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Old 09-02-2016, 11:16 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 250 CFX Initial Impressions

I posted report on my first 4 flights and then some piro testing this morning, over in the 230 S Forum under 250 CFX has been released last night.

Thanks for the shiny new forum Jim! I wanted to start a thread here for people who get the new 250 CFX to post their initial impressions. There are always early adopters (like me) and people who want to hear about it first. This thread will give way to more detail threads I am sure, but this is the "I got it home and this is what I think so far" thread.
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Old 09-02-2016, 12:20 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 09-02-2016, 02:10 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I am re posting this report here so that people looking for 250 CFX information can more easily find it.

I made 4 quick flights when I got home after the usual setup and tight checks. This is not intended to be a review, just initial impression.

Set up by the book, (Except I put my stability, Agility and 3D Mode on a separate switch) I like independent control of the head speed and the mode. I used a Venom 1300, and Eflite 1350, and a Mad Dog 1300 (3S) for batteries. The Mad Dog was a little heavier, but not much. The Venom was my favorite, probably because it was lighter. I used my DX9 radio.

My first take off was not using Stability Mode, in case there was the disk leaning thing like there is in the 230 S. I did not want to trash a brand new set of carbon fiber blades before I got to fly it. In Agility, Normal, a little above 50% collective and she took off clean. She hovered great which indicated the swash plate leveling was good. I switched to Stability Mode and she was solid. I bought the 230S the day it came out, and there was that drift issue that I have since fixed with the leveling procedure.) I flew around a bit testing the bank limiting and it felt like I was flying the 200 SRX. Solid. (not my preferred method of flying)

Back to Agility, mid rates and IU1 (80%), and the heli came alive. I instantly noticed it was more collective happy than the 230 S. I jerked it around a bit and the tail was very authoritative. It seemed tighter than my 230 S... but it has been rebuilt several times (hey, it is a training helo) It may have more collective pop than my 300 CFX, but that may be because the 250 CFX is lighter. It was very nimble at this setting. I flew some circuits and it tracked well. It seemed very familiar. at times like my 230 S and other times like my 300 CFX... and it should as it is a mash up of the two.

3D mode at IU1 was very responsive. Went to IU2 and jerked it around, very nice, crisp. Then to IU2, 3D Mode and high rates. A BIG loop, plenty of power for high speed entry into a loop. Then a half loop and inverted. Then a couple of forward and backwards flips and a stall turn. Then (at altitude) hard collective positive-negative-positive to test the response and it popped. (not like a Oxy 3 Cubed, but very nice).

4 minutes 30 seconds... tested the Venom battery, 48% 6 minute flights are easy, but mileage will vary depending on how hard you are flying.

OK, now the things you are waiting for. The things that make it ...unique. First, it does have that behavior on the ground in stability mode that some people don't like about the 230 S. I have never had my 230 S tip over on the ground, but I 'fly" the rotor disk while spooling up. As soon as it starts creating lift, I am on the sticks. As soon as the rpm comes up, I am flying regardless if the skids are touching the ground. I tried it on the 250 CFX and it did not seem as bad, but I would never just let it go to find out. Several tame stability mode take offs completed. IF you are not used to flying the A23X stability mode on take off, do yourself a favor and get some Lynx Plastic blades to start with so you don't trash a $30 USD set of carbon fiber blades right off the bat. )Or take off in Agility Mode if you are ready for that.)

Sound... very odd. No, I am not talking about the verti-bird sound the motorized tail makes (which is just like the 230 S), but main shaft drive line has a very peculiar sound. I loosened the main gear pinion mesh to see if that was it and it did not. (You don't need to do that) It is loud, and it is harmonic driven (it pulsates at different frequencies as you increase and decrease RPM in Normal.) I don't know how to describe it but my wife came out and said "sounds like something is loose." I told her I checked everything and she said, "well it sounds like it is coming apart". I am curious to see if it is mine or if other people have the same sound. The sound is much louder with the canopy on. For the record, there was no vibration visible on the skids or tail fin. I think it is just the motor, pinion, main gear combo. There were no negative effects other than it scared a rabbit out of the bush.

Light was fading and I only got in a few quick flights. My initial impression. Fun. If you liked the 230 S you will like this one. I think the additional power and the crispness of the stiffer frame and blades is welcomed. Out of the box, the AS3X seemed to be spot on (no drift, and really good for that nose-in hover practice.) I did test the Panic mode once, and it snapped right into level attitude. If you liked the 300 CFX, you will like it as it is very familiar feeling. If you really like the Gaui X5 V2, then this is probably not your heli.
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Old 09-02-2016, 02:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Nice!... Thanks for your report!
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Old 09-02-2016, 03:36 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Taking off slowly is not easy, you have to be on the sticks. I can tell I will need to tune some things up but not bad out of the box. Yes, it is noisy for some reason. I will look into it, hate noise, makes me think something is vibrating. I noticed there are two thick layers of sponge under the receiver. Is this normal?
I like the soft flexible tail fin, keeps it from breaking when bouncing around the driveway.

