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Old 04-10-2017, 02:01 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Close Call: Luck or Skill?

So the following video is part of a clip that popped up in my facebook feed about an hour ago. I'd like to hear your opinions on whether nobody getting hurt here was luck] or skill, as that's been debated heavily in the comments under the video and I'd like to gather more opinions on this.

I chose to censor the pilot and will not give any names for obvious reasons.

[ame="https://youtu.be/GdkicD63tDg"]Luck or Skill? - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="https://youtu.be/0JIdCSTfTGM"]Luck or Skill? [Full Flight] - YouTube[/ame]

Credit for the video of course goes to the original creator. I just downloaded, shortened, pixelated and reuploaded.
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Old 04-10-2017, 02:04 PM   #2 (permalink)
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.

Luck IMO, and those hurricanes before? phew.

I've seen him fly and I'll keep my distance and hope he doesn't have a mechanical at the wrong time.


opps I see this isn't the entire video. doesn't look so bad in isolation.

.
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Old 04-10-2017, 02:16 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I don't do Facebook so thanks for posting

This is very similar to the incident at IRCHA. Flying low, tail hitting the ground and the heli spiraling out of control. To me that he didn't get hit was plain luck.

I will refer to comments way back when RCHN existed and Nick said that the pilot is risking himself by deciding to fly low and close. A failure can always happen, either that or a dumb thumb like this.

I am WAY before even attempting to fly like that, if ever. But I want to learn smack eventually but I would definitely not fly as close. But as Nick said everyone chooses how to fly and the idea is to keep other people safe. Flying a little bit towards the field to have the heli more area to cross if something goes wrong, for example.

Now if that guy had been with a spotter that would have been bad, or if the guy to shot the video had been closer.

After being hit by a heli once I understand how dangerous these things can be if not careful. Don't wish that to no one but probably some people don't think something will go wrong once they have gained enough skill.
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Old 04-10-2017, 02:17 PM   #4 (permalink)
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At that altitude I don't think there's anything the pilot could have done to save the machine. There is a video of Alan Szabo (i think) doing one of the crazy auto saves i've ever seen after touching tails to ground while inverted......happened in about a second.

I think you're only hope in such a situation is that the disk is flat so that you can punch out and have a chance at saving it - that is where skill comes in more I think. The fact that he wasn't hurt is pure luck in my opinion, especially given how close he was to himself. Only so much you can do at that distance.

I was flying my 700N this weekend and having so much fun smacking it. About half way through the flight I did a fast inverted tail slide and stopped it into an inverted hover right in front of me. When I punched out, the tail went completely crazy. The front tail drive gears had stripped. I immediately gave negative collective and punched out to about 200ft in the air before hitting TH and piroflipping it upright and managed to save it. That was my first "oh shit" emergency landing. I consider myself a good pilot, but I didn't all expect to be able to save that. If it had occurred during a fast funnel or hurricane it would have been a rekit without a doubt.


Having been in that situation, as many others have been, you know how shitty of a situation losing all tail control is. The thing is piro'ing so fast you barely have time to realize what's going on. One moment you're king of the world having a great flight and the next you're in the dirt. It sucks.

I like to push my limits as well and get pretty close to the ground. I just don't see how anyone's reaction time and skill would be enough to save it at that altitude. You'd have to get a little lucky and punch the thing out i'd think.
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Old 04-10-2017, 02:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I would say it was luck. The simple fact that the pilot moved out to the way himself, tells me he was not really in control.

Too close for my comfort... I have had more than one servo arm break in flight. I don't want to be that close to a 700 if that happens. Not to mention a myriad of other potential mechanical failures.
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Old 04-10-2017, 02:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I don't want to debate about the whole flying too close thing, but I will give the pilot full credit for hitting throttle hold quickly and not trying to save it. I have seen way too many pilots trying to save their heli well past the safe point.
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Old 04-10-2017, 02:40 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Yeah, you guys pretty much confirmed what I was thinking. Added full flight to OP, also censored.
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:00 PM   #8 (permalink)
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That wasn't to bad seems he had some control over it and hit throttle hold

But it was somewhat of a close call
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:10 PM   #9 (permalink)
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While the pilot definitely has skill, i would say very lucky. Anytime you have to run away from your model, you are no longer in control, period! Instead of telling the model what to do, it is telling you what to do RUN! Whos really in control...
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:18 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I would say it is a bit of both; luck and skill.

