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Old 01-05-2017, 10:37 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Question Telemetry?

I am interested in trying out telemetry. What catagory do I look under for information on this?
I posted in the JR 2.4 Ghz radios section because I am flying with a 9303 transmitter, but have had no response.
I would use my IPhone or IPad for the receiver if the interface would work on current equipment. Should I maybe just but an old I device with the ancient 30 pin charge plug?
I have to learn everything about telemetry, so where to begin reading?
Thank you
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:42 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Lots of sources which other guys will suggest.

A good place to start is reading JETI promotional material and JETI Duplex forum on this site.
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:46 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Depends on what your trying to achieve. MAH consumed seems to be the big one.

Certain transmitter systems are easier to achieve this with then others.

At the end of the day to get full telemetry you are gathering it from mutiple sources, ESC, FBL System & Other Radio System Specific Sensors Sensors. ( Hahah that's a lot of S'S )

I tried to do it with my DX9, Fought it. Gave up.

In the end I went with Jeti, where it's easy & works completely. It's expensive, but for my hobby it is worth every penny.

Good Luck

Check out Jeti....of course!
Check out the Graupner line as well.
Check out the V Control

Good Luck!
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Old 01-06-2017, 02:36 AM   #4 (permalink)
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got DX9 and got most of telemetry I need , take a look at the jlog 3 that will work with JR tx
http://j-log.eu/wp-content/uploads/2...diatorS321.png
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Old 01-06-2017, 04:27 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Are there any simple solutions to just measure peak amps drawn ?

I don't have a tx that has a telemetry option and for now i could for just settle for a simple logging device that could measure max amps...
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Old 01-06-2017, 09:03 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bnito View Post
Are there any simple solutions to just measure peak amps drawn ?

I don't have a tx that has a telemetry option and for now i could for just settle for a simple logging device that could measure max amps...
Easiest would be to put an ESC that does logging into your model. Castle Edge ESCs are probably the best option for the price and most common that do that. The Talon ESCs from Castle do not log. There are other options as well if you do some research.
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Old 01-06-2017, 02:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Spektrum telemetry is super easy to setup. mAh sensor works flawless and IMO, mAh and related readings are the most useful telemetry information for heli pilots.

Carlos
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Old 01-06-2017, 04:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
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See, this is a problem with telemetry. Can someone explain to me why they believe mAh is useful as a parameter? You have two variables that you don’t control and cannot measure with that parameter- the pack’s actual capacity, and its state of charge at initiation of flight. If you don’t have both defined, then knowing how much energy you have pulled is a useless parameter unless you are focused on energy used for a specific maneuver (and not as a time-to-terminate-flight).

No one evaluates pack state of charge by mAh used. We all evaluate it based on a pack/cell voltage. Even if you get everything right with mAh (predefine the actual remaining capacity in the pack), your sensor cannot measure the 5-10% energy lost in the pack to self-heating.

Likewise, if you believe that dips below some value (i.e. 3v/cell) matter to your pack health, then mAh doesn’t help you there- you have huge voltage droop under high load, and yet- the mAh counter may still say you are fine as regards remaining power.

Point just being, a whole lot of this is perceived need- where people hear from others that ‘X’ is wonderful etc. If that didn’t work, marketing departments wouldn’t exist. OP- really, it is a much better idea to ask the question- what are your goals here? Are you looking to make pretty graphs, or do you want to use data to improve some flight characteristics (i.e. motor efficiency, FBL tuning, etc)? With that, you can look at various systems and see what capabilities exist. How many of you that love your telemetry can answer this simple question- ‘can your servo bus voltage sensor detect a 5ms voltage dip’? Have you ever put the sensor on a square wave generator to see what sort of data you get out of it in your logs? Many, many people have a false sense of security because they see averaged data that does not reflect in any useful way some important threats to the machine’s safety, or at least to its peak performance.
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Old 01-06-2017, 04:18 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
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See, this is a problem with telemetry. Can someone explain to me why they believe mAh is useful as a parameter? You have two variables that you don’t control and cannot measure with that parameter- the pack’s actual capacity, and its state of charge at initiation of flight. If you don’t have both defined, then knowing how much energy you have pulled is a useless parameter unless you are focused on energy used for a specific maneuver (and not as a time-to-terminate-flight).

No one evaluates pack state of charge by mAh used. We all evaluate it based on a pack/cell voltage. Even if you get everything right with mAh (predefine the actual remaining capacity in the pack), your sensor cannot measure the 5-10% energy lost in the pack to self-heating.

Likewise, if you believe that dips below some value (i.e. 3v/cell) matter to your pack health, then mAh doesn’t help you there- you have huge voltage droop under high load, and yet- the mAh counter may still say you are fine as regards remaining power.

Point just being, a whole lot of this is perceived need- where people hear from others that ‘X’ is wonderful etc. If that didn’t work, marketing departments wouldn’t exist. OP- really, it is a much better idea to ask the question- what are your goals here? Are you looking to make pretty graphs, or do you want to use data to improve some flight characteristics (i.e. motor efficiency, FBL tuning, etc)? With that, you can look at various systems and see what capabilities exist. How many of you that love your telemetry can answer this simple question- ‘can your servo bus voltage sensor detect a 5ms voltage dip’? Have you ever put the sensor on a square wave generator to see what sort of data you get out of it in your logs? Many, many people have a false sense of security because they see averaged data that does not reflect in any useful way some important threats to the machine’s safety, or at least to its peak performance.
This is all true. Sometimes I get the warning to land via mAh used and other times I get the Low Voltage alarm telling me its time to land or to go easier on the packs if I want to continue to fly.
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Old 01-06-2017, 04:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by extrapilot View Post
See, this is a problem with telemetry. Can someone explain to me why they believe mAh is useful as a parameter? You have two variables that you don’t control and cannot measure with that parameter- the pack’s actual capacity, and its state of charge at initiation of flight. If you don’t have both defined, then knowing how much energy you have pulled is a useless parameter unless you are focused on energy used for a specific maneuver (and not as a time-to-terminate-flight).

