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Old 04-12-2017, 02:51 PM   #61 (permalink)
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It's skill. But I think the skill is more in knowing when to dump it. I bet if that happened another 15 feet out, he attempts to save it.

For those that are saying it takes no skill to dump a heli you are wrong. Yes, if you're hovering you just press down and you dumped it. In the middle of a piro flip for example hitting collective down at the wrong moment could be a wrong input.

As for the fast hurricanes, I'm not a fan of them, and when i do them I'm ways away from myself. I don't need to feel the wind. I learned a lot from my blades ejecting from my x3 once. The heli was far away, the blades landed about 250 feet away from each other. There is a lot of potential energy in our helis. Ever since that happened I've started flying further away. I still let my x3 get close sometimes. But all my bigger stuff I fly it further out.
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Old 04-12-2017, 02:53 PM   #62 (permalink)
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We all make choices. That pilot chose to fly in a way that I consider unsafe. Ego has maimed or killed a good many people in the history of our civilization.

If I was at the field with a pilot flying like that, I would stand back behind a fence or near a solid structure. Period. It is not worth the risk. Face it guys, pro heli pilots are not superhuman. They make mistakes like everyone else. I certainly hope he never hurts himself, or, worse yet, injures one of his trusting fans.

Just like IRCHA last year. You couldn't have paid me to sit in the stands at the center stage. I was there before the incident, so that had no impact on my decision.

We like to use analogies like driving a car, using power tools, etc. You either respect them or eventually pay the consequences. Helis are basically a big flying power tool without any of the guards in place.

Like I said, we make choices. My choice is to have enough distance between me and a flying heli to allow me sufficient reaction time. Call me a wuss. I don't care. I will live a more cautious life, because my wife and kids love me and need me.
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Old 04-12-2017, 02:57 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chigoe View Post
You should all take up knitting......of course the conversation would be how sharp the needles are and if pointed in the right direction could go though an eye and into your brain.

You ever notice you can undo your lap belt, open the door and hop out onto the freeway.

And those cars coming the other way ... wow I had one and then another and another pass me 6 feet away at 100mph closing speeds. Better stop driving.

Or maybe stuff your nose into a 110v wall socket? Better turn off the power.

Your conversations about the deadly RC helis are sad.
Knitting is my other hobby.......
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Old 04-12-2017, 04:30 PM   #64 (permalink)
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I think it'd a bit of both luck and skill for a pilot to get to his level of flying he has dump helis more than he can count and so has also gained the skills need to do what is nesesary dump an heli properly

What I can't understand about this hobby is when an pilot with his skills fly the way he does it dangers and unespetible but when a fix wing pilot prop hanging a 150+ CC plane with the pilot holding the rudder or scrapping the ground with the rudder every one is wow amazing what skill he has but that plane could have a failure and flip it selve around into the pilot or spectators or a turbine jet flying low at 400 km and its wow or bunch of people shooting planes with paint ball gun and thsee plane crashing in between the lot it okay and a lot of fun but a plane could hit one of them on the head and kill them .

A race car driver or rally driver is pushing his machine and skills to the limit no one tell's him to slow down his going to kill him selve or the spectator not to stand so close the the rally car's flying past at 200kmh + past them so way the screaming and shouting about a heli pilots
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Old 04-12-2017, 04:43 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chigoe View Post
You should all take up knitting......of course the conversation would be how sharp the needles are and if pointed in the right direction could go though an eye and into your brain.


Not sure if you are serious, honestly, the difference between knitting and flying a 700 size electric helicopter at that proximity is so obvious I'm struggling to even conceptualize the thought process that ties these things together. I get avoiding knee jerk reactions, but I'd rather we discuss this out here than having some sort of authorities decide they need to legislate because you think someone should have the "right" to fly however they want, regardless of the consequences. News flash, if you are at an event... you don't have that right. You RESPECT the flight line and everyone there. If you can't show that respect there is a major problem, and it's not with the safety police.


You ever notice you can undo your lap belt, open the door and hop out onto the freeway.


What happens when you are the guy following the idiot who jumps out of the car on the freeway and run them over? Now you are involved in that idiot's decision. You get to live with the fact that you ran someone over.


This may be the most selfish thing I ever say, but it is true and I imagine true for a great many of you out there whether you are comfortable with the thought or not: After emergency reaction, after the shock and sadness, my long-term takeaway from another pilot hitting themselves with their own helicopter in front of me would most likely be anger. Anger that someone else's poor decision making would put me in that situation that I would have to witness something so brutal.


And those cars coming the other way ... wow I had one and then another and another pass me 6 feet away at 100mph closing speeds. Better stop driving.



Crossing the flightline like this pilot did is more akin to driving in the wrong lane than it is the normal risk of the daily commute, if we must pander to this ridiculous analogy.

Or maybe stuff your nose into a 110v wall socket? Better turn off the power.

Your conversations about the deadly RC helis are sad.

Agreed.
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Old 04-12-2017, 07:08 PM   #66 (permalink)
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No witch hunt.

