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Old 04-27-2017, 07:02 AM   #21 (permalink)
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For those interested in the cargo hook idea.
I haven't had any time to fly and play with the hook more than dropping the sky divers but I have thought about it a lot.

At this time I only have the one cargo hook slot.
The servo has plenty of stroke so having a dual cargo hook release would certainly be doable.
I have mine controlled by a three position switch on the TX which means I have an unused switch position.

The only thing I would need to do to set up the second hook would be to add another aluminum plate to the stack up to create another cargo hook slot for the second load.

So what would this be useful for...you tell me, that's part of the fun.
With two cargo hook slots you could drop two loads, one at a time at different intervals or you could use one hook to activate or control some sort of action.
An example would be to tow a flag for the opening of a heli event and with the second hook release, control the opening of doors in a box to drop confetti while in flight over the flag. That would look pretty cool. You get the idea, the second hook opens up many possibilities.
Back to building.
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Old 05-01-2017, 07:55 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Towing the Flag

Trying to work in time and good weather for filming this project of mine with the mighty Velos 880 as the star.
I have never "long lined" anything from a model helicopter before so I figured it would be smart to start out with something light.
Built up a 12 foot braided steel cable long line (fishing leader material) and attached it to my cargo hook and flag which had a lead weight at the bottom and a round piece of carbon fiber tube in the seam of the flag to give it a backbone which keeps the leading edge straight in flight.

Picking up of the flag was no issue. The only thing I found I had to be careful of was acceleration into forward flight. Not too fast, as the flag has a lot of drag and can swing back far enough to get the long line in the tail rotor.

Other than that it was a piece of cake. Looking forward to lifting other things of greater weight and I also have the ability to control two loads now as I added a second controllable hook.

Working on a worthy video, but for now, here is a still shot of the long line and flag in flight.
Its fun!

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Old 05-01-2017, 03:35 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Default The Double Cargo Hook

Just a quick photo of the installed double cargo hook.
Servo actuated and controlled by a three position switch on the TX.
Just have to remember what I want to drop first and make sure its in the first or forward slot.
Works great.
I still think its crazy the servo has enough pulling power to drop a 50 pound load without any hesitation with a throw of the TX switch.

The pin is shown fully engaged into both cargo slots.
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Old 05-08-2017, 03:53 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Should have tried that Heli-X cargo training
But I am happy to see that you did not wrap ur line around the boom
Now with 2 line and 2 loads I tend to think that both loads and lines will just spin and tangle up man

As you know a real machines belly hook can spin with a load
Now all gonna depend on ur speed and arc of line
We used to get on the Pee Alots that slung for us and tell them

"Come On Man Get A Little Whip In Dat Wire "

If you do try 2 lines and loads , try some bricks , If ya got to punch them off won't really be losing nothing of value , be sure the dog is out of the way eh !

Also are u sure 1 line won't hang up a bit when released ?

I am sure that big boy could take some big masonary blocks , but if I was you I would start out light weight little bricks

Bit you gonna have sum Spinnage for sure man

How about a Bambi Bucket with a controllable door to open for ur other switch
Make it out of an old hot water bag , member mom used to put them under the covers to warm up the bed on those frosty nights ?

U know those big red water bags, they were good and thick and could take some bouncing on the end of the line and I think have a hole molded in

Good luck dude I am keeping an eye on ur thread here

Clark
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Old 05-08-2017, 07:59 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Thanks Clark!
You are absolutely correct on trying to sling two long lines simultaneously.
They will tangle and with the release of one load, the lines will snag, and I would have one really long line still connected to both loads.

To use both hooks, one would be used to drop or control (something) directly from the belly position without a long line and the other could do something similar or be connected to a long line load.

Two long lines are not an option, they would tangle for sure.
I had thought of that also but I am glad you are thinking this through and pointed out that hazard.
I was wondering if anyone would speak up and say "I wouldn't if I were you". You did so thanks for that!