Luck because he is very fortunate it didn't shoot at him quicker and/or had a piece hit him. A tailblade could easily embed into your skull as is evident by observing various carnage that has been posted over the years. I don't need to mention what would happen if it hit him full force.

Skill because he followed protocol. He knew it was a loss and hit throttle hold instead of fruitlessly trying to save it.

I really don't see much wrong with this video. Sure, he was a little close, but I see people doing FAR worse all the time. I see guys doing inverted, full speed hurricanes with the heli passing within 20 ft... and I see this at big events, on crowded flightlines, being done by "pro" pilots. Even at night.
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I agree with a little of both, he hit th and dumped collective to stop the heli, a few degrees to the right and it probably would have been in the pilots shins. Id rather plow the heli in to the dirt to keep it from going past the flight line than risk trying to save it any day.
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:55 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Everyone's reactions are different for sure.. I have lost tail control of my helis now 6 times in my life of being a pilot. All 6 happened in the last year as my skills have become more advanced. I have saved my helis 4 out of the 6 times.. I hit thold almost instantly (my index finger rests on it) and the heli only made maybe 1 revolution before thold was hit in all cases.

The 2 times I crashed I was only inches above the ground in more vertical tail down orientations and there was really no way to recover well..

One of the 6 crashes I did hit the ground lost half of my tail blades inverted, hit thold and got out of it landing on the skids. It happened so fast it was pure mind memory that saved my heli.

All cases heli was at least 30ft away from me when loss of control happened so I was never in that "holy shit this thing might hurt me" realm... which I think might change how one reacts as well.

His flying style was very aggressive and overall looked like an excellent pilot. That type of flying is not uncommon among most of the professional crowd.

I'd say a bit of luck on the timing of where it hit and skill on how he handled it.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:11 PM   #13 (permalink)
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He hit the tail and immediately dumped it. I've done the exact same thing. No real skill required.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:12 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Luck.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:19 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MariaFan View Post
Luck.
I'd tend to say "skill" since he deliberately dumped it. It just didn't take much at all. To me, luck would have been if he didn't know what to do and/or froze on the controls and the heli crashed on its own like it did.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:29 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Skilled pilot - yes - not yet clean but at least has the skills to get there.

Lucky in two ways:
- first the last pass of the hurricane you can see that he went quite a bit to the left and crossed the flight line. Lucky no one standing there since I heard no mentioning from a spotter about having a clear left side. getting across the flight line sucks and reminds me where I had to take a dive to the ground to avoid getting my head chopped off. So why do those kids do not stay away from the flight line? Just lucky no one walking up on the left.
- second time lucky buy pushing hard low on the deck. Its was not exactly clean but he had balls to push it to the limits. Nevertheless - not skilled enough to catch it before the tail hit the ground. So simple luck helped that the heli lost tail control at the moment where the heli made it to the left and h did not get hit.

When someone is not capable yet to really lay it down - keep some distance for your own and any bystanders safety. And - never ever cross the flight line or even get close to it on the left o right side close to the next flight station. You may see the person walking up to late and they have no clue what you are up to. Since I had exactly something like that happen and got nearly killed by a young kit that way I urge everyone - stay clear and run maneuvers away from people.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:46 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I would never stand next to someone flying hurricanes like that

I don't think anyone could have saved the heli at that point but he hit throttle hold and that's what kept anyone from getting hurt. Nothing wrong with jumping away from an out of control crashing heli that's coming your way.

The pilot is clearly skilled though a little sloppy. I don't think skill had anything to do with avoiding injury once the tail hit, unless you qualify hitting TH quickly as a skill. It's definitely not under any kind of control once TH was hit.

Why does it matter though? I'm glad nobody got hurt. That flying was a bit too close in my opinion.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:59 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Very skilled. He hit hold quickly and kept the failure very contained. He also kept his composure through the failure.

Guy flys like Andrew Merlino. :-)
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Old 04-10-2017, 05:00 PM   #19 (permalink)
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A bit of both for sure.

He did the right thing when it went wrong... but when things go wrong like that you're relying on a bit of luck that nothing wild and crazy happens. I guess that's true in all failures but as we all know the more distance between you and the failure the better chance it'll be harmless.

It looks like either a fun fly or a competition so the crowd would likely be a bit further from the heli than he was.
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Old 04-10-2017, 05:42 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheSnap View Post
Very skilled. He hit hold quickly and kept the failure very contained. He also kept his composure through the failure.

Guy flys like Andrew Merlino. :-)
You read my mind on the pilot!! Hell of a pilot IMO
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