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Old 05-05-2016, 09:26 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Taranis throttle trim?

I am trying to set up my throttle on a gasser and noticed I can't trim down on the TX. I can bring the trim up for starting but bringing it down it just makes it to the trim center and beeps. It will not go into negative trim to correctly program my throttle cut etc. Can anyone help? Thanks!
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Old 05-05-2016, 11:13 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Not sure on what you have for programming, but I have a kinda complex mix made by ArchmageAU for my Nitro. I wanted Throttle Cut to be -100, but then trim to be active in Throttle Hold and Normal mode and to be the same value. Have a look at my eepe on the 700 nitro and maybe it will help
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File Type: eepe Current.eepe (77.0 KB, 44 views)
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Old 05-05-2016, 11:47 AM   #3 (permalink)
 

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i have a switch that overrides throttle to -100 for throttle cut.
for throttle hold I have a knob that varies throttle from -100 to -40 that I use to set idle. makes it easy to set the throttle for starting cold.
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Old 05-05-2016, 01:48 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thank you gentlemen! I think both of your ideas would work for what I'm trying to achieve. I still think it's odd that the TX does nothing when I'm trying to go past center into negative. All of the other trim buttons go plus/minus and beep at center. Throttle is the only one that won't go into negative.
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Old 05-05-2016, 02:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
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try making a fresh model and retrying. You can figure out if it's a hardware or software problem.
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Old 05-05-2016, 03:12 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Good idea Engineer. I'll create a fake model and see how that trim button works.
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Old 05-05-2016, 06:08 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Can you post your eepe. I wana have a look and see. Do you have throttle trim idle only selected by chance?

Just did a quick test here with Throttle Trim Idle only and I think that might be your issue. On mine, with it checked, Trim doesnt go much below center. Without, all my normal program works
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Old 05-05-2016, 07:03 PM   #8 (permalink)
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That would be awesome if it is that simple! I'll check once I get my son to bed and report back. Thanks for the info!!!
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Old 05-06-2016, 02:54 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaiboxer04 View Post
I am trying to set up my throttle on a gasser and noticed I can't trim down on the TX. I can bring the trim up for starting but bringing it down it just makes it to the trim center and beeps. It will not go into negative trim to correctly program my throttle cut etc. Can anyone help? Thanks!
Gassers, nitro, or any other IC (Internal Combustion) poses a unique issue for a heli. You generally want the throttle and collective on the same stick, and 2 idle values (idle and off).

Idle is motor running, but blades not turning as clutch disengaged (think optional autorotation)

Off is motor stop, restart procedure required to get the motor going again (think mandatory autorotation).

The throttle servo will have 3 important positions:
1) Full off
2) Idle
3) Full open

Full off should be -100, full open should be +100, Idle is the tricky one.

There a two options in the logical model:
1) Range from full-off to full-open as -100 to +100 on logical throttle.
2) Range from idle to full-open as -100 to +100 on logical throttle.

In option 1, you configure trim to alter a value that the throttle will not fall below unless CUT engaged.

In option 2, you configure trim to alter the value of throttle to only vary uniformly between the IDLE and MAX values and only drop to -100 (CUT) when cut engaged.

The throttle mix for option 1 is:

CH1 (thr) [I1]Thr Weight(+100%)
+= CH11 Weight(+100%) (add)
:= MAX Weight(-100%) Switch(L1) (replace - CUT)

CH09 (TTrim) TrmT Weight (+50%) Offset(-50%)
CH10 (TComp) [I1]Thr Weight(-100%)
+= CH9 Weight(+100%)
CH11 (TAdj) CH10 Weight(+100%)
*= CH10 Weight(+50%) Offset(50%) Function(|f|)

(This adjust will keep the throttle value but stop at the throttle trim (from -100 to 0) - This should work with defined set throttle values for a governor)


The throttle mix for option 2 is:

CH1 (thr) [I1]Thr Weight(+100%)
*= TrmT Weight(-25%) Offset (75%) (multiply)
+= TrmT Weight(+25%) Offset (25%) (add)
:= MAX Weight(-100%) Switch(L1) (replace - CUT)

(This adjust will evenly vary the throttle value between idle set by throttle trim (from -100 to 0) and full throttle - This means smooth throttle through the range)


Do not use "Throttle Trim Idle Only" as this will mess up collective.

Also do not use "Extended Trims" or TrmT values will vary from -400 to +400 instead of -100 to +100.


Hope this all makes sense (and helps).
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Old 05-06-2016, 05:36 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Absolutely it helps! Thanks a million ArchmageAU!! . I can definitely get this to work with everyone's help here Once I get it working, then I would like to create a 3 position switch to do a CHOKE, IDLE and KILL setting like what Raleighcopter was referring to. That would be an awesome setup! Thanks again ArchmageAU and you other gentlemen! Have a great weekend
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Last edited by ArchmageAU; 05-06-2016 at 08:43 PM..
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Old 05-06-2016, 10:19 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaiboxer04 View Post
Absolutely it helps! Thanks a million ArchmageAU!! . I can definitely get this to work with everyone's help here Once I get it working, then I would like to create a 3 position switch to do a CHOKE, IDLE and KILL setting like what Raleighcopter was referring to. That would be an awesome setup! Thanks again ArchmageAU and you other gentlemen! Have a great weekend
You can extend what I used in the previous post to have the 3 positions.

