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Mikado V-BAR Control Mikado V-Stabi/V-BAR Control Flybarless System Software and Hardware Support


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Old 02-26-2018, 11:36 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Poti 1 throttle advance for nitro

Long story short, I hot started 2 weekends ago due to forgetting to put my bank switch back to 1 (direct throttle) while starting in motor switch - run position.

The reason for starting in 'motor on' was because i needed to advance the throttle slightly to start a cold engine; and manually adjusting global idle is a hassle. It worked well for few gallons of my first nitro on vcontrol. Then, it bit me.

So, in the interest of saving my sanity, my thumb skin, and clutch liners, Rainer at Mikado suggested making a macrocells mix that will allow one of the poti knobs to be used like a trim tab that we (I) have been used to prior to vcontrol.

So, if you're interested, here's the steps to replicate--or you can just follow along in the video below as I fiddle with the settings to achieve the proper goal.

1. note your current global idle setting, and make a mark on the throttle barrel.
2. advance your global idle to the maximum "trim" you'd ever need to get your heli going--for example on a cold day, or maybe just a tired engine. note that VALUE AND make a mark on the throttle barrel
3. just for giggles, mark your throttle kill location on the throttle barrel as well just so you know where it is while adjusting all the points later.
4. Set your NEW global throttle to 1/2 the delta between old global idle and the max idle advance you noted. For example: if your current global idle is 12; and your max global idle advance is 36, the difference is 24. So, add 1/2 that value to the old global value: 12 + 12 = 24 new global idle.
5. On your vcontrol go to setup-macrocells-edit macrocells; scroll over to ESC10 and change it from 'none' to 'mixer'
6. Set the first value to FC ESC
7. Set the first mixer number to near 80 (or -80)--whichever value CLOSES your throttle as the value is increased.
8. Set 'poti 1' as the knob to control the mix
9. Set the step size value to about 5-6 (or -5 to -6--it will be pos or neg, just as the first value)

This should get you in the ball park for the pot knob controlling from your old idle value to the max idle value noted in step 2 above. Adjust your global idle to adjust the center point if it's min and max are not hitting their marks; adjust the step size if the knob's full throw is too small or large.

With this mix, there is now ZERO reason to ever have to start a nitro heli with the motor switch in the run position. So, if you leave the bank switch in 2 (like I always have done in the past because it's not an issue with electrics), there is no negative consequence.

If you want to skip my narrative for why I enabled the mix in the first place, skip to 4:06 for the how-to

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Old 02-27-2018, 06:53 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Canít you just run bank 1 as direct throttle control.


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Old 02-27-2018, 09:21 AM   #3 (permalink)
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You can. And, I did. Until my 2 years of electric habits caught up with me and I hot started. I explain exactly what happened in the video, and why you might want to use this mix.

No, it’s not absolutely necessary at all. But, it will help prevent hotstarts since with the knob you can start in the motor switch “off” position and still adjust throttle trim.
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Old 02-28-2018, 12:26 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks for taking the time and posting the video. It has rerouted my thinking on my setup.
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Old 03-19-2018, 10:12 AM   #5 (permalink)
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VERY NICE! This addresses my biggest complaint with VBC, the way fuel helis are almost an afterthought in regards to idle and starting. I really appreciate you taking the time to make this video.
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Old 03-19-2018, 10:59 AM   #6 (permalink)
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You're welcome. And, I agree. Fuel helis were absolutely an afterthought. But, since the introduction of Vcontrol they have made great strides in not just providing a band-aid solution, but actual fuel heli tools.

This was my first nitro on Vcontrol, and I found it quite simple to set up....very wizard-like, just like electric heli setup.

Macrocells always scared me--too easy to do something wrong and not know what to expect out of the other end of the 'mystery box'. I never would have guessed the settings used would have given these results. I never would have attempted the mix without Rainer's help. But, I'm on gallon 2 now using this and it is really a nice addition.
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Old 03-20-2018, 08:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Got to try it out today. Worked great. Thanks again.
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Old 03-25-2018, 10:22 AM   #8 (permalink)
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As a long time nitro user I appreciate your post.

I did as you did just the once and in all the years I have flown nitro it was only my second hot start. For some reason though it didn't scream full throttle which was a blessing and the engine cut for some reason I don't know.

Nothing got damaged and the model flew fine there after.
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Old 03-25-2018, 04:30 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks cudaboy, I have set mine up now and just need to try it out once the weather clears up....
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Old 03-26-2018, 11:27 AM   #10 (permalink)
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For what it's worth, here is another way to prevent hot starts but requires the use of a transmitter activated glow igniter like SwitchGlo Pro.

