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Old 09-07-2016, 12:10 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Mark, yes I do remember you very well. I'm glad we crossed paths. Nice to chat with you!

I'm real interested in running the VTX blades in very FFF. Not been done yet. At low AOA they can be pushed MUCH faster. My CFD studies to date have not addressed low AOA and very high rpm ... at least what you've proposed is outside the design envelope I use for traditional blade design. Would you be interested in sharing a bit of data off-board?

The 557's have been released to Funkey for production. We still need some flight test time to dial in blade weight and cg though. We're still waiting for pre-production blades to arrive...
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Old 09-07-2016, 02:11 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mkovalcson View Post
Related to that question can the 717's withstand 2700 rpm head speeds?

I wouldn't want to run them past their design limits. I saw what happens when you do that on the flight line at IRCHA when an overspeed blew a set of SAB blades apart.
Since VTX are manufactured by Fun-Key, I confidently say they can and will withstand more than your power system can throw at them. Fun-Key builds roots from massive carbon fiber rovings laid around the bolt hole, which also make up the leading edge D-spar of the blade.

I'd bet anything on your rotor head tearing apart before a Fun-Key blade fails from centrifugal loads.

Here's the root of a VTX 717 cut open. For me it is, as any Fun-Key blade, beyond all possible doubt.

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Old 09-07-2016, 02:53 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I'd bet anything on your rotor head tearing apart before a Fun-Key blade fails from centrifugal loads.
That's good to know.

But be careful making claims like that.

Have you looked at the head of a TDR2 ?
Start with 4 x Jesus bolts holding the head on a 16mm main shaft...

Personally I believe the blade bolt or blade would fail well before the rotor head does.

But your point is made,it's a stout blade.

Given that Bill doesn't think that it is well suited for speed and the fact I still have a learning curve ahead of me, I think I'll stick with my X713S speed blades for now on that one heli, but use VTX on my other helis if the blade is available in the right size.

I have no doubt that Bill could design a fantastic speed blade if it was a priority for him. For example building in enough drag to create a decent blade fart would definitely not be a priority for speed. It would be all about efficiency at very high head speeds.

BTW I agree that the VTX blades are great for FFF.
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Old 09-07-2016, 03:57 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Mark - exactly right. I'm just the "aero guy" around here. I do the aerodynamics and airframe/propulsive matching but thats all. I'm not even a good heli pilot. Ryan Witchey does all the computer solid modeling and graphic design.

Funkey is 100% the structural designer of our blades. We only give them the NC files to cut tooling, and our target blade weight and CG numbers. Funkey knows how to build a good blade for sure, but nobody @ VTX Designs can make any structural claims or publish structural related data.

And, yes, I have some ideas about how to design a good speed blade. Elliptical taper planform, heavily twisted, cambered, swept transonic tips - they'd be sexy for sure! Why hasn't it been done yet?

edit: Good post Jonas! Nice to show the internal structure - they're nicely built for sure.

Last edited by VTX Designs; 09-07-2016 at 04:51 PM.. Reason: added comments
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Old 09-07-2016, 04:07 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Mark - exactly right. I'm just the "aero guy" around here. I do the aerodynamics and airframe/propulsive matching but thats all. I'm not even a good heli pilot. Ryan Witchey does all the computer solid modeling and graphic design.

Funkey is 100% the structural designer of our blades. We only give them the NC files to cut tooling, and our target blade weight and CG numbers. Funkey knows how to build a good blade for sure, but nobody @ VTX Designs can make any structural claims or publish structural related data.

And, yes, I have some ideas about how to design a good speed blade. Elliptical taper planform, heavily twisted, cambered, swept transonic tips - they'd be sexy for sure! Why hasn't it been done yet?
These are probably the closest I've seen to what you just described, but they are not in production. They appeared to do well at high speed, but I'm sure that the 24 carrot gold plated Kosmik had something to do with the speeds it was going

Why do I have the feeling that others will be complaining that I'm distracting you from the blades that they want ?



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Old 09-07-2016, 04:31 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Well, I can't really comment on others' blades here, but I will say those don't even resemble something that I'd design. Best left to another thread... thx again Mark.
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Old 09-07-2016, 04:34 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Well, I can't really comment on others' blades here, but I will say those don't even resemble something that I'd design. Best left to another thread... thx again Mark.
Why does that comment put a huge grin on my face ?

OK another thread another time!

Back to the cool VTX blades that are coming out!
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Old 09-07-2016, 05:51 PM   #28 (permalink)
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that the 24 carrot gold plated Kosmik
Mark. You're awesome. Gave me the best laugh in a long time

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Old 09-07-2016, 06:10 PM   #29 (permalink)
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For that kind of money, I sure hope they are organic.
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Old 09-07-2016, 10:16 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Thumbs up More about Bill and some VTX history

Hello,

I appreciate the warm welcome everyone has given Bill. It is obvious that I do not need to let you know about his technical competency! However, if you will allow me, I would like to let you know a little more about him.

