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Low Head Speed Helicopters Low Head Speed Helicopter Setups and Flying info


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Old 04-25-2016, 08:59 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Purpose built 6s Logo600se

Finally got most of the problems worked out on my 6s 600se project!

6s 600se (7 min 42 sec)
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Old 04-25-2016, 09:32 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Nice. Congratulations.

Please more info, e.g. Motor

, ESC, Servos, blades etc.

Thanks

Thomas
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Old 04-25-2016, 09:47 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Jeti Mezon 130hv (vbar gov/ collective precomp 25, cyclic precomp 65, otherwise default values)
V-bar 5.3.4 pro
MKS hbl950/980 (I had problems with shaking with less precise servos @1300rpm)
Xera/Xnova 4025-560 w/13T for 1250rpm
6s5000
Rail 696 (again, because I have them. I really want some VTX 697s or Helix 695 for this bird)
I2RC tri-tail w/ 3x 95mm (A must have for this headspeed to have the shown tail performance)
Logo600se w/BennyTRD single piece headblock (old "3D" head dumping, newer SX style head is more stiff from what I understand)
Lynx LX1654 690sx swashplate
Lynx LX0127 - Logo 600 Boom Holder

I also found that the green Trueblood dumpers were too stiff for this build so I'm running some Mikado o-ring dumpers I had but I don't actually know which hardness. I need to look at the data logs again but I think the highest peak I saw was 62A which on 6s, should put the 4025-560 at or just beyond it's peak efficiency point. Either way, I wouldn't really recommend any other motor for a build like this as I'm fairly certain the Xera/Xnova is the best.
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Old 04-26-2016, 08:51 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info!

Regards

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Old 04-27-2016, 07:58 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I forgot to add that I'm running the 690sx blade grips so I could use 5mm screws to secure the blades. The regular 600 grips would probably work fine but the combination of spacers AND bolt hole bushings can be really annoying.
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Old 04-27-2016, 01:52 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I have pretty similar project although I started with 550SX. My head speed for it is 1300rpm and it flies great with that. I can do all tricks I know (not many but anyway, piroflips, funnels etc). Of course I want to go lower HS and my goal is about 1100rpm but for now it bogs if not careful with cyclic. I did not get that many flights before winter so I need start testing again soon and try to figure out how to get it keep head speed little bit better.

I'm little bit relieved by your highest peak amps because I do not have telemetry and was bit worried with that YGE90, although it has not been at all hot.

My setup:
696mm+115mm Rail
Xnova 4030-560kV
YGE90LV
Mini Vbar
Torq BL9080 head
Align DS655 tail
Gens 4400mAh 6S 45C
Pinion 12T M1 6mm
Main gear 106 teeth M1

2620g (5.8lbs) without battery
3320g (7.3lbs) with Gens 4400mAh 6S 45C



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Old 04-27-2016, 02:14 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The 4025-560 or 4025-670 will be more efficient and you should be well within their ratings on 6s.

From my research, 1100rpm it will fly ok, 1200 will start to get "sporty" and 1300 is just flat out fun.

I'm probably going to set mine for 1250rpm instead of buying a 14T pinion.
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:52 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Flew it 4 or 5 times at the Heli Spring Fling this weekend and 1250rpm was perfect. So far, I haven't really found any bad flight characteristics. It cruises around very nicely and handles higher cyclic rates really well. I'm really excited to get some VTX blades for this helicopter as I think they may be exactly what this helicopter needs to take it to the next level.

A few people were actually shocked when I told them after landing that I was only running 1250rpm.

I also updated the parts list above to include some Lynx upgrades that I forgot I had on it.
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Old 05-11-2016, 01:01 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I did a pair of test flights today to get a better idea of flight times on my setup.

Smooth 3d: 9min
"drone" flying: 15min

By drone flying, I mean smooth, all upright medium speed forward flight with smooth turns. I also spent some time hovering as I know that requires more power than forward flight.

