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Old 04-09-2017, 08:12 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default SOLVED: Does the main belt stretch easily?

I recently bought a used Warp and just flew it for the first time. After a close reinspection due to a sudden, unexplained power loss and crash, I found that the main belt is very loose. the motor/pulley assembly is mounted as far away from the mainshaft as possible, yet the belt is still extremely loose. I can press the belt in about 5 mm with barely any pressure.
Is it normal for the belt to stretch this much? Since I bought it used, I've no idea if a new belt will be any different.
Thanks
Chris
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Last edited by CFerry; 04-14-2017 at 04:49 PM.. Reason: Problem Solved
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Old 04-09-2017, 10:43 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I've never had stretch issues with belts.

Are you running stock pinion and gears?
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Old 04-10-2017, 06:20 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GravityJunkie View Post
I've never had stretch issues with belts.

Are you running stock pinion and gears?
Yes, it's a stock pinion.
I may have found my issue: the part number on my belt is Bando STS 60 S2M 296, which is a 296 mm long belt. The stock belt, from looking at the parts number (98-292) seems to be a 292 mm long belt. I bought this used, so maybe he source his own belt?
Can anyone with a stock belt confirm what it is identified with?
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Old 04-10-2017, 10:36 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Mine says STS296-S2M, both V1 & V2 kits.
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Old 04-10-2017, 12:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamCxZ View Post
Mine says STS296-S2M, both V1 & V2 kits.
Thank you for checking. That leaves me stumped as to why my belt is so loose. Maybe I'll just by one a little shorter and try that.
Thanks
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Old 04-10-2017, 12:40 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Just checked mine again, the belt is pretty loose.

I run low HS ~1800rpm so not much stress I guess...

I've noticed at one time that the one-way wouldn't engage properly,
maybe check that ?

If the belt slipped in flight surely it would shred, not to mention make quite a bit of noise ?
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Old 04-10-2017, 12:56 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamCxZ View Post
Just checked mine again, the belt is pretty loose.

I run low HS ~1800rpm so not much stress I guess...

I've noticed at one time that the one-way wouldn't engage properly,
maybe check that ?

If the belt slipped in flight surely it would shred, not to mention make quite a bit of noise ?
I didn't hear anything, but the helicopter was so far away that I couldn't hear the blades spool down either when it lost power.
Maybe these belts are just meant to be loose??? There doesn't seem to be much guidance on what tension to run. I can't make it slip by hand (turning the motor and holding the head), but it may react differently at speed (centrifugal force away from the pinion). Maybe I'll spool it up briefly with full negative pitch on the ground and see if it slips.
I'll check the OWB first.
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Old 04-10-2017, 01:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Please be careful with max neg pitch on the ground, the landing gear isn't the most robust...

...and depending on your FBL controller you could crash without even taking off
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Old 04-10-2017, 02:29 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamCxZ View Post
Please be careful with max neg pitch on the ground, the landing gear isn't the most robust...

...and depending on your FBL controller you could crash without even taking off
Thanks! I'll be careful. Maybe that will be a last resort.
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Belts should not slip when testing with your hand. The manual states how tight/loose the belts should be.

I run with a couple mm of deflection on the drive belt. A little more on the tail.
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:23 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GravityJunkie View Post
The manual states how tight/loose the belts should be.
My manual states:
"The perfect belt tension is very hard to explain, but better adjust it too high than too low."

Not very informative is it

But it is a bit strange that OP is not able to tension the belt fully, a picture of the assembly perhaps ?
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Old 04-10-2017, 06:55 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamCxZ View Post
My manual states:
"The perfect belt tension is very hard to explain, but better adjust it too high than too low."

Not very informative is it

But it is a bit strange that OP is not able to tension the belt fully, a picture of the assembly perhaps ?
I'm pretty sure I can judge what a good belt tension would be, but the assembly won't allow any tension really (5 mm deflection with almost no pressure).
Sorry if pictures are hard to see, it's my first attempt.
I cant honestly see how to get any tension on that belt without elongating the slots in the side frames so the motor can slide further back. That would be a real challenge. I'm looking at buying a slightly shorter belt.
Does anyone fly with that much slack?
Thanks
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Old 04-10-2017, 11:17 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Wow, I guess it's been awhile since I looked at the Warp manual. What a stupid instruction that is.

With my stock belt/pinion, I'm almost to the end of the slot. That gives me about 2-3mm of deflection. But, if I wanted to, I could pull it completely tight. I've logged over 1500 flights on one belt with no stretch issues.

Is there one slot that is holding it up from sliding or are all at the max? Have you pulled the belt to see if it was stretch/breaking?

Have you went through the used heli already? If not, this might be a good time. What's with the chunk of metal between the pulleys? Stock is a piece of CF, not what appears to be chunk of homemade aluminum.

You shouldn't need to purchase a shorter belt (as long as its put together correctly and using the stock/supported pinions).
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Old 04-10-2017, 11:39 PM   #14 (permalink)
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FWIW the belt on mine easily deflects more than 5mm, only stopping due to my fat finger
It has always flown just great like that, so I wouldn't suspect that main belt tension is your problem. Unless the belt snapped or stripped I don't think it could cause a sudden headspeed loss in any case.
I would be looking for a radio or ESC problem.
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Old 04-11-2017, 06:28 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GravityJunkie View Post
Wow, I guess it's been awhile since I looked at the Warp manual. What a stupid instruction that is.