I met Bill around 2000/2001. Of course, it was at the local r/c field. He had the most meticulously built flight box you have ever seen. I swear it was made on a precision mill. Later I would find that is completely normal in his workshop

Some of the things you don't know is how far his expertise stretches. To say he is an accomplished full scale pilot is an understatement. Military jet instructor, test pilot, aerobatics in WWII aircraft and on and on. Any given weekend you can find him hammering away on a radial engine with a wing attached (1465hp T-28) or flying well suited travelers internationally in a Boeing 777.

As a craftsman, you have the jack of all trades. Whether it be amazing woodworking or aluminum work on the RV-8 aircraft he is building, it is done right and better than you can imagine.

As a person, none are finer. My wife says my attention to detail is borderline insanity. Bill and I can share a room at the funny farm! He has been through the best of times and worst of times with me and my family. I am incredibly proud and honored to have him as one of my best friends in the entire world.

Just so we keep on topic, I will throw something in about the blades... A little step back in time.

When the very first seed for these blades was planted I was asked if I could design the best blades in the world. Being a product designer and mechanical engineer I knew I could create a set, but needed the right ingredients. My response was simple- "Yes... if you let me do it my way. Do them the right way".

"That is the only way we would have it" is the response I got.

What is 'the right way' you ask? From my experience in many fields over the years it is worth the money to get the very best person for the job when your goal is to design and produce the very best product money can buy. I knew, as a designer, engineer and pilot that the number one requirement is we get a real life, no BS aerodynamicist. Not an r/c pilot, not someone who has a great idea, not someone who has all of the intuition in the world or read an article about some new whiz bang military stealth concept. I wanted the best and although Bill is an r/c pilot, I knew he would not approach this as one. I also knew his expertise and open mind would be perfect. Add to this the fact that we work very well together, have very little overlap in expertise and communicate very well - I think it is obvious why this collaboration began.

Part II tomorrow!
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Old 09-07-2016, 10:40 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Any plans for F3C blades?
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Old 09-07-2016, 10:56 PM   #32 (permalink)
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No plans for F3C at this time.
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Old 09-07-2016, 11:02 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Mark. You're awesome. Gave me the best laugh in a long time

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Old 09-07-2016, 11:43 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by usaf_aggie View Post
..."duh! why haven't we been doing that!" ...

...Twist.... hmmm that would be an interesting one to study.... probably wouldn't do a 3d bird much good, but for speed blades, you could look at more asymmetric airfoil and planform geometry! (of course if it could be built cheap enough!)...
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...And, yes, I have some ideas about how to design a good speed blade. Elliptical taper planform, heavily twisted, cambered, swept transonic tips - they'd be sexy for sure! Why hasn't it been done yet?...
Hey wait a second! I asked you that question first! And looks like I have part of the formula down... wheres my cut
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Old 09-08-2016, 12:08 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Ryan - thank you for the very kind words. Its been fun hasn't it?

Just to expound a bit more on the overall effort: putting an industry leading product out like this is no small undertaking. In our case, its a full team at work. A team made up of professionals in a number of diverse but interrelated fields.

First and foremost, Ryan has been my personal mentor through all of this. He's a world class engineer - a product design specialist par excellence. Its been a true highlight of my life to have done this project with him. He does all of the solid / surface modeling PLUS the artwork and graphics. Not to mention he's one hell of a great pilot. All of the first flights done on spanking brand new blade designs have been flown by Ryan. (although he DID borrow my Logo480 to test fly the VTX477's )

Kenneth and staff at Funkey manufacture our blades - and they definitely deserve a shout-out here for working so hard with us to produce these wide chord designs. I am not at liberty to speak openly about what makes our blades structurally unique, other than to say the extra cost associated with VTX blades is partially due to extra effort taken to ensure a very high level of precision in the finished product geometry.

And of course we have a very small group of pilots who are hand picked to test fly our blades. The list is short - and we listen very carefully to their flight reports. If a blade comes up short in any area, we re-work it. Its not even a question.

Overseeing all of this circus is VTX Designs. Kudos to the company officers for allowing us the latitude to get out here and mix it up with y'all on the forum.

- Bill W.
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Old 09-08-2016, 01:46 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Hey bill,



do you currently have plans for other size blades? Im especially interested in 600s and 630s.



Also, where can i find your distributors for eu?
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Old 09-08-2016, 04:14 AM   #37 (permalink)
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What is embarrassing is that Ryan showed me a prototype VTX blade about a year ago and the best response I could come up with was that it looked interesting and seemed a bit heavy.

Ryan, I can't apologize enough for my lack of enthusiasm and I appreciate the fact that you took this all the way from concept to completion and found the right talent to get it done!
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Old 09-08-2016, 05:11 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Hey bill,



do you currently have plans for other size blades? Im especially interested in 600s and 630s.



Also, where can i find your distributors for eu?
Mikado Germany will sell them soon...
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Old 09-08-2016, 06:40 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Outstanding work guys!
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Old 09-08-2016, 07:08 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Great thread...but i feel stupid now.
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