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Old 09-02-2016, 04:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by aehaas View Post
Taking off slowly is not easy, you have to be on the sticks. I can tell I will need to tune some things up but not bad out of the box. Yes, it is noisy for some reason. I will look into it, hate noise, makes me think something is vibrating. I noticed there are two thick layers of sponge under the receiver. Is this normal?
I like the soft flexible tail fin, keeps it from breaking when bouncing around the driveway.

aehaas
Two thick layers of that 3M Gyro mount stuff under my A23X unit also. I guess they are trying to pad the stabilization sensors. I am sorry yours makes that noise too, but I am glad it is not just mine. I said previously that it was the motor, pinion and main gear combination, but I think it is the motor, pinion, main gear and frame combination. I am going to get a Microheli Delrin main gear in it and see if that changes anything. . I will report back when it comes.
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Old 09-02-2016, 04:24 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I tried some Lynx 3D Plastic blades and the worked well for sport flying. These were intended for the 300 CFX, which uses the same blades as the 250 CFX. If you are using this heli as a trainer, then Lynx plastic blades are half the price of the Stock Carbon Fiber. Once you are flying with more confidence, put on your stock blades and they will be fresh.

Also, the balance my 250 CFX out of the box was spot on and she piros nicely (using Venom 1300 3S). I still may check the swash leveling because I always do on a new heli.
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Old 09-02-2016, 05:50 PM   #8 (permalink)
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A couple of people have asked me about the tail authority. In the 3D Mode it holds good. In the Agility mode, if you are hovering and go to 100% collective, the tail will blows out a little. With that said, the agility modes seems to be for sport flying and if you don't fly hard (3D like maneuvers) in that mode, the tail works fine. In 3D Mode, doing the same test (hover to 100% collective) the tail holds.

I believe from the videos and literature, that the response time of the servos is tamer in agility (slower). This includes the rudder. When you switch it to 3D mode, the servo response is quicker and so is the tail motor response. In 3D mode, high rates, and IU2 (100%).. It performs well. In Agility mode, when sport flying, including loops and flips, it performed well.
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Old 09-03-2016, 08:04 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks for sharing! I'm curious how you find the max pitch and roll rates on the 250 vs. the 230.

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Old 09-03-2016, 12:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I will be glad to compare the two as soon as the wind calms down. From my early flights, I did not notice a significant difference, I thought the 250 CFX was a more responsive, but I need more flying time to say for sure. I can say yaw in 3d mode / high rates was the same(piros).
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Old 09-03-2016, 03:20 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Thanks for sharing! I'm curious how you find the max pitch and roll rates on the 250 vs. the 230.

Finally the calm after the storm. (Winds have calmed) I just flew two batteries through my 230 S and two batteries through my 250 CFX. The cyclic response seems quicker on the 250 CFX. I think the over all pitch and roll is quicker. I was using IU2, highest rates and highest mode on both helis. Then I flew two batteries through the 300 CFX. While the 250 CFX cyclic response is the same as the 300 CFX, the 250 is lighter in the air, but the 300 CFX feels more... crisp. I am sure that is the belt driven tail.
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Old 09-03-2016, 06:43 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Ordered one and it's at the Post Office. Can't wait to pick it up on Monday. Did you guys follow the setup exactly like the manual or was there some tweaking?
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Old 09-03-2016, 06:57 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Ordered one and it's at the Post Office. Can't wait to pick it up on Monday.
Tuesday.
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Old 09-03-2016, 07:11 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Ordered one and it's at the Post Office. Can't wait to pick it up on Monday. Did you guys follow the setup exactly like the manual or was there some tweaking?
Remember Monday is a holiday. I leave my garage door open when I'm expecting a package from USPS so they can't say nobody was home or there wasn't a secure location to leave it.
I take it they didn't deliver it today and left you that pink note. I've had that happen especially when there is a substitute running late.
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Old 09-03-2016, 07:46 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Ordered one and it's at the Post Office. Can't wait to pick it up on Monday. Did you guys follow the setup exactly like the manual or was there some tweaking?
The manual is incorrect for the DX6. It shows only 2 positions when it should have a 3-position switch assigned to flight modes.

If you have a 230S already set-up, the easy/fast way is to copy the 230S model, rename it to 250cfx and then change the throttle/pitch curves. Took me about 5 minutes on a DX6-G2!

Flys great and all functions that worked on the 230S now work on the 250cfx including Panic/Rescue! Fully tested!
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Old 09-04-2016, 09:25 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Ordered one and it's at the Post Office. Can't wait to pick it up on Monday. Did you guys follow the setup exactly like the manual or was there some tweaking?
I set it up per the manual with a tweaks listed here. I wanted independent control of the Stabilization Mode, the Rates, and the Throttle/Pitch Curve. Also, I wanted three rate settings. I am using a DX9, but I think you can do this on other radios. I did this for my 230 S and 200 SRX as well.