With my stock belt/pinion, I'm almost to the end of the slot. That gives me about 2-3mm of deflection. But, if I wanted to, I could pull it completely tight. I've logged over 1500 flights on one belt with no stretch issues.

Is there one slot that is holding it up from sliding or are all at the max? Have you pulled the belt to see if it was stretch/breaking?

Have you went through the used heli already? If not, this might be a good time. What's with the chunk of metal between the pulleys? Stock is a piece of CF, not what appears to be chunk of homemade aluminum.

You shouldn't need to purchase a shorter belt (as long as its put together correctly and using the stock/supported pinions).
Thank you all for taking the time to help me out. From the two good flights I did get on the Warp, I was super impressed. I just want to get this back in the air!

When I bought the Warp, I disassembled the entire pulley guide assembly a most of the helicopter as well. I was very careful to follow the manual to reassemble exactly as it is supposed to be. The previous owner actually had the pulley guide assembly reversed so that the motor shaft didn't even ride inside the support bearing, and the V1 'special washers' were cracked from overtightenning (I feel like he was maybe desperately trying to get a tighter belt or something). I replaced those with a homemade aluminum 'special/special washers' and reassemble properly.
The screws are definately all the way to the end.

I measured the actual belt length (outside circumference, as they are spec'd by Bando) and I got almost 299 mm.
That might be my problem, so I should order a new stock belt.
Although you seem to have no issues with a few mm deflection, so this may be a non issue! Belts are cheap though.
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Old 04-11-2017, 06:33 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsoebirk View Post
FWIW the belt on mine easily deflects more than 5mm, only stopping due to my fat finger
It has always flown just great like that, so I wouldn't suspect that main belt tension is your problem. Unless the belt snapped or stripped I don't think it could cause a sudden headspeed loss in any case.
I would be looking for a radio or ESC problem.
Wow, that's interesting. I'll compare once I can get a new belt, although I may try some flights this weekend since you have about the same deflection as I do. I'm just waiting for new servo horns from MKS.
My castle esc log from that flight didn't seem to record properly (zero rpm), so that didn't help. I've cleared the log and reset data logging frequency to 10 hz in case it happens again.


I appreciate your time.
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:15 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CFerry View Post
I'm pretty sure I can judge what a good belt tension would be, but the assembly won't allow any tension really (5 mm deflection with almost no pressure).
Sorry if pictures are hard to see, it's my first attempt.
I cant honestly see how to get any tension on that belt without elongating the slots in the side frames so the motor can slide further back. That would be a real challenge. I'm looking at buying a slightly shorter belt.
Does anyone fly with that much slack?
Thanks
Few things to check.

-Your motor block/tensioning block appear to be tilted slightly, so you may actually have more tension available.

-Make sure your motor is centered on the motor block. There is an alignment tool that came with the kit which slips over the motor shaft.

-Belt tension doesn't need to be goosed down. Most importantly, you shouldn't be able to make the belt skip when holding the main pulley and rotating the belt. I have not actually measured, but I believe my belt also deflected around 5mm, back when my warp was stock.
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Old 04-11-2017, 01:13 PM   #18 (permalink)
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BaconRaygun,

-I'll double check the motor block/tensionning block again.
-I did use that special tool to get the motor centered. I was super carefull here the first time (I'm kinda anal that way).
I, too, can't get the belt to slip by hand. I was just worried that it may slip once the belt is running around the pinion at high speed.
But you are yet another Warp owner that says their belt is extremely loose and have zero issues.
Seems strange, but maybe that's just the norm.
I'm going to fly much closer to myself in the future so that I can at least hear things better (I was way too far away to hear anything when it crashed). Also, if the belt does slip, I should definately see an increase in motor rpm in the esc log. If the problem was a loss of power, that would not be the case.

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Old 04-11-2017, 02:14 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Precisely. If it were to slip, you should also see some telltale signs on the belt itself.

Do you have the logs to post? I'm curious what they say.

As for the motor alignment, can never hurt to ask. I know some have overlooked this step in the past, so I figured I would throw it out there.

For the motor block/tensioner, just make sure the motor block is square to the frame. Tolerances in the frame holes do allow for a bit of play (if they didn't, it would be tough to slide that whole assembly, and the process would probably damage the screws and/or frames, and get loose eventually anyway). Tighten the motor block first, and then, with a finger, just make sure the tensioner block is aligned before tightening. It can be a bit tricky and this is an area many people seem to have an issue with on this heli.

One way to fudge it is to press on the belt once you have the block partly tightened (this may cause the whole thing to tilt slightly). The tip here is, keep a finger on the belt while you slide the block back to set belt tension, and note where the block is at ideal tension. You can even mark the frames with a sharpie or something to have a reference point. Then, make sure its square... and then tighten.
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Old 04-11-2017, 02:19 PM   #20 (permalink)
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One other trick (actually, a mod) is to change the way the extra bearing supports the motor shaft. You can pull the bearing from the tensioner block completely and forget about it. This will allow for independent tension adjustment.

You can buy a flanged bearing and insert it right into the motor block to support the shaft. Less support than the stock method, but still better than nothing. As a bonus, you will never have to use the motor-alignment tool again.

Forgot to mention, this mod removes the motor C-clip, uses an extra spring washer, and uses the actual pinion pulley to hold the motor together. I know, sounds odd, but it works well.
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