I am still working full scale issues so the Velos long line experiment is slow to evolve but I will get there.

I was also wondering if the Velos long line would give you a good shock if grabbed before it touched the ground while in flight, like full scale will do.
Never done that myself but seen it done...pretty funny...but not for the guy getting the shock.
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Old 05-20-2017, 02:11 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Hook for Easier Loading

OK...so connecting the long line or any load to the servo controlled cargo hook pin was a pain...had to do something easier.

Found a good quality spring hook capable of much more weight than I will attempt to carry.
Much simpler now to "attach the load".

Now that I have some time I will be doing a series of lifts, starting with one gallon of water and work my way up to 3 or 4 gallons.
Four gallons of water at approximately 33.2 pounds and with the Velos at 21 pounds puts the AUW at 54.2 pounds.
It will be interesting to see how it handles the weight.
I'll download the CC logs after each flight to see the relationship of weight vs. amp draw and ESC temp. Don't want to overdo anything, that's not my goal.
This will at least prove out what would be an acceptable max weight to work with for future projects.
Working on the video segments, sorry it's taking me so long, if I didn't have to work for a living.

Here is a couple still shots of the easier to load cargo hook. The retractable pin can still drop everything if needed.

The front view.


The back view.
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Old 05-22-2017, 06:55 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Default First lesson learned.

Had the chance to put up a long line flight.
I decided on using a lighter weight for practice on the recommendation from some of you. I decided on a 12 foot long line and a half gallon of water for practice, just to get the "swing" of it.

Picking the load up initially was simple...then things get progressively more difficult.
My observations from that flight:
The big Velos 880 is very stabile with the long line, the same can't be said for the load itself.
My jug of water had a mind of its own. My objective with this first flight was to simply hover with the load stationary and have good control over it.
None of that happened.
The swing of the load started out very small at first and progressively became larger and larger.
I tried to counter the load swing with aircraft movement which did help but I could never cancel out the swing completely.

I decided that I was probably causing the swing of the load so I stopped making adjustments with the sticks and just let the Velos hang there in a stabile hover.
The loads swing started small but increased to about 45 to 50 degrees from vertical and the Velos just hung there with very little visual motion.

It was like the Skookum which I have controlling the Velos was making very small corrections in response to the load swing and these corrections were making the swing greater.
Even with 100 degrees of swing of the load the Velos remained stabile and level, it was crazy looking.

The swing of the water jug became great enough I decided to release it for fear of the cable getting into the tail rotor.
I truly don't know how you guys attempted this on your models without the capability of release when things get crazy.

I could have lowered the collective and let the load hit the ground but with that you get sudden slack in the long line and the possibility of heli entanglement which would end the day on a bad note.
Release is the way to go and safest...except for the water jug, it exploded on impact...sorry I didn't have the camera to record it...next time.

So my take away with this fist attempt was securing any heavy load directly to the belly of your heli and then taking flight is easy...hooking up that same load to a long line and controlling the load in flight is difficult.

I need a lot of practice in flight and experimentation with the length of the long line to get the best setup.
...and so it continues. I'm going to need many, many water jugs.
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Old 05-22-2017, 09:14 AM   #28 (permalink)
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fits pretty much my experience Good that you can release the load
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Old 05-22-2017, 11:00 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I'm Surprised that you of all people would be surprised by this
Da Skookum is a factor
4 Sure

Sitting @ a hover will definitely induce factors

Ur young enuff to know the song

Move It Move It

Heli-X Cargo training Man , It will teach muscle memory as any SIM will , as I am sure ur OLD enuff to know this is how we all started

Bra it ur machine and it is a very tuned and expensive bit of kit and it all about the feel for U 4 Sure

To me you have tooken the ability to punch it away with the new belly hook design and I would Re-think that design/Ability............ Again

12 Foot = 3 meter or so eh ?

Per scale would you say that a sporty ?
As discussed before , perhaps u got too much weight on

Ur the guy on the sticks if it not feeling right and but yet U know it can handle it

Maybe IT is a loose stick height tension spring thingy , Perhaps it the Sk
???