I won't fight about whether he crossed the flight line, I was not there. It appears that it happened from the perspective in the video but I am willing to let that go.

Everyone's assement of risk is different. The thing that frustrates me is not the flying demonstrated in the video, but the attitude that it is up to the pilot whether he wants to create dangerous conditions for themselves and others or not.
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Old 04-12-2017, 07:19 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by OnTheSnap View Post
Agree. One of the best pilots in the world. And a very very smart guy.
I am actually confused as to why criticsm. Regardless of whether I actually enjoy head banging 3D or not I did think the whole point was about the skill, the shock, the skill, the horror and the awe to be honest.

Maybe Jonas will make a new Rotor Heads video including a section on overly dangerous or not as the case maybe 3D pilots.
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Old 04-12-2017, 08:12 PM   #68 (permalink)
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What I found funny -> the OP made sure to pixel out the pilot while the video is clear on Facebook.

So I watched it on FB and actually tuned up volume a bit. First of all looks like a windy day which explains some of the maneuvers outcome. With the conditions I think Andrew did just fine.
Camera angle does make the heli look like coming behind flight line at the moment where its getting off the the camera view on the left. Well it was close to flight line but possibly not behind it and most likely wind did do it part to push it towards the flight line.

The only real thing here is the crash. Andrew unfortunate did hit the ground with tail hard but responded correct turning it off. Lucky still because the heli did move a bit towards his left. Anyone - even the most skilled once are simply lucky when the heli that close des not come towards them. Good reaction nevertheless.

for the OP -> when the video is on a public platform such as Facebook unpixeled - why making a big deal out of it - many see it there anyway and actually most likely more then here. Also posting some of the pictures clearing up the situation for real would have helped.
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Old 04-12-2017, 08:29 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Is being a highly skilled and excellent pilot also involve making good enough choices as to not hurt or maim others around you? Does it also involve knowing mechanical failures happen out of their control and most RC airfields take this in to account with the flight line setup and following AMA rules?.....my .02$

.
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:44 PM   #70 (permalink)
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I think we should ban all smack flying on the deck....


it will eliminate the chances of a tail strike on the gound
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:57 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Red face Well : Maybe theirs a Lesson and Not a TEST

He Broke his Helicopter Toy.

He Got to take home sack of stuff.

Ever Since ?? He looks at a Box of Broken Stuff waiting for the Delivery man.

Then Looking at his Credit Karma -


What was the Lesson ??? That was Stupid - I broke It and it was $$$$$ & I almost
quisinarted myself.
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:14 AM   #72 (permalink)
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You're asking why I censored the dude out? Simple. Because:

1. I still see a horribly unsafe flight in that video and didn't want to taint the pilot's name, especially since I don't know him personally and don't need more enemies than I already have. No one deserves to be exposed like that, so I decided to censor him out. Additionally, in case the OP of the video decided to take it off of fb, it could stay on here as an example of what not to do with an rc heli without exposing the pilot in any way. Obviously some people were smart enough to post names, so thank them for ruining that plan for me. So especially Warren, don't waste your breath on your idea of me making lists about who is a safe pilot or not. I never mentioned the pilot's name in the first place, and I'm still not going to.

2. After I commented on facebook that this dude's lucky to be alive, his friends came jumping at me, accusing me of witch hunting and trying to convince me that not hitting anyone was skill rather than luck, using absolutely brain dead reasoning such as "He's such a nice guy, therefore it obviously was skill!" As this thread by now contains enough information to find the original video, go there, read the comments and be amazed how deluded people can be. I simply wanted to gather more, unbiased opinions so I did exactly what I did.

So yeah. Don't accuse me of witch hunting. Accuse me of making sure that I'm not insane and that I'm not the only one thinking that this had nothing to do with skill.

I'm not saying ban all smack flying. I'm saying keep a reasonable distance when doing so. A distance that allows you to take action before the helicopter reaches you or anyone else in case of a failure. Be safe when operating helicopters.

We must not forget the tragic death of Roman Pirozek. It's sad that it apparently has to take another accident like that to bring safety back into people's minds.
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Old 04-13-2017, 03:10 AM   #73 (permalink)
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True true, but at the same time I'd more expect the next incident to come from a semi-competent pilot out-flying his skill levels than from a pro flying like that the difference is that a semi-competent pilot would probably not be flying a 700 at that head speed.
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Old 04-13-2017, 04:09 AM   #74 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etherbatxx View Post
or self level
The thought that rescue or self level is the answer is quite dangerous. When an incident happens hit TH faster than you can think of what else to do!

I agree 200-300ms reaction time as suggested. Time to think then hit TH at least 500ms to 1 second. Two problems, first, hitting TH one second later may be too late and ducking will be the reaction if already going at you, then it may be lights out for those behind you. Immediately hitting rescue or self level only covers lost tail control and not other control losses which can mean full collective sending heli even faster at you or others!