No one evaluates pack state of charge by mAh used. We all evaluate it based on a pack/cell voltage. Even if you get everything right with mAh (predefine the actual remaining capacity in the pack), your sensor cannot measure the 5-10% energy lost in the pack to self-heating.

Likewise, if you believe that dips below some value (i.e. 3v/cell) matter to your pack health, then mAh doesn’t help you there- you have huge voltage droop under high load, and yet- the mAh counter may still say you are fine as regards remaining power.

Point just being, a whole lot of this is perceived need- where people hear from others that ‘X’ is wonderful etc. If that didn’t work, marketing departments wouldn’t exist. OP- really, it is a much better idea to ask the question- what are your goals here? Are you looking to make pretty graphs, or do you want to use data to improve some flight characteristics (i.e. motor efficiency, FBL tuning, etc)? With that, you can look at various systems and see what capabilities exist. How many of you that love your telemetry can answer this simple question- ‘can your servo bus voltage sensor detect a 5ms voltage dip’? Have you ever put the sensor on a square wave generator to see what sort of data you get out of it in your logs? Many, many people have a false sense of security because they see averaged data that does not reflect in any useful way some important threats to the machine’s safety, or at least to its peak performance.
SO FUNNY!! I have brought this up before, I love my telemetry but I'm certainty more interested in voltage, yes it squawks at me when getting down to the bottom on hard pulls but that just lets me know I'm getting close to my threshold voltage limit.
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Old 01-06-2017, 04:25 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by extrapilot View Post
No one evaluates pack state of charge by mAh used. We all evaluate it based on a pack/cell voltage.
I have never used cell/pack voltage to determine state of charge. (Maybe I am doing it wrong?)

I take packs advertised capacity, multiply it by .75. That is my target max mAh usage. I fly several flights for short preset time limit; charge batteries and log mAh put back in and divide that by the length of flight to determine mAh used per minute of flight. Then dived my predetermined max mAh usage by the mAh use per minute to determine how many minutes I should safely able to fly. Set my timer for that and fly. Monitor mAh usage put back into pack after a full flight and compare to previous calculated numbers and adjust accordingly if needed.

I also dont use telemetry.
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Old 01-06-2017, 04:28 PM   #12 (permalink)
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mah is the best most accurate way to measure the power you've pulled from a battery.

Batteries sag differently depending on how new they are and their C rating.

A new high C rating battery won't sag much in the beginning. An old lower C rating battery will sag a lot and consistently read a lower voltage when it has more juice left in it.
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Old 01-06-2017, 04:37 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I'd love to see a voltage reading that's averaged over a few seconds to clear out the dips. That would probably be simpler and more reliable than mAh, but I don't believe any systems offer that.
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Old 01-06-2017, 04:43 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I adjust the threshold to provide the best end result. I.E., balance between false alarms and resting voltage. You have to fudge it.
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Old 01-06-2017, 04:44 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myxiplx View Post
I'd love to see a voltage reading that's averaged over a few seconds to clear out the dips. That would probably be simpler and more reliable than mAh, but I don't believe any systems offer that.
That is an excellent idea.
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Old 01-06-2017, 08:29 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Holy cow

Talk about replies. I'm eating this up. Great information.
I'm curious, since I fly a 9303 JR I don't have telemetry, what would be my best option for receiving remote telemetry? I can pick up an old IPhone for $20-$30 and use Spektrums interface. Do I just ad a TM module to my heli with the sensors and watch it work through the app?
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Old 01-06-2017, 08:32 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Then you should checkout this: http://www.eagletreesystems.com/inde...ory&path=63_70

these guys been doing it alone time, great products - stand alone systems
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Old 01-06-2017, 08:37 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Nothing against eagle tree but unless ur gonna use the osd or Fpv it's heavy. The external j log is possibility. But why not upgrade to a newer jr dmss system. I ve seen several posts on here selling XG series jr Rxs n telemetry is a couple sensors n it's either displayed or ur send tx back to jr America's n get the tell me installed n it will speak the telemetry to u pm me if you interested in a xg 14 I know sum one selling also has a few jr tags minis fBL controllers n a few Rxs aswell
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Old 01-06-2017, 08:43 PM   #19 (permalink)
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On second thought, you might want to think about bailing on your radio because, the advancements are so great it makes all the old stuff seem useless.
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Old 01-06-2017, 08:43 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEEPWORLD2002 View Post
Nothing against eagle tree but unless ur gonna use the osd or Fpv it's heavy. The external j log is possibility. But why not upgrade to a newer jr dmss system. I ve seen several posts on here selling XG series jr Rxs n telemetry is a couple sensors n it's either displayed or ur send tx back to jr America's n get the tell me installed n it will speak the telemetry to u pm me if you interested in a xg 14 I know sum one selling also has a few jr tags minis fBL controllers n a few Rxs aswell
agreed, was thinking this exact thing
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