If you do not need TrmA, TrmE or TrmR, you could use one of those to set choke level (I'd use TrmR as the tail gyro should never need trimming unless using rate mode).

I used trims for the settings as they save between TX power cycles and are model specific.

I'll try post later today on how to have both and idle and a choke setting.
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Old 05-07-2016, 09:23 AM   #12 (permalink)
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That would be fantastic ArchmageAU!! This all takes a ton of stress off my shoulders as I'm afraid to hurt this new heli. Can't thank you enough sir
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Old 05-08-2016, 06:30 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaiboxer04 View Post
That would be fantastic ArchmageAU!! This all takes a ton of stress off my shoulders as I'm afraid to hurt this new heli. Can't thank you enough sir
Some assumptions:
  • TrmR is used for CHOKE trim
  • TrmT is used for IDLE trim
  • Either CHOKE or IDLE is engaged at any one time
  • L1 is true if CUT is enabled
  • L2 is true if CHOKE is enabled (IDLE disabled)
  • L2 is false if IDLE is enabled (CHOKE disabled)
The throttle mix for option 1 is:

CH1 (thr) [I1]Thr Weight(+100%)
+= CH11 Weight(+100%) Switch(!L2) (TAdj)
+= CH14 Weight(+100%) Switch(L2) (CAdj)
:= MAX Weight(-100%) Switch(L1) (replace - CUT)

CH09 (TTrim) TrmT Weight (+50%) Offset(-50%)
CH10 (TComp) [I1]Thr Weight(-100%)
+= CH9 Weight(+100%)
CH11 (TAdj) CH10 Weight(+100%)
*= CH10 Weight(+50%) Offset(50%) Function(|f|)
CH12 (CTrim) TrmR Weight (+50%) Offset(-50%)
CH13 (CComp) [I1]Thr Weight(-100%)
+= CH12 Weight(+100%)
CH14 (CAdj) CH13 Weight(+100%)
*= CH13 Weight(+50%) Offset(50%) Function(|f|)

(This adjust will keep the throttle value but stop at the throttle trim (from -100 to 0) - This should work with defined set throttle values for a governor)



The throttle mix for option 2 is:

CH1 (thr) [I1]Thr Weight(+100%)
*= TrmT Weight(-25%) Offset (75%) Switch(!L2) (multiply)
+= TrmT Weight(+25%) Offset (25%) Switch(!L2) (add)
*= TrmR Weight(-25%) Offset (75%) Switch(L2) (multiply)
+= TrmR Weight(+25%) Offset (25%) Switch(L2) (add)
:= MAX Weight(-100%) Switch(L1) (replace - CUT)

(This adjust will evenly vary the throttle value between idle set by throttle trim (from -100 to 0) and full throttle - This means smooth throttle through the range)


Remember:
  • [I1]Thr incorporates all the throttle curves including HOLD.
  • [I5]Col (collective) incorporates all the collective/pitch curves including HOLD.
  • [I4]Rud must be NoTrim (like [I1]Thr and [I5]Col)

eg.
[I1]Thr MAX Weight(-100%) Switch(SHup) NoTrim [Hold]
Thr Weight(100%) Curve(1) Switch(SAup) NoTrim [Normal]
Thr Weight(100%) Curve(2) Switch(SA-) NoTrim [IU1]
Thr Weight(100%) Curve(3) Switch(SAdn) NoTrim [IU2]

[I4]Rud Rud Weight(100%) NoTrim [Rudder]

[I5]Col Thr Weight(100%) Curve(5) Switch(SHup) NoTrim [Hold]
Thr Weight(100%) Curve(4) Switch(SAup) NoTrim [Normal]
Thr Weight(100%) Curve(5) Switch(SA-) NoTrim [IU1]
Thr Weight(100%) Curve(5) Switch(SAdn) NoTrim [IU2]


Earlier post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageAU View Post
..

In option 1, you configure trim to alter a value that the throttle will not fall below unless CUT engaged.

In option 2, you configure trim to alter the value of throttle to only vary uniformly between the IDLE and MAX values and only drop to -100 (CUT) when cut engaged.

The throttle mix for option 1 is:

CH1 (thr) [I1]Thr Weight(+100%)
+= CH11 Weight(+100%) (add)
:= MAX Weight(-100%) Switch(L1) (replace - CUT)

CH09 (TTrim) TrmT Weight (+50%) Offset(-50%)
CH10 (TComp) [I1]Thr Weight(-100%)
+= CH9 Weight(+100%)
CH11 (TAdj) CH10 Weight(+100%)
*= CH10 Weight(+50%) Offset(50%) Function(|f|)

(This adjust will keep the throttle value but stop at the throttle trim (from -100 to 0) - This should work with defined set throttle values for a governor)


The throttle mix for option 2 is:

CH1 (thr) [I1]Thr Weight(+100%)
*= TrmT Weight(-25%) Offset (75%) (multiply)
+= TrmT Weight(+25%) Offset (25%) (add)
:= MAX Weight(-100%) Switch(L1) (replace - CUT)

(This adjust will evenly vary the throttle value between idle set by throttle trim (from -100 to 0) and full throttle - This means smooth throttle through the range)

...
Hope this clarifies things and helps.
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