From my previous experience, I'd guess an average of 7min flights if you "beat" on it.
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Old 06-27-2016, 06:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Nice. I found it had a bit more pop with a smaller flight pack like 6s3300. CG is off but it hardly matters with a such huge disc and light build. For drone/scale style, you can double up on flight packs in parallel for some impressively long flights!
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Old 06-27-2016, 07:28 PM   #11 (permalink)
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When I get aggressive with it, I know the limitation is the blades. So, I pre-ordered a pair of VTX.
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Old 09-28-2016, 09:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Looks good man im planning similar bird
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Old 11-26-2017, 12:24 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Really interested in this. I ordered some 697 VTX blades.

I have tried running low head speed. 6S with one 4400 pack. But seems to have not much power.

I have tried with 12S as well...just two 3300 6 S packs.

I have a Scorpion 200 amp esc and a Scorpion 4035-450 motor.

I have been down to 1150 rpm on the 6S setup. On 12S it seems good at 1250 rpm and has more power.

I have a Hacker A50 14L 400KV motor I could try ?

Where do you get a tri tail for the Logo 600SE ?
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Old 11-26-2017, 01:27 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I2RC TBTL56 LOGO 500/600 High Performance Tri-Blade Tail Grip Assembly

The best answer for diagnosing "power" issues really is transmitter logging with telemetry from the ESC so you can correlate stick movement data with what the power system is doing. I'm partial to Jeti Mezons and Jeti transmitters not so much for the "performance" but for the data and what I'm able to do with that data.

The 6s 600se was fun but I'm actually (slowly) working on turning it into a heavier 10s bird as was the original 600se spec from Mikado... with a few tweaks based on my experience over the years.
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Old 11-26-2017, 03:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I ordered the tri tail. Thanks

I have a Scorpion Tribunus and VControl. So I can get data from them.

I have 12S, 3300, 4000, 4400, and 5000 packs. So with low head speed I can run two 3300 packs.

With the 400 KV motor...It would be geared for 1550 to 1650 rpm. But with active free wheeling I will set it at 1250, 1450, 1650 rpm in three banks. I can just dial in 1150 rpm to try it.

What 10S pack are you going to use ?
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Old 11-26-2017, 06:09 PM   #16 (permalink)
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My plan was for Gens Ace 5s5500 packs as they're pretty light for their capacity and should fit in the newer frames.

As far as I know, the Tribunus doesn't provide throttle out telemetry which is kind of critical to understanding what the power system is doing.
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Old 11-27-2017, 07:58 PM   #17 (permalink)
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The Scorpion Tribunus provides: RPM, Throttle %, Voltage, Current, & Temperature.

STATE TRACKING shows a live view of your ESC. With the flight battery plugged in and
the ESC connected, the user is able to see Throttle, RPM of the Motor, Voltage, Current,
CPU Temperature, MOSFET Temperature, Power, and BEC Voltage of the ESC at any
time. This can be helpful especially when troubleshooting a particular problem.


LOGGING
allows the user to save and read a log from a particular flight. Users are able
to save/read Throttle Percentage, Current, Voltage, Amp/Hours, Temperature, Power,
BEC Voltage, and RPM during the flight.
For your data to show properly, make sure you
have setup your Motor Pair Poles value and Gear ratio in Help -> Preferences
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Old 11-27-2017, 08:12 PM   #18 (permalink)
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They are close in weight to the 4000 mah 6S packs. If I want it lighter I can run 3300 mah 6S packs.

Let me know how it works out....flight times.
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Old 11-27-2017, 08:23 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The Gens Ace 5500 mah 5S packs are on sale.
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Old 11-28-2017, 07:15 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I believe state tracking refers to what the system can do when connected to a PC/Android device or at least that is what the quoted portion of the manual refers to. I believe logging refers to logging of data to the internal memory in the Tribunus.

I've asked Scorpion to add throttle output percentage (aka PWM duty cycle) to the telemetry stream for a few times because at launch, the Tribunus did not have this feature. I haven't exactly been following Scorpion all that closely to see if they had added it yet or even at all.

Anyway, I do find it annoying that there is no mention in the manual, specifications or features areas for these escs as to what they send back in the telemetry stream.

I haven't actually done any math on the flight time of this bird but I had a similarly spec'd bird many years ago and I remember getting about 10 minutes. Part of the secret is that going down in voltage (depending on the motor) can be more efficient for low power draw since iron losses in the motor become more significant than the copper (I^2R) losses and the only ways to reduce iron losses is to either redesign the stator or go down in voltage.
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