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Old 11-03-2016, 10:26 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default FBL unit on Flybar head

Ok, so I just got a flybar head for a 700 to play around with and might get another 700 and use the flybar on it. The question is, can I take a FBL unit that I already have, put cyclic gain to zero, and use it with the flybar head? This would allow me to take advantage of the smart FBL governor and good tail and let me just use two satellites instead of going out and buying a $100 receiver. As well as making FBL conversion super easy if I decided to do it. Would that work with gain at zero? Talking MSH Brain or Vbar.
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Old 11-03-2016, 10:35 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I don't see a reason it wouldn't work.
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Old 11-03-2016, 10:41 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The Vbar cyclic gain set to 0 does turn off the gyro. Tested and confirmed that on the NEO.
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Old 11-03-2016, 11:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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On NEO, you should also zero paddle sim and elev precomp

http://www.vstabi.info/forum/read.php?44,154188

And if you have rescue, it will work too.
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Old 11-04-2016, 12:03 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Legacy VBar does NOT support flybarred heads, ONLY the Neo does.

Brain I think have a specific setting for flybarred heads.
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Old 11-04-2016, 12:07 AM   #6 (permalink)
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In principle you cannot. FBL perform a feedback loop while the servos hooked to a standard rx act as pure feed forward, being the stabilisation embedded in the mechanics of the head.
Vbar NEO is the only FBL that really switches off the gyro setting the gain to zero. Thus it will let direct control from your thumbs.
Turning the gain to zero on others might not be the same thing.
Perhaps Brain come with a similar feature
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Old 11-04-2016, 02:03 AM   #7 (permalink)
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NEO isn't the only one, the Spartan Vortex can be used on a flybarred heli too.

With any FBL you could always just connect the rudder servo to the FBL, and the swash servos to your receiver and run the swash the traditional way with mixing in your radio.
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Old 11-04-2016, 04:29 AM   #8 (permalink)
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On the MSH Brain/ Ikon you can set the Forward Feed Gain to 100. From the software description, "This parameter sets the part of the command that goes directly to the head, without gyro filtering." Setting this to 100 will remove all the gyro filtering, there is a separate setting for aileron and elevator in each setup bank.
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Old 11-04-2016, 07:10 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I have set up a demon 3sx with rescue mode enabled on a fb Heli. This setup worked great very stable

Brendan
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Old 11-04-2016, 07:18 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myxiplx View Post
NEO isn't the only one, the Spartan Vortex can be used on a flybarred heli too.

With any FBL you could always just connect the rudder servo to the FBL, and the swash servos to your receiver and run the swash the traditional way with mixing in your radio.
Bavarian Demon 3sx also works for flybar helis. There is an explicit selection in the setup software to specify that it is on a flybar machine and it configures itself properly. FBL stabilization is off but you retain the option to use the self leveling and rescue.
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Old 11-04-2016, 07:44 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I own several Beast x controllers they can be used as a gyro only,setup is right in the manual.
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Old 11-04-2016, 08:37 AM   #12 (permalink)
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You could just get a regular receiver, run the cyclic servos to it, and run the tail and gov off the FBL unit.
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Old 11-04-2016, 08:54 AM   #13 (permalink)
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The goal is to not have to buy another receiver. Full range receivers that have sufficient power buses are expensive. And just more wires and mess and complications.
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Old 11-04-2016, 10:53 AM   #14 (permalink)
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From what Train Fixer said that sounds like it would definitely be one choice you have. The bottom line is just being able to get a direct connection from the stick movements to the swash.

Back when F3C regs still required a flybar some guys were experimenting with FBL units on flybarred helis and some were able to work as a bit of a hybrid where the FBL unit was actually working as well. But surely if the swash gain is at or near zero AND it gives you a direct feed of the stick inputs then you should be able to use it like an RX and still have the tail gyro, gov etc.
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Old 11-04-2016, 06:57 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Number View Post
Ok, so I just got a flybar head for a 700 to play around with and might get another 700 and use the flybar on it. The question is, can I take a FBL unit that I already have, put cyclic gain to zero, and use it with the flybar head? This would allow me to take advantage of the smart FBL governor and good tail and let me just use two satellites instead of going out and buying a $100 receiver. As well as making FBL conversion super easy if I decided to do it. Would that work with gain at zero? Talking MSH Brain or Vbar.
You don't have to turn off the cyclic gain, the idea that a flybar and an FBL unit will "fight" is a disproven myth. What actually happens is that they stack to create a super stable helicopter.
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Old 11-04-2016, 09:30 PM   #16 (permalink)
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yeah I never understood why they would "fight" each other but I had no way to test or prove one way or the other. I could think of no actual reason they would fight each other and result in a crash.
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Old 11-04-2016, 10:31 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I always wondered what would happen if you used 2 fbl units?

I think the issue with using a flybar would be the servos getting more of a work load ?
Plus how would you tune it ? on both questions??
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Old 11-04-2016, 11:12 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Servos get less of a workout with a flybar as a lot of cyclic control is done by the flybar. That's why when FBL started coming out people realized their 10Kg servos on a 700 weren't gonna cut it.
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Old 11-05-2016, 03:04 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Also Spirit has specific settings for flybar mechanics which allow you using the other features like Governor and Rescue.
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Old 11-05-2016, 07:03 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic Skull View Post
You don't have to turn off the cyclic gain, the idea that a flybar and an FBL unit will "fight" is a disproven myth. What actually happens is that they stack to create a super stable helicopter.
Wouldn't a "disproven myth" result in a fact? I guess you meant to say a "proven myth" or "disproven theory".
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