MOVE IT MOVE IT

Sure as Shite that Sk gonna work , so will Ur stick height tension spring thingy

Put a little whip in that wire with a less of a load I am sure that Big boy will handle it and The Sk too

I member hovering with training gear , man when I took it off , Forward Flight was possible

Good Luck Dude , Like Capt. Kirk U are going with the Velos Where no man has gone B4

Clark
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Old 05-22-2017, 12:06 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by im4711 View Post
fits pretty much my experience Good that you can release the load
Yup...going to take some practice to be good at it like everything else with an rc helicopter.

I like my pickle switch, it'll save me some money and underwear.
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Old 05-22-2017, 12:12 PM   #31 (permalink)
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What I learned from this thread:

Every helicopter should have a cargo hook.
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Old 05-22-2017, 12:35 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falung_69 View Post
I'm Surprised that you of all people would be surprised by this
Da Skookum is a factor
4 Sure

Sitting @ a hover will definitely induce factors

Ur young enuff to know the song

Move It Move It

Heli-X Cargo training Man , It will teach muscle memory as any SIM will , as I am sure ur OLD enuff to know this is how we all started

Bra it ur machine and it is a very tuned and expensive bit of kit and it all about the feel for U 4 Sure

To me you have tooken the ability to punch it away with the new belly hook design and I would Re-think that design/Ability............ Again

12 Foot = 3 meter or so eh ?

Per scale would you say that a sporty ?
As discussed before , perhaps u got too much weight on

Ur the guy on the sticks if it not feeling right and but yet U know it can handle it

Maybe IT is a loose stick height tension spring thingy , Perhaps it the Sk
???

MOVE IT MOVE IT

Sure as Shite that Sk gonna work , so will Ur stick height tension spring thingy

Put a little whip in that wire with a less of a load I am sure that Big boy will handle it and The Sk too

I member hovering with training gear , man when I took it off , Forward Flight was possible

Good Luck Dude , Like Capt. Kirk U are going with the Velos Where no man has gone B4

Clark

Thanks Clark!
I knew sitting in a hover with a load would need attention on the sticks but I was really surprised on how it could go from being a little oscillation to an out right OMG situation so quickly.

As far as the Skookum having an influence on the oscillation I learned long ago as a helicopter hoist operator that a little counter move by hand on the cable from the operators position could correct a big swing of the load.
I guess the opposite is true also as the little counter measures of the Skookum to keep the heli level could increase the loads swing dramatically in a short time.

Dragging the flag around was easier than hovering with the bottle of water which I would expect as well.
Forward flight with the bottle water weight should be easier as well with the added wind resistance to help control the load.

Tell me what your thinking with the belly hook re-design.
It works really good for me as is...with a flick of my finger...all my troubles just drop away.

Long line was about 3 meters. Shorter should be a little easier do you think?
Was about 4.5 pounds of water, super easy for the Velos to lift but don't think lighter weight would be any easier to control and I want to go up to around 33 pounds eventually just to know a maximum weight.

My equipment is good, I believe I just need the experience to tame the beast.
I'll experiment with the line length and load. With experience I should be able to get a good flight out of the long line with about anything attached.
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Old 05-22-2017, 12:40 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogdipstick View Post
What I learned from this thread:

Every helicopter should have a cargo hook.
Just another facet to an interesting machine. One more area of having a little fun.
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Old 05-22-2017, 07:07 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I'll download the CC logs after each flight to see the relationship of weight vs. amp draw and ESC temp. Don't want to overdo anything, that's not my goal.
Ever since you started this thread, I wonder the same. Chances are that you may end up pulling too many amps with more load.

Perhaps you may want to consider using a telemetry amps sensor so you be warned in real time.

Carlos
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Old 05-23-2017, 07:41 AM   #35 (permalink)
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I am sorry did not notice that you still can punch the line off
I am catching you now man
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Old 05-23-2017, 12:44 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CZorzella View Post
Ever since you started this thread, I wonder the same. Chances are that you may end up pulling too many amps with more load.