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=770900

I'm pretty sure you could run both Poti 1 throttle advance and glow cut macrocells all at the same time without issue.
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Old 03-26-2018, 11:51 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Just discovered one drawback with this. With it enabled, it kills crossover buddy boxing for me, and the ability to fly with my other radio and leave the Vcontrol at home. Not really all that surprising, but I didn't expect it.
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Old 03-26-2018, 12:02 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I vaguely remember your post on this. Unfortunately, I sold my switchglo when I sold my last nitro in 2011 or so and haven’t gotten another yet to test with.

That looks like another good solution to hotstarts, and for activating the switchglo. In practice I’ve found the poti knob solution to have an added benefit: I can fly electrics and nitros back to back without having to remember different switch positions for starting/initializing—which is what ultimately but me.

What I mean specifically is that when I fly electrics, I typically fly in bank 2. I don’t know why. That’s just how they’re all set up. Bank 3 may be a higher HS and bank 1 lower. But, bank 2 is where I fly 99% of my flights. When it’s time to land I just hit t/h and auto in. Nothing changes switchwise on the radio after that. I plug in another battery, it iniitializes, and I flip out of t/h in to bank 2. Rinse, lather, repeat.

What bit me with the hot start was the difference in nitro starting routine when the engine is cold. I had to put the bank switch to 1, flip the run switch to on, and fiddle with the throttle stick.

The poti advance mix now allows me to start a nitro heli exactly the same as an electric—with the only difference being I can dial in a little more throttle with the knob.

So, for me the ideal solution would be a combo of both mixes—one that allows the knob to work as described here, and another that only activates the glow when below 1/4 stick. But, I’m not sure that’s possible. Maybe someone with better MC skills than me could chime in.
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Old 03-26-2018, 12:04 PM   #13 (permalink)
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@eury you hopped in right when the discussion changed to the switchglo mix. Which are you saying interferes with buddybox?
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Old 03-26-2018, 12:24 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cudaboy_71 View Post
@eury you hopped in right when the discussion changed to the switchglo mix. Which are you saying interferes with buddybox?
Sorry. The original Macrocells mix you posted about. When I have it on, I can't fly the heli with my other radio. With it off, I can. Same with crossover buddy boxing since it uses the same mechanism.
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Old 03-26-2018, 12:28 PM   #15 (permalink)
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interesting. I only have the one radio, so have never tried.

Do you know if all the mix values are zeroed when you disable the mix? (do you have to set it all up again when you re-enable)
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Old 03-26-2018, 07:02 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cudaboy_71 View Post
interesting. I only have the one radio, so have never tried.

Do you know if all the mix values are zeroed when you disable the mix? (do you have to set it all up again when you re-enable)
Yes, you have to set it up all over again if you disable the mix. I took a picture with my phone, that did the trick for getting it set back up.

EDIT:

After playing with it some more, the reason it wasn't working is all of the channel values in the input screen were 0. Strange, but something about how this model is setup cleared those out vs my other models that don't have the mix. I went in and assigned the channels and all is well, even with the mix enabled. Cross over buddy boxing works even with the mix.
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Old 03-26-2018, 08:00 PM   #17 (permalink)
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So, are you saying both radios need to have the mix set up? I’m only confused because I’ve never set up a VC for buddybox.
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Old 03-26-2018, 08:41 PM   #18 (permalink)
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No, the second radio doesn't need anything special. What I'm saying is creating that mix wiped out the channel assignments for the crossover buddy box function in the Neo. Don't know why, but I just tried it on a second Neo and it did the same thing. So it all still works, but I had to go in and manually assign the channels to the trainer radio in the "External Input" menu under Macrocells in the VControl. When I haven't setup this mix, those are already assigned and working.
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Old 03-26-2018, 08:43 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Sounds like a reproducible bug that could be fixed in an update. Report it maybe?
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Old 03-27-2018, 01:38 AM   #20 (permalink)
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My problem is that now Poti 1 will overdrive the servo past full throttle even in gov mode and will overdrive in the throttle cut direction as well.

In other words if I hold throttle cut and turn Poti 1 down all the way it tries to drive the sevo beyond throttle closed. Maybe not that big a deal since I don't hold throttle cut for long. But, at full throttle in IU 1 or 2, if I rotate the Poti1 all the way up it pushes the servo beyond the desired position.

Again, maybe not too big a deal since it doesn't overdrive the servo to the point of stalling since they are mounted on rubber grommets but I was hoping Poti 1 would not have a effect in gov modes.

I'll play with it some more, but, I like the idea of being able to give it a little throttle on the first start of the day.
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