright idea for me to try I'm gonna have to can my 100$ upgrade and keep the two blade version. Thank you in advance for the thoughts and comments.
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Old 03-20-2016, 05:23 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I forgot to mention, out of 8 flights with the three blade head assembly the control arm linkage from swash to blade holder has broken twice in flight. First time during a nose down tic toc high rate mode, second time during hover folowing takeoff in low rate/normal flight mode. Saw the blade loose pitch control in flight both times. Saved it from the hover, crashed during tic toc one. No wear marks on ball links indicating they were striking swash and both snapped right at curve in middle.
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Old 03-20-2016, 05:46 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I have same heli , can you goto facebook, Robert parker, Anaheim cali. my pic is bart simpson at chalk board, writing I will not fly 3d until I can hover. that way I can tell you in a message and we can get this right. I know exactly what your dealing with.. ill wait an hour, then try and respond here, but trying to explain in this setting will be harder... your triple head is built wrong.. belive it or not.. your flying a built wrong head.. I have full diagrams and pictures and how to install the head and build it correctly.. I made the exact mistake you did... facebook me Robert parker
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Old 03-20-2016, 05:48 PM   #4 (permalink)
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after its built right...omg bro its awesome.. and every complaint you spoke of above will be gone.. you then can write a review and let others know aswell...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_l...zyr8HMNS1NN6XQ
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Old 03-20-2016, 05:50 PM   #5 (permalink)
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my 230s is 100% microheli full carbon - metal
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Old 03-20-2016, 06:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Yes sir, I will facebook you. Eager to see what you figured out. Give me a bit to make it to a real computer, on my phone at moment.
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Old 03-20-2016, 06:24 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I have been humbled by this micro, I must admit. I built the Microheli Triple bladed head wrong, 90 degrees off in the feathering shaft. I wanted to point out with 2 pictures what is wrong and what is right. I flew it 6 times wrong, after the third i noticed sloppiness in the head... I'm very lucky I didnt fly it anymore than i did. with Jack Blanchard & Khoa Nguyen they pointed it out after taking it apart where I had gone wrong. ty gentlemen. flew it 6 times today, head is ...rock solid, perfect. first flights always make me so nervous. need to adjust gains you will see in future first re-maiden video.
the image on the left is wrong, even though it fits , and it all closes up like it right on, it not. : will cause sloppiness & fail at some point.note the shape of the top.
the image on the right is correct. rounded top is the proper way.

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I'm horrible about loading pictures to helifreak... the picture with flat tops, wrong. put shaft in with the rounded picture below.. the top button everything will fit, but better.. I also did 1 mod to my head. I added a flat washer very thin on infront of the spacer they give.. that spacer for head to grip should also be flat against flat.. as you know it has a bevel on one side. flat against flat, flat touching the dampener. bevel towards grip. on instructions these 2 things they don't give info on... AS a team pilot and representive of MicroHeli I have already submitted they add these instructions. I built it 2 ways wrong , first minor spacer wrong way.. then major cause I still had a crappy helicopter,
then I finally got it right....sweetness!!!! awesomeness... sounds pitch, travel, speed hope this helps.. MicroHeli team pilot Robert parker

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Old 03-20-2016, 06:38 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Old 03-20-2016, 06:43 PM   #9 (permalink)
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_l...zyr8HMNS1NN6XQ


https://www.facebook.com/robert.parker.9279807
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Old 03-20-2016, 06:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
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no problem

https://www.facebook.com/robert.parker.9279807
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Old 03-20-2016, 07:03 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Well guys, He was absolutly correct! I verified the spindle was installed 90 degrees off. I have flipped two but looks like one of my blade holder retention screws is stuck in the spindle and the spindle shaft is spinning inside of the pressed on cap in the head side. Gonna try some CA to the pressed part then extract screw. If that no workie i'ma have to drill it and I don't have another spindle on hand. Ordered backups 9 days ago (forgot to order spares with the original build) but probably won't be to me for another week. Might be a while before I repost the result of the fix.
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Old 03-20-2016, 07:03 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irvinepoolguy View Post
I have been humbled by this micro, I must admit. I built the Microheli Triple bladed head wrong, 90 degrees off in the feathering shaft. I wanted to point out with 2 pictures what is wrong and what is right. I flew it 6 times wrong, after the third i noticed sloppiness in the head... I'm very lucky I didnt fly it anymore than i did. with Jack Blanchard & Khoa Nguyen they pointed it out after taking it apart where I had gone wrong. ty gentlemen. flew it 6 times today, head is ...rock solid, perfect. first flights always make me so nervous. need to adjust gains you will see in future first re-maiden video.
the image on the left is wrong, even though it fits , and it all closes up like it right on, it not. : will cause sloppiness & fail at some point.note the shape of the top.
the image on the right is correct. rounded top is the proper way.

[ATTACH]Attachment 642032[/ATTACH]
I'm horrible about loading pictures to helifreak... the picture with flat tops, wrong. put shaft in with the rounded picture below.. the top button everything will fit, but better.. I also did 1 mod to my head. I added a flat washer very thin on infront of the spacer they give.. that spacer for head to grip should also be flat against flat.. as you know it has a bevel on one side. flat against flat, flat touching the dampener. bevel towards grip. on instructions these 2 things they don't give info on... AS a team pilot and representive of MicroHeli I have already submitted they add these instructions. I built it 2 ways wrong , first minor spacer wrong way.. then major cause I still had a crappy helicopter,
then I finally got it right....sweetness!!!! awesomeness... sounds pitch, travel, speed hope this helps.. MicroHeli team pilot Robert parker

Thanks for sorting this out, I'm just about to build mine, and the pictures in the instructions are very unclear. Also, why did you add the extra washer?