Perhaps you may want to consider using a telemetry amps sensor so you be warned in real time.

Carlos
Perfect idea...just not set up with any telemetry yet.
I'll just be cautious and limit flight time until I know what the ESC temps and amp draw is for a given load. I am betting ESC temps will be my limit before amp draw or rotor RPM bogging.
Thanks Carlos!
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Old 05-23-2017, 12:51 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I am sorry did not notice that you still can punch the line off
I am catching you now man
No worries Clark!
I was excited thinking you had other ideas.

I must have a way out if things get uncontrollable or snagged...I can just pickle it.
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Old 05-27-2017, 07:50 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Progress and learning the long line.

OK...so I learned something very important today when trying to fly a load by long line with the Velos 880.
Length matters...short line is very bad...a long line is very good....guess that's why they call it a "long line".

I had originally started the experiment with a 3.5 meter line or about 12 feet.
It was completely uncontrollable, no matter how many times I tried and no matter how slow I made the controls react, it always ended with a very big pendulum swing of the load, ending with its release, and subsequent destruction on the ground.
I used light weight and heavier weight and the result was always the same, the big swing ending in early load release.

So in desperation I tried a 10 meter or 33 foot long line.
My test weight was a gallon jug of water weighing in at 8.3 pounds.
On lifting the load from the ground I was excited to see it just hang there under the Velos with no tendency to swing.
I could fly it around and stop without any scary, uncontrollable pendulum swing.

Videos to come. I had my wife out with the camera today but I set her up with a long lens that didn't allow her to get both Velos 880 and the long line with load in the same frame...my bad...I was too much into thinking why I was having such a hard time than thinking about the camera.

Now that I have control I'll start increasing the weight to see where it takes me.
The 8.3 pounds of water was a feather to the big Velos, it still had great climb performance.
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Old 05-28-2017, 02:32 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Default My first practicle application using the long line?

Now that I have seen first hand the stability and controllability of a load on the long line, what now?
Will I just demonstrate I can pick up several jugs of water with the Velos? That's fun but I wanted to actually use the Velos in a real world application using its new talent.

Years ago there was a storm that deposited a tree branch high on the roof of my house, in a valley of the roof, where it has remained lodged to this day.
The branch is laying on the roof at the front of the house so every time you drive up, you see that dam branch laying up there, my wife hates it.

I would have thought that rain water would have washed it down but its high enough on the roof that the accumulated rain in the roof valley isn't strong enough to do the job. I could get out the ladder and climb up there and do it but the physical height and location make it very dangerous plus walking on roof shingles will damage them.

My plan, now that I know I can long line with some accuracy, is to lift a big push broom head (without the handle) up into position above the tree branch, lower the broom into the valley of the roof, and with a second string attached to one end of the broom head controlled by my wife on the ground, have her pull the broom head down the valley and with that, sweep that tree branch off the roof once and for all.
I'll keep the Velos stationed high above in a hover, still attached to the broom head.
With the Velos redundancy I have no issue with hovering above my house for any length of time.

If successful, my wife will have a new respect for the Velos and what it can do, she has hated seeing that branch on the roof for years.

Sounds like fun to me...and yes another video in the works.
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Old 05-29-2017, 12:47 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Long Line Length Comparison

Just a short video to show the dramatic difference in controlling a sling load on a 3.5 meter long line and a 10 meter long line.

As you can easily see, the longer line is the way to go for control of the load, the short line always ended with an early release due to an uncontrollable pendulum swing. Fun to watch, but not in trying to control it.

The 10 meter long line was easy. I guess the guys who posted their weight lifting videos by long line on You Tube never tried it with a longer line, they got into some large oscillations of the load similar to my first attempt that you will see in the following video.

More to come this is just the beginning...had to figure it out first.
Velos 880 Long Line Comparison (2 min 59 sec)
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