Yes, one can fly further away, slower and smaller helis and this will allow the luxury of more time to decide what to do. However, I focus on only one reaction for emergencies, TH, in order that the motion of the heli and energy in the blades will be reducing as soon as possible. Worst case you're practicing an unplanned auto

I still have rescue/self level which can be activated in the situation where orientation is an issue and there is time due to flight speed and path.

At the risk of being a broken record, if the heli responds in an unexpected manner TH should be your only go to!
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Old 04-13-2017, 07:42 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Jonas,

I was certainly not suggesting you name names. More of a general why and how oppinion type section.

I do not agree with you. If people want to go to shows and see people perform head banging 3D. Then they should be allowed to. Its up to the event officials to keep the audience at a safe distance.

I thought you might give me credit for a new show idea.

Although I admit my comment was a little snarky.
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Old 04-13-2017, 07:46 AM   #76 (permalink)
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Oh and personally I have seen some more enjoyable videos from OnTheSnap and yourself than that particular video in question. So there you go.
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:10 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cycled View Post
True true, but at the same time I'd more expect the next incident to come from a semi-competent pilot out-flying his skill levels than from a pro flying like that the difference is that a semi-competent pilot would probably not be flying a 700 at that head speed.
Risk is the combination of two factors: probability and harmfulness
  • A semicompetent pilot will crash more often and repair the heli.
  • A pro pilot used to fly that close hurricanes might crash once in his life and never again r.i.p.
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:53 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by im4711 View Post
What I found funny -> the OP made sure to pixel out the pilot while the video is clear on Facebook.

So I watched it on FB and actually tuned up volume a bit. First of all looks like a windy day which explains some of the maneuvers outcome. With the conditions I think Andrew did just fine.
Camera angle does make the heli look like coming behind flight line at the moment where its getting off the the camera view on the left. Well it was close to flight line but possibly not behind it and most likely wind did do it part to push it towards the flight line.

The only real thing here is the crash. Andrew unfortunate did hit the ground with tail hard but responded correct turning it off. Lucky still because the heli did move a bit towards his left. Anyone - even the most skilled once are simply lucky when the heli that close des not come towards them. Good reaction nevertheless.

for the OP -> when the video is on a public platform such as Facebook unpixeled - why making a big deal out of it - many see it there anyway and actually most likely more then here. Also posting some of the pictures clearing up the situation for real would have helped.
Do you have a link for FB? Would like to see pilots reaction after crash.
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Old 04-13-2017, 09:26 AM   #79 (permalink)
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i was there and i missed this crash , the guy is a skilled pilot for sure , but shows what can happen , i dont think this is anything close to the one at ircha , pilot and spotter are at least 100 ft away from anyone else ..
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Old 04-13-2017, 10:14 AM   #80 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny31297 View Post
You're asking why I censored the dude out? Simple. Because:

1. I still see a horribly unsafe flight in that video and didn't want to taint the pilot's name, especially since I don't know him personally and don't need more enemies than I already have. No one deserves to be exposed like that, so I decided to censor him out. Additionally, in case the OP of the video decided to take it off of fb, it could stay on here as an example of what not to do with an rc heli without exposing the pilot in any way. Obviously some people were smart enough to post names, so thank them for ruining that plan for me. So especially Warren, don't waste your breath on your idea of me making lists about who is a safe pilot or not. I never mentioned the pilot's name in the first place, and I'm still not going to.

2. After I commented on facebook that this dude's lucky to be alive, his friends came jumping at me, accusing me of witch hunting and trying to convince me that not hitting anyone was skill rather than luck, using absolutely brain dead reasoning such as "He's such a nice guy, therefore it obviously was skill!" As this thread by now contains enough information to find the original video, go there, read the comments and be amazed how deluded people can be. I simply wanted to gather more, unbiased opinions so I did exactly what I did.

So yeah. Don't accuse me of witch hunting. Accuse me of making sure that I'm not insane and that I'm not the only one thinking that this had nothing to do with skill.

I'm not saying ban all smack flying. I'm saying keep a reasonable distance when doing so. A distance that allows you to take action before the helicopter reaches you or anyone else in case of a failure. Be safe when operating helicopters.

We must not forget the tragic death of Roman Pirozek. It's sad that it apparently has to take another accident like that to bring safety back into people's minds.

Big deal you censored it on HF... most of us follow the same people on FB, know exactly who it is and saw your comments. Lets not forget the fact that a lot of us can recognize most "pro" pilots by the heli and flight style.

Do I think the flight was unsafe? Yup. Were the hurricanes too close for my comfort? Yup. Top fuel drag racing is unsafe too, we all know the risks. To say it was pure luck is ridiculous. How can you honestly say skill had nothing to do with it? Absurd imo. He clearly dumped it and I've seen it dumped the same way many times by other high level pilots. If you want to say he was "lucky" that he was skilled enough to dump it fine.

Btw I don't know the guy and I'm certainly no "fanboy". It seems like you're grandstanding a bit. I mean whats the point in making this post? You feel like a tool on FB so you come here to rally the troops or something? I normally like your posts/videos quite a bit but this is kind of weak.
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