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Heads and Rotor Blades Heads and Rotor Blades Discussion


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Old 08-26-2016, 03:52 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Swashplate Gone Rouge

So I am a rookie hooking up all these electronics together for the first time and this is what my stash olate keeps doing every time I plug the battery in.

Furthermore, there isn't a single bit of instruction in the user manual of the helicopter or the DX8 box telling me what servo goes into what plug. The gyro manual tells me plug in the gain with the rudder. What's the gain? Is the rudder the same thing as tail rotor? The tail rotor servo is plugged into the opposite side of the Gy520, so again what's the rudder? I finally, after many attempts, got my receiver to bind to my transmitter. Why does the swashplate go all out of whack when I plug the battery in? I tried going through the sub trim setting in the tx setup like I had read on here and seen in a video, but 0-200 barely even moves the servo arm. I made sure that the servos were installed they were centered (in the middle).
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Old 08-26-2016, 07:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
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What kind of heli?
We need more information in order to figure this out.
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Old 08-26-2016, 07:41 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Yes, more info.
Post your radio settings and your rx pinouts, in other words which pins the servos are plugged into.

We can also help you setup that head, for instance putting the swash follower on properly (part of it is on backwards) and setting the phasing.


Steve
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Old 08-26-2016, 08:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Info update

This is a clone trex. Flasher 450SE V2 "KX015042TA"
Front left is hooked to rudder. Front right is on aileron.rear is hooked to elevator. Tail is hooked into one side of the gy520. The other side says gain and rudder I believe but I don't have anything hooked into gyro opposite the side the tail is hooked into. I just bought a Spektrum DX8 with AR8000 receiver. 3x hitec hs65mg 1x hitec hs56hb. Phoenix ice50 esc. Scorpion HKII-2221-12 motor.

On the radio I've binded the receiver. Selected helicopter and named it. I've selected 3servo 120* swashplate, and that's it. most the book talks about sail planes and regular planes. I don't have internet here because I'm on vacation, so I can't YouTube any of this.
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Old 08-26-2016, 09:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
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One of the things is to make sure you have is the swashplate type correct. It's usually either normal or 3 servo 120. Then you will need to set proper mixing. I just went through this again today on a used 400 3D I purchased. BTW .. I just did a test hover under the light in my backyard. All good.

I always stay away from using sub trim if at all possible. I like my mechanics right manually as much as possible.
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Old 08-26-2016, 10:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyinRob901 View Post
Front left is hooked to rudder. Front right is on aileron.rear is hooked to elevator. Tail is hooked into one side of the gy520. The other side says gain and rudder I believe but I don't have anything hooked into gyro opposite the side the tail is hooked into.
Just to be clear, you are saying, looking from the top down, the front left servo is hooked to pin 4 (rudder) on your receiver?

If so, that servo should be hooked to pin 6 (pitch) on your receiver.

When you are referring to the tail, that is the rudder.

Front left servo on the swash = pitch
front right servo on the swash = aileron
Rear servo on the swash = elevator

Your rudder servo plugs into tail rotor port on the 520
Pin 4 plugs into tail rotor channel on the 520
Pin 5 plugs into gain channel on the 520


Receiver pinout

1 Throttle = ESC
2 Aileron = swash front right
3 Elevator = rear swash
4 Rudder = tail
5 Gear = gyro mode
6 Pitch = swash front right

I don't mean to sound like I'm telling you what to do, but your best bet is to setup a 2 blade head first. Later you can learn to setup a 5 blade head.

Steve
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Old 08-26-2016, 10:34 PM   #7 (permalink)
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nevermind, you have an FBL head... Posted a link that didn't apply.
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Consecutive Successful Flights (Max) = 145
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Old 08-26-2016, 11:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
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@ERRATIC thanks so much! This will give me a new start. I don't know anything about the radio tbh.
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Old 08-27-2016, 01:31 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Gy520 isn't that for a flybar setup?
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Old 08-27-2016, 05:50 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bm21 View Post
Gy520 isn't that for a flybar setup?
Yes, but this bird will fly fine with it if setup properly.


@ FlyinRob....Is this your first setup or have you flown CCPM before?

Look here.......

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=41692

And here.......

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=354008


Steve
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Old 08-27-2016, 01:12 PM   #11 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=ERRATIC;7102185]Yes, but this bird will fly fine with it if setup properly

I'm going to say this is his first set up. However the help on this forum is outstanding so I don't doubt he'll get her up. Will it be easy to control for just starting? I've never tried a multi blade head or a flybarless with no controller.
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Old 08-27-2016, 05:50 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bm21 View Post
Will it be easy to control for just starting? I've never tried a multi blade head or a flybarless with no controller.
Actually it will be a b!tch for a beginner but very doable in the right hands.

It would be to FlyinRob's advantage to head over to the scale section.