I put a tri head on my 200srx and oh, what a difference, scary!

Last edited by crsorrell0653; 03-22-2016 at 02:37 AM..
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Old 03-20-2016, 07:12 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Extra washers make the head assembly more stiff. I usually use thicker dampeners for similar effect, just metal has practically no give on compression. Havn't tried it on this build yet but after talking to Mr. Parker i may give it a try when i get this thing back up and going.
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Old 03-20-2016, 08:27 PM   #14 (permalink)
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makes that head so stiff like flying SAB triple blade. no slop at all.. rigid and awesome.. I find over time the given spacer is a hair to small. adding that thin ass spacer there will hold the dampener in better and provide the right stiffness. its perfect at my youtube channel I worked out all the gyro gains you may have to make cause of the triple bladed head..
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Old 03-20-2016, 08:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
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https://www.facebook.com/robert.parker.9279807 goto my page..i'll get you into some awesome private 230s groups..hundreds of nuts like us..Click image for larger version

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Old 04-15-2016, 09:04 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Final flight with this assembly

Everyone, I have finally rebuilt my microheli three blade head after the failure/crash last time due to my error installing the spindle. I have to report, this is the only upgrade from microheli I do not like and will absolutly recommend against if you are any level of pilot above beginner. The sound is cool, overall you have a little bit more thrust, and slightly increased hang time. I used the gyro settings provided by Mr. Parker for the setup, and they worked perfectly. That is all I have to report that is good.
For my transmitter setup: throttle at stock value for all modes, pitch reduced from 12.5 degrees to 10.5 with three blade head, low rates stock value for high rates, mid rates 110% cyclic 115% yaw and 15% expo, high rates 120% cyclic 115% yaw with zero expo.
With the settings listed above I am having the same issue I had with the last setup, but this time there was zero slop in the head and tracking/phasing was spot on. What it comes down to is control response, this mod severly reduces manuver times. From a flat level hover to inverted level hover with two blade head takes me less than half a second, with this three blade setup I am over two seconds for same action. Although better than the incorrect build this still won't work. After all 8 of my batts and trying everything I could think to adjust I still was not able to obtain anywhere close to stock values and felt the aircraft had extreme degraded flight characteristics. Any type of 3D is out of the question unless you have serious altitude, but I tend to fly in the no recovery zone so this does not meet my needs. I need performance of the cyclic, not lift so this does not meet my needs for my flying style.
That being said, if you are a beginner doing mostly upright flying, hovering, and learning to use the heli orientations this may work for you if you have the money to blow. It was way more stable in hover and the 15 mph winds I flew in tonight didn't touch this bird. The tail motor did run 20 degrees hotter and main 15 degrees hotter, but I was pushing the limits to try and write a good review. I had high hopes for this upgrade after everything I read, but I am going back to stock first thing tomorrow before I hit the field. The way I fly I will wreck this girl because of the slow control. I will be purchasing the 2 blade power assembly from microheli to replace stock plastic ones as every other upgrade I purchased from them was highly impressive, but I can't recommend this upgrade. I'm glad I tried this setup instead of one for one of my larger models which would have been more expensive, but this will be my first and last three blade modded heli.
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:28 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smetankj View Post
I'm glad I tried this setup instead of one for one of my larger models which would have been more expensive, but this will be my first and last three blade modded heli.
If you get a serious urge for a 3-blade head again at some point, you might take a look at the Oxy Qube.
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Old 04-17-2016, 05:26 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Thanks for that warning, but am wondering what is going on here. I see them flying on youtube with the three bladed head, and they seem to be fine. I have one on a 200srx and wow, what a difference, like a hair trigger on a gun. When I get mine installed it'll be interesting to see what makes it tick. I could imagine that all the gains will need to be increased to cope with the extra rotor capacity. Any other thoughts.
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:14 AM   #19 (permalink)
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NEW Blade 230S MicroHeli 100% upgraded Triple Bladed Head, fine tuning gyro. (4 min 9 sec)


this is a inverted hover and negative pushout test video. my 230s fly's tit's perfect. performs hands free and responds. with added increases in gains , it is " a little floaty" I think now... but over all.. mine is a badass little beast. I mean nooooo disrespect. only thinking aloud, wondering if a setup issue that's not being seen , or a piece, component not installed correctly? rounded top on feathering shafts, take hub cover off, you should see a rounded top of the feathering shaft.. not a flat surface.. not half moon shaped flat. 2nd the washer that's in-between the grip and hub , has a flat surface and enhanced side.. the flat side of the washer goes to the hub side.. meaning flat side touches or covers the dampener. make sure you use the shaft the kit came with, check all screws, bolts, untighten your battery and lightly tighten only your blades. yes loosen up your battery to barely snug.. don't strap your battery down solid tight tight, it does make a difference.. id reset all values in gyro and start over.. my 230s is awesome. Lets get yours like mine... I wanna see some videos..
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Old 04-20-2016, 03:03 AM   #20 (permalink)
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rounded top on feathering shafts, take hub cover off, you should see a rounded top of the feathering shaft.. not a flat surface.. not half moon shaped flat. 2nd the washer that's in-between the grip and hub , has a flat surface and enhanced side.. the flat side of the washer goes to the hub side.. meaning flat side touches or covers the dampener. make sure you use the shaft the kit came with, check all screws, bolts, untighten your battery and lightly tighten only your blades. yes loosen up your battery to barely snug.. don't strap your battery down solid tight tight, it does make a difference.. id

So this is correct for the feathering shafts, and also the follower linkage arms should be trailing.
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