FIRST.... I used Servo Travel per the manual (100s across the board). When I first started flying, someone told me to turn these down to make the heli less sensitive. While that worked, later, I found myself having to learn the muscle memory all over again when I turned them up. So, set these where you are comfortable. I went with the manual.

I put the Throttle Curve and Pitch Curve on Switch B as per the manual. (Normal, Idle Up 1, and Idle Up 2) I used the curves from the manual for these.

**NOTE I am not recommending that you do this,, this is just what I did to separate the Stabilization from the Flight Mode. The Stabilization mode is communicated on the GEAR channel. The manual says to put this to Switch B to coincide with The Flight Mode. I like to be able to use NORMAL without the Stability Mode if I want so I assigned the Gear to Switch D. Now I have lots of options for Flight Mode and Stabilization Mode. (Stability, Agility, and 3D mode, for each flight mode, Normal, IU1, and IU2. Switch D is the long 3 position toggle over the left stick.

I did the same thing with the Rates. I wanted independent control of the rates, regardless of Flight mode, or Stabilization Mode. So I assigned the rates to switch E. (Long 3 position toggle over the right stick. ) If you are comfortable using Switch D for your rates, Swap Switch D and E above.... Stabilization (Gear Channel) on Switch E, rates on Switch D.

For the Rates, since I had independent control, I did not use the manual. I used Low-DR75/Expo25, Mid-DR90/Expo25, and High-DR100/Expo25 for all three (Aileron, Elevator, Rudder)

By doing this, I now have tons of options. For example, take off in Normal, Agility mode (no self righting, less tipping) and Mid rates. Or for fast circuits, IU2, Agility Mode, Mid rates. or for Slower circuits / Longer flights, IU1, Agility Mode, Mid Rates. And you still have Iu2, 3D Mode, Hi rates when needed. Lots of combinations to get the most out of the heli.

Now, if you don't like this setup, or you just want to flip one switch and progress all three items from super docile to 3D, then use the manual settings. Nothing wrong with simplicity.
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Old 09-04-2016, 11:35 PM   #17 (permalink)
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The manual is incorrect for the DX6. It shows only 2 positions when it should have a 3-position switch assigned to flight modes.

If you have a 230S already set-up, the easy/fast way is to copy the 230S model, rename it to 250cfx and then change the throttle/pitch curves. Took me about 5 minutes on a DX6-G2!

Flys great and all functions that worked on the 230S now work on the 250cfx including Panic/Rescue! Fully tested!
Bill,

I have a question that maybe a little off topic, but seeing you copied the 230 S file and renamed it and of course tweaked the required settings, I must ask what version of firmware are they using in the 250 CFX receiver which I believe is the same AR636 used in the 230 S.

That information is much appreciated.
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Old 09-05-2016, 08:17 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Bill,

I have a question that maybe a little off topic, but seeing you copied the 230 S file and renamed it and of course tweaked the required settings, I must ask what version of firmware are they using in the 250 CFX receiver which I believe is the same AR636 used in the 230 S.

That information is much appreciated.
Good Morning!

Just finished flying 4 packs and checked the 250cfx firmware..... it is 4.32.

Not be be mistaken with the 230S which is 4.23.

I'm beginning to really like the 250! Getting used to the loudness. Flew one pack without the canopy and the sound is definitely a resonance with the canopy. I'll figure out a way to break the frequencies up so that it's not so loud. Without canopy, motors sound really good, CF blades sound even better.
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Old 09-05-2016, 09:47 AM   #19 (permalink)
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If you have a 230S already set-up, the easy/fast way is to copy the 230S model, rename it to 250cfx and then change the throttle/pitch curves. Took me about 5 minutes on a DX6-G2!
Well, that answers all the questions about whether or not the 230S AR636 unit would work in a 250CFX frame because of the different servo layout. It appears as if it would work fine if a 230S file works with no servo reversing, etc.
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Old 09-05-2016, 10:40 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Good Morning!

Just finished flying 4 packs and checked the 250cfx firmware..... it is 4.32.

Not be be mistaken with the 230S which is 4.23.

I'm beginning to really like the 250! Getting used to the loudness. Flew one pack without the canopy and the sound is definitely a resonance with the canopy. I'll figure out a way to break the frequencies up so that it's not so loud. Without canopy, motors sound really good, CF blades sound even better.
And a good morning to you as well Bill, sounds like your really enjoying the new member of your fleet there, I'm sure you will find a way to break up the frequencies and eliminate some of the harmonics associated with the loud sounds being produced. It seems that some canopies especially the FG ones act like amplifiers.

Its not a surprise that the firmware would be different even though the same receiver and ESC are being used as well as a slightly larger disk diameter and larger main motor. Also the different servo arrangement I would think comes into play as well.

I just got the 230 S Night bird, so I am going to probably wait until the new year when the LHS has some holiday sales prices and pick one up, also a great time to purchase some extra parts.

Again thanks for the information Bill, and enjoy some great flying.

Kevin
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