There are a lot of very knowledgeable members there that have setup multi-blade heads.
I also have the very same head on a 450 FlyinRob has but am using a V-Bar.
But those heads can handle just a tail gyro with a lot of TLC.

Steve
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Old 08-28-2016, 01:23 AM   #13 (permalink)
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My first two Align Trex450 SE V2s were stolen in a house break in when I was in Afghanistan. It's been a few years since I've been in the hobby, so new technology has evolved and needless to say I don't know what I've forgotten and what I remember (that's still useful anyways). Align had a very good set of instructions and I enjoyed flying them. Plus, I'm a helicopter pilot in real life so I understand the concepts. I've asked if I've needed a flybarless electronic (I assume that's what you guys mean when you say FBL), and I've got mixed answers. I've figured out that people are doing it both ways and they are doing fine either way given the proper know how.

I must ask @ERRATIC I never fully understood what you said I had on backwards. Can you post a picture of your five blade head so I can compare? I assembled the head without any instructions as there were none that came with the product. I put it together simply by copying what the picture of it looked like.

Once again I want to thank everybody so much for helping me out here. Going after a scale project while so rusty I admit probably isn't the easiest/smartest decision. I bought an additional 450 SE V2 with the flybarless to practice with.
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Old 08-28-2016, 01:32 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Default 5blade head help request

It's been suggested that I move over to the scale section for further help. I'm having problems with my swashplate going crazy when I plug the battery up. Please search for "Swashplate Gone Rouge" in the forums to better understand (with a picture) of the first half of this story. That I way I don't have to retype it all out on an iPad.

Do you need the beast x for a 5blade rotor system?

Is two blade tail rotor on a 450 electric going to be enough anti-torque? I've seen em fly both ways.
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Old 08-28-2016, 08:30 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Hi FlyinRob,

First off, thank you for your service to our country!

Here is an old pic of the follower before I upgraded it.
If you notice the mast clamp retaining bolt is on the opposite side of the washout arm. That is the way it should go.
I did the same as you, following the picture on the website I bought the head from (which was wrong)...




Here is the upgrade follower I installed which locked the phasing in much better...







Here is a video on mechanical phase adjustment for a 5 blade setup.

Multi blade head phasing (1 min 28 sec)


Also if you decide to move over to flight controller like a V-Bar, you will have the option of adjusting the phasing electronically in the controller.

Also check out Finless Bob's videos on setting up flybar heads, 2 blade 3 blade or 100 blade, the basics are all the same.




https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=132747


Always remember
Build from the ground up.....

Servos centered at 90 deg.
Swash plate centered in the travel
Swash follower horizontal arm 90 deg to mast
Washout arm parallel to mast
Blade holder arms 90 deg to mast and level to each other.

It takes a lot of tinkering/tuning to get the perfect setup and we know you can handle it!

Hope this helps!


Steve
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Old 08-28-2016, 09:35 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Hi:

From what I see from your picture, you have some linkage issues to clear up first. Your two front links look to be way too short for the setup. They should start at the original lengths of the model and then you might only need to fine adjust them once you get the head in place. I agree with the one fellow that your swash driver is too far out and one made up from a shorter arm is going to be a better sulution but it could be simply that you have the arm backwards as to where it should be set. You need to post more pictures of the swash plate without the head and with the radio on and at rest. Also, a picture of the swash driver removed from the shaft so it can be seen how it is setup. I am sure that everything came with the head so it should be a tighter setup and not sticking out like a sore thumb. While true, you can fly it without a flybarless gyro like a BeastX, there is more work flying than enjoying in my opinion. Without these pictures, it will be very difficult to help you with sorting it out. Take care.

Don
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Old 08-28-2016, 10:23 AM   #17 (permalink)
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FlyInRob,

I would like to echo what ERRATIC said:
Thank You For Your Service.

Hang in there. These guys know what they're talking about.
You'll have the heli flying before too long.
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Old 08-28-2016, 12:24 PM   #18 (permalink)
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@Keyrigger I am so sorry, but I didn't understand anything you mentioned. The two front servo links on the swashplate are too short? I still don't know what's on backwards. I have my servos centered and the swashplate level right. Then I plug the battery in and the swashplate shoots up as high as it'll go on the back link and the front left link. Jammed all the way up can't be the neutral position. I'll assume it didn't come with everything because I've had to take links off my original two blade head to put on this Heli to get it together. None of my brand new servos came with the balls to connect the links too either, so those too had to be salvaged. This is a frustrating hobby to say the least. I'll try to take some more pictures and post em after lunch.
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Old 08-29-2016, 01:48 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
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ID:	668875 you need to remove the head assembly and swing it back across its self reinstall it and the head.
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Old 08-29-2016, 10:09 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Oh! Thank